RMAF Future; need opinions

Subangite

New Member
RMAF Gripens?

I read an old BBC news article from 2002 that suggested the SAAB Gripen was being evaluated by Malaysia? Is this true? What future does the Gripen have for the RMAF?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1944476.stm

"Saab and BAE, a 35% shareholder and joint venture partner for Gripen export sales, have already secured sales in South Africa and Hungary and are waiting decisions from Poland, Austria and Malaysia."


I know its an old article and times have changed, I don't think now BAE is shareholder in the project, Poland has gone with F16's, Austria with Eurofighters and Hungary has actually recieved Gripens this year. I think realistically the chances of the SAAB Gripen now being ordered by the RMAF is highly unlikely given Su-30MKM purchase but regardless of which I wasn't even aware that the Gripen had been evaluated by Malaysia, is this BBC report true?

The only report I've read about Gripens in South East Asia was that there was keen interest from the RTAF, purchasing through a barter deal of Thai agricultural products. Though this has been postponed because of the current political climate in Thailand until next year. With regards to the RMAF, was there ever any interest for the Gripen?
 

Startingengines

New Member
Well the Gripen is a spot-on replacement for the Hawks. But with the hefty price tag, i would rather go for multirole capable aircraft. The Gripen is pretty much omnirole and kind of 'light weight' as compared to the Super Hornets, SU-30 or even the F-16D.

With the SU-30, and if RMAF could train the pilots to fully utilise the capability of the aircraft, they will be formidable, at least in this region. To excel, they will have to work on getting the right people with the right mentality and skills to operate modern avionics and equipments, that will include future AWAC systems.

Its also not too bad if they could get another US system/aircraft, cuz that will bring more training exposure and opportunities for the RMAF pilots & crew to improve.

Well its all in the hands of the politicians...
 

razhar

New Member
I don't really know what the decision factor here. the rumors of SH procurement have been going for years but it's just that. once they say they've cancelled the Gong Kedak Airbase project for cost saving, then they restarted it because they found out that every other airbases in Peninsular Malaysia already reach its expansion limits. I believe malaysia are still experimenting with several different type of aircraft. After a disaster with MIG-29, Malaysian government are giving Russia a second chance with SU-30MKM, warning included. Most Malaysian pilots said they enjoy flying FA-18D, and of all the combat aircrafts in RMAF, the Hornets retain the highest operational readiness. it's true that Malaysia opted for twin engines for redundancy and reliability since the fighters were expected to patrol the offshore EEZ and oil platforms, plus the long stretch of water separating east and west Malaysia. if we don't consider that, we've bought an F-16s already. Actually RMAF have around 2-4 RF-5E, not just one. there's suppose to be a spares problem but i thought they solve that already. The RF-5E was recently being upgraded with new camera and avionics. i don't think RMAF are willing to part with this valueble tac recon assets. but, again, who knows...

what do u mean? 'disaster'? in terms of what?:unknown
 

hydraulic

New Member
I think the word disaster is reffering to a plane crash (MIG 29).When Mig 29N joined RMAF in the 90's,It is a value buy aircraft and with the politic situation during that period it is consider a good move.
 

hydraulic

New Member
If such, the word should be better than disaster.I totally disagree.After sometime in RMAF, some credit should be given to the Migs and for the next purchase pls get a reaaally good plane.Try to get the right role for each type of aircraft.
 

qwerty223

New Member
F/A-18 Plan Still Alive?!

hey guys, thought you all would be interested in this:
Malaysia’s Long Wait for Super Hornets Continues
By JASBIR SINGH, KUALA LUMPUR
Posted 01/15/07 13:55


One of the most watched modernization programs in Malaysia — the proposed replacement of the Royal Malaysian Air Force F/A-18D Hornet fighter jets with the newer F/A-18F Super Hornets — remains in limbo because of other funding priorities, including adding new capabilities for the Navy and Army.
Malaysia has had its eight F/A-18Ds since 1997, and began discussions with Boeing about six years ago on acquiring F/A-18Fs, yet the talks have been fruitless.

The program remains stuck on the Air Force’s wish list due to funding pressures caused by the armed forces’ multibillion-dollar equipment renewal program implemented over the past few years. When asked earlier this year, the now-retired Air Force chief, Gen. Nik Ismail Nik Mohamed, said the service was committed to acquiring the Super Hornet, but only when funding becomes available.

A current cost estimate for the potential Super Hornet buy is not available. However, the government already has spent more than 15 billion Malaysian ringgit ($4.3 billion) this decade on major equipment purchases, and has allocated a total of 17 billion ringgit in its current five-year development plan for defense procurement.

During this time, the Malaysian government signed up to purchase, among other equipment, 48 PT-91M tanks from Poland’s Bumar Group to set up a tank division, two new Scorpene and one used Agosta 90 submarines, a squadron of Su-30MkM fighter jets from Russia and 11 Agusta A-109 light observation helicopters.

The submarine deal was worth 3.5 billion ringgit, while the tanks and associated equipment cost about $275 million. The A-109 helicopters were purchased for about $70 million, and the Su-30MkM deal was worth about $900 million.

The A-109 helicopters have entered into service and tank deliveries will begin this year.

Deliveries of 18 Su-30MkM multirole fighters will begin this year, to coincide with the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition in December. The remaining aircraft will enter into service over the next two years. Preparations also are being made to receive the submarines from France in 2009.

These investments do not include money spent on modernizing the armed forces as a whole, or long-overdue improvements to infrastructure.
Aside from having to pay for the new equipment, the Malaysian Armed Forces also have incurred large costs associated with setting up the infrastructure for these new assets.

The military has never operated tanks or submarines, and is spending large sums to provide the training and infrastructure needed to support the services.

Similarly, the Air Force has had to spend money to modernize an airbase to house the Su-30MkMs, put up the necessary supporting infrastructure, and train personnel to operate and support the aircraft.
It appears that the rising costs involved in acquiring and operating these three major assets is sinking other modernization programs, Defence Ministry and Air Force sources said.

For the Air Force, the recent multimillion-dollar expenditure to overhaul MiG-29N fighters and purchase eight Aermacchi MB-339CDs and 10 PC-7 MkII Turbo Trainer Aircraft is stretching its budget, the source said.

The Aermacchi and PC-7 trainers have been purchased to meet urgent Air Force needs to train more pilots and replace aircraft lost to crashes. Several smaller acquisition programs related to the Su-30MkM purchase are still pending and need funding allocations.

There also have been media reports that the Air Force will mothball its MiG-29N fleet to free fighter pilots to operate the Su-30MkMs. However, Defense Minister Najib Razak has denied that the MiG-29s will be retired and said additional pilots will be trained to meet requirements.

According to Air Force sources, the F/A-18D Hornet has served well and the service is committed to upgrading the aircraft to the newer versions.
There are plans to modernize the current fleet, pending funding availability. Until then, and the full induction of the Su-30MkM into the force, the Hornets will remain the main front-line aircraft for the Air Force.

However, new money to acquire the Super Hornets may come by the end of the decade at the earliest, the ministry and service sources said.

When funding to acquire the aircraft becomes available, the service will have to enter into fresh negotiations with Boeing, further delaying the acquisition of the replacement aircraft.

Faced with this scenario, the Air Force must move toward modernizing some aspects of the Hornets to maintain that capability. There also is interest in achieving interoperability with the Su-30MkMs and basic network-centric capability.

The Air Force wants to ensure that the two aircraft are able to talk to each other and exchange data. The plan is to install data links on board the Su-30MkM to allow it to communicate with other aircraft.

E-mail: [email protected]
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2476235&C=airwar

at least we know whats going on with the Mig retire rumor. Those birds are being overhaul and official denied of retirement!!! :)
 

hydraulic

New Member
Good news indeed:)

From i have heard that the F-5E and the Migs have been upgraded recently.Can I get some info on system that has been upgraded?Did one of RMAF crashed after the overhaul?Did the RMAF pilots were happier with the new radar for F-5E
 

kaybee

New Member
i need to seek ur explanation for ur statement-mig29,is the bad choice...would u tell us why?:D :p:
I think the disaster was referring to the process and experience that RMAF had gone thru in purchasing MiG-29. It was the first time we bought a major fighter plane from Russia and we did not get the version that we want because of some misunderstanding or someone screwed-up. RMAF have to spend more $$ in upgrades and getting spare parts from the Russian has also been a nightmare. Since then we've learnt how to deal with Russian better and they have also improved their spare part sales management by allowing individual company to sell directly to customer rather than thru a central body. The Russian also setup a company, Rosobonexport, to handle all the foreign military sales with better focus and efficiency.
 

renjer

New Member
at least we know whats going on with the Mig retire rumor. Those birds are being overhaul and official denied of retirement!!! :)
Here's some interesting reading. I cannot vouch for the reliability of the source (with apologies to Anayalo if I am in the wrong). I couldn't find the article on Bernama's official site.

Kuala Lumpur Oct 6 (Bernama) : The Burma Air Force's move to buy second-hand MiG-29 planes from Malaysia has hit a roadblock. Officials say they are put off by the high price. Malaysian's quote for the MiG-29N planes is "too costly for second-hand planes that some of them have been lying in the hanger" said a senior defence official.

Malaysian had been trying to sell MiGs to Burma since the military junta showed interest in the planes after the Royal Malaysia Air Force ( RMAF ) announced that they will de-activate its Russian Aircraft Corporation (RSK) MiG MiG-29N multirole fighter aircraft fleet in 2007 to ensure enough fighter pilots are available to operate the Sukhoi Su-30MKMs that will be delivered that same year.

Burma acquired a total of ten MiG-29s from Russia, after a series of borde incidents with Thailand, in 2001. Two of these should have been MiG-29UB two-seaters. All of these aircraft were apparently "left-overs" from uncollected Iraqi order, built back in 1991 and overhauled before delivery. As delivered to Tamdaw Lay (Myanmar Air Force) the type wears this unusual disruptive camouflage pattern, similar only to that of MiG-29 in service with Bangladesh Air force. The MiG-29s are a natural upgrade to the Burmese Air Force which has 36 F-7M fighters in the arsenal as well as the trainer model the FT-7S, which is the Chinese version of the MiG-21.

http://www.bloggang.com/viewdiary.php?id=skyman&group=3&month=10-2006&date=10&blog=1
 

qwerty223

New Member
Here's some interesting reading. I cannot vouch for the reliability of the source (with apologies to Anayalo if I am in the wrong). I couldn't find the article on Bernama's official site...
erm.. I did a rough search, same as you do, at most that google only shows the few burma bloggers used that article.

and I found this
Made In Malaysia Drag Chute For RMAF MiG 29 Aircraft To Get Certification
December 06, 2005 17:02 PM

LANGKAWI, DEC 6 (Bernama) -- The Aerospace Technology Systems Corp Sdn Bhd (ATSC) has moved a step further in the maintenance of the Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) MiG 29 aircraft by taking the initiative to locally produce the drag chute for the aircraft.

Named as ATEV-29, the drag chute was jointly designed by ATSC and the RMAF team to suit the Malaysian environment and was manufactured by East Vertex Sdn Bhd in Sepang.

ATSC senior general manager operation Col (Rtd) Mohamad Selamat Bakin said the drag chute would be getting its product certification issued by the RAM Airworthiness Authority tomorrow, he told Bernama on the sidelines on Day 1 of Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace (LIMA) exhibition here Tuesday.

He said the two prototype drag chutes had undergone static, dynamic and durability tests as well as the full operational deployment tests. It had been tested in 40 landings.

Mohamad Selamat said the modular concept of the ATEV-29 drag chute was an advantage because it would facilitate the replacement of each individual module during maintenance and could reduce the cost.

The present drag chute used for RMAF MiG 29 aircraft would require replacement of the entire chute even if a certain part is faulty.

The modules of the ATEV-29 drag chute are the main chute, the pilot chute, the spring assembly and the rigging line and bag.

He said the fabric used to produce the drag chute was imported from Germany.

Mohamad Selamat said ATSC was also in the process of producing wet cell aircraft batteries for the back up DC power for the RMAF MiG 29.

The company was getting the transfer of technology from India and batteries would be manufactured by a company in Shah Alam next year, he added.

Presently the batteries are being imported from India.

ATSC was established by the Malaysian Government in 1995 under the joint venture agreement between the Minister of Finance Incorporated which holds 70 percent of the shares, the RAC MiG which is the manufacture of the aircraft (25 percent) and the Rosovoronexport which is the Russian government military export agency (five percent).

In 2002, the MOF Inc 70 percent equity was taken over by the National Aerospace and Defence Industry (NADI) under the leadership of Tan Sri Ahmad Johan, with one special share held by MOF Inc.

The company was given the task of intermediate level or the second line maintenance of the RMAF MiG 29 aircraft. The organisational or the first line maintenance is being done by the RMAF.

Currently there are 16 RMAF MiG 29 aircraft.

-- BERNAMA
Lt Kol Sunthon Juruterbang TUDM Pertama Capai 1,000 Jam Kendali MiG-29
December 09, 2005 12:32 PM

LANGKAWI, 9 Dis (Bernama) -- Pegawai Pemerintah Skuadron 12 Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia (TUDM) Lt Kol Sunthon Eh Kaue diiktiraf sebagai juruterbang pertama TUDM yang berjaya membuat penerbangan 1,000 jam mengendalikan pesawat tempur MiG-29 di negara ini.

Kejayaan anak kelahiran Tumpat, Kelantan itu bukan sahaja menjadi kebanggaan TUDM, malah diberi penghargaan oleh syarikat pengeluar pesawat itu, RAC MiG dari Rusia.

Kebolehan beliau mencatatkan masa penerbangan 1,000 jam itu juga mengatasi kemampuan juruterbang Rusia sendiri dalam mengendalikan pesawat berkenaan.

Ketika ditemui Bernama selepas menerima Anugerah Penerbangan 1,000 Jam MiG-29 di sini malam tadi, beliau menyifatkan penghargaan itu sebagai pengiktirafan kepada kemampuan angkatan tentera di negara ini.

Katanya beliau terpaksa membuat 1,400 penerbangan untuk mencapai masa 1,000 jam mengendalikan pesawat itu dan ini bukanlah sesuatu yang mudah untuk dilakukan oleh mana-mana juruterbang.

"Rusia sendiripun tidak mencapai 1,000 jam mengendalikan pesawat kebanggaan mereka itu," katanya.

Sunthon, yang pernah mencapai 500 jam penerbangan dengan pesawat yang lain sebelum ini, berkhidmat di Skuadron 19 MiG di Kuantan selama lapan tahun dan baru sahaja ditukarkan ke Skuadron 12 di Butterworth.

Beliau kini diberi kepercayaan untuk mengendalikan pesawat F5E, yang disifatkannya "lebih mudah" berbanding MiG-29.

Menurutnya sepanjang mengendalikan pesawat pantas itu, tiada sebarang kejadian mencemaskan yang dialaminya dan pengalaman mengendalikan MiG-29 amat berharga buat dirinya.

"Saya akan sentiasa rindu pada pesawat ini tetapi untuk menjadi seorang juruterbang yang baik, kita harus mampu mengendalikan apa jua jenis pesawat yang ada," katanya.

Menurutnya sejak Skuadron 19 ditubuhkan, TUDM mempunyai kira-kira 30 juruterbang yang mengendalikan pesawat MiG-29.

Beliau berharap mendapat peluang untuk mengendalikan pesawat terbaru yang bakal dibeli oleh TUDM, antaranya Sukhoi 30 (SU 30).

Selain Sunthon, dua lagi juruterbang Mejar Sebastian A. William, 34, dari Perak dan Kapt Philip Joseph Selvaraju, 33, dari Kulim, Kedah masing-masing berjaya membuat 500 jam penerbangan dengan pesawat MiG-29.

Kedua-duanya juga menerima anugerah daripada syarikat pengeluar berkenaan.
From 1st one, I feel that TUDM is putting more investment in it and 2nd one seems that TUDM is also giving a positive credit to the 29s.

But if we can sell it in a good price, and with some regulations(well you know what i mean right hope so...:) )... It is a good deal!

only doubt for the burma new is that I abit concerned about our mig Rus-M'sia contract. If there is similar "regulations" which we gona apply in our contract in burma deal, the deal wont be working at all.
 

renjer

New Member
I am sure the experience acquired from the MiG-29 drag chute technology can also be applied to the Su-30. There was also a short mention in an article sometime ago on the same company. It was about the company acquiring the skills to produce chutes for other aircraft types. I don't know how far that has gone.

And I suppose it won't hurt to keep investing in more flight hours even if there is an intention to dispose of our MiGs. After all that was what the whole story on putting them in storage was all about.

I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't found any corroboration to the story although Analayo himself is a good source.
 

renjer

New Member
I read an old BBC news article from 2002 that suggested the SAAB Gripen was being evaluated by Malaysia? Is this true? What future does the Gripen have for the RMAF?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1944476.stm

"Saab and BAE, a 35% shareholder and joint venture partner for Gripen export sales, have already secured sales in South Africa and Hungary and are waiting decisions from Poland, Austria and Malaysia."


I know its an old article and times have changed, I don't think now BAE is shareholder in the project, Poland has gone with F16's, Austria with Eurofighters and Hungary has actually recieved Gripens this year. I think realistically the chances of the SAAB Gripen now being ordered by the RMAF is highly unlikely given Su-30MKM purchase but regardless of which I wasn't even aware that the Gripen had been evaluated by Malaysia, is this BBC report true?

The only report I've read about Gripens in South East Asia was that there was keen interest from the RTAF, purchasing through a barter deal of Thai agricultural products. Though this has been postponed because of the current political climate in Thailand until next year. With regards to the RMAF, was there ever any interest for the Gripen?
I doubt anything is going to come out of that. BAE has the international marketing rights for the Gripen BTW. Something to do with Saab not being able to do so because of export restrictions under Swedish laws.
 

renjer

New Member
A319 Vip

Anybody know why the A319 was chosen rather than an additional Boeing BBJ? I assume this new VIP transport is to replace the Fokker F28 which has been in service since the 1970s.
 

qwerty223

New Member
I am sure the experience acquired from the MiG-29 drag chute technology can also be applied to the Su-30. There was also a short mention in an article sometime ago on the same company. It was about the company acquiring the skills to produce chutes for other aircraft types. I don't know how far that has gone.

And I suppose it won't hurt to keep investing in more flight hours even if there is an intention to dispose of our MiGs. After all that was what the whole story on putting them in storage was all about.

I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't found any corroboration to the story although Analayo himself is a good source.
ya.. what i meant in my post was that Najib was trying to tell the public that the Migs are kept in house because they are under overhaul progress(or maybe i suspect a secret upgrade?). And Mig-29s is known to have 20yrs lifespan. If we sell it now, we might lose air power since MkMs are not ready yet. But if we sell it after 5~10yrs, it is worthless in the market. Not only it is still being consider old model, but Mikoyan also rolling out their new and impressive Mig29Ms in a few years. Russia themselves still have a bunch of nice 2nd hand stuffs! Both new and 2nd hands from Russia will float the market by then.
 

davedogman

New Member
I doubt anything is going to come out of that. BAE has the international marketing rights for the Gripen BTW. Something to do with Saab not being able to do so because of export restrictions under Swedish laws.
Sorry but you have wrong information on this topic.

As of 1st January 2005 SAAB took over all International and domestic sales of the Gripen system. Heavily supported by the Swedish government. BAE can be called upon to support the efforts but it's all done under SAAB with Gripen International as front.

There's also no such restrictions in Swedish export laws, just guidelines and each sale is independantly evaluated by a commitee should they be in favor of Swedish interests or not. As a rule of thumb no exports of 'offensive' weapons systems to undemocratic states.

Saab also aquired Ericsson Microwave Systems during 2006 so the Erieye radars and Gripen system is now under one roof.
 

renjer

New Member
Sorry but you have wrong information on this topic.

As of 1st January 2005 SAAB took over all International and domestic sales of the Gripen system. Heavily supported by the Swedish government. BAE can be called upon to support the efforts but it's all done under SAAB with Gripen International as front.

There's also no such restrictions in Swedish export laws, just guidelines and each sale is independantly evaluated by a commitee should they be in favor of Swedish interests or not. As a rule of thumb no exports of 'offensive' weapons systems to undemocratic states.

Saab also aquired Ericsson Microwave Systems during 2006 so the Erieye radars and Gripen system is now under one roof.
Nothing to be sorry about. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
 
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