Reinstitute US Pershing 2 for use vs A2/AD?

[Waylander]

As in the thread about US prompt global strike capabilities I have my doubts about how often one really needs such a capability.

I have huge doubts about the decision making process being slim and fast enough to take advantage of the faster flight time of a ship or shore born ballistic missile. At least I hope that deciding wether to fire onto some foreign countries soil is not a matter of minutes within the US command structure.

If it not about unexpected targets of opportunity one can have a B-1 loitering near by with two extra fuel tanks and 8 JASSMs in it's bomb bays. I imagine this should be good enough for most scenarios.

 

[CB90]

As in the thread about US prompt global strike capabilities I have my doubts about how often one really needs such a capability.

I have huge doubts about the decision making process being slim and fast enough to take advantage of the faster flight time of a ship or shore born ballistic missile. At least I hope that deciding wether to fire onto some foreign countries soil is not a matter of minutes within the US command structure.

If it not about unexpected targets of opportunity one can have a B-1 loitering near by with two extra fuel tanks and 8 JASSMs in it's bomb bays. I imagine this should be good enough for most scenarios.

Yes and no.

I wouldn't expect the use of a weapons into "sovereign" airspace to be a matter of minutes. However, I would see it as:
A) greatly reducing the window of opportunity for the HVT to relocate
B) being used for land support fires, particularly high value mobile targets (TELs for example)
In the first, more strategic application, odds are the operation is approved far ahead of time, and the increased speed of response simply improves the odds of success.

Older SMs weren't long ranged enough that I would think it really made a difference, but modifying extended range variants is probably worth looking into. Not a whole lot of trade space to play around with for the warhead though.

 

[Volkodav]

An SM1 or 2 ER based missile could probably be used to good effect when called in by a JTAC and other methods as the GPS Guided M30 MRLS rocket and MGM-140 ATACMS are currently used. A longer reach weapon would / could be used the same way.

I agree TELs are a good example, i.e. DF-21 launchers identified by drones and satellites. Missile defence is all well and good in the terminal phase but cooking the things before they are fired is even better, once the first IRBM has been launched all remaining TELS become legitimate targets and it takes a far smaller warhead to squash a TEL than it does to sink or incapacitate a carrier.

 

[Pusser01]

As a side question how would a reinstituted GAM-87 Skybolt air launched ballistic missile fitted with a conventional warhead and a modern guidance system fare in today's environment? I imagine it would be harder to intercept compared to a cruise missile.
Totally impractical I know due to the size of the thing, but just interested in the possibility
Cheers

 

[Ranger25]

As a side question how would a reinstituted GAM-87 Skybolt air launched ballistic missile fitted with a conventional warhead and a modern guidance system fare in today's environment? I imagine it would be harder to intercept compared to a cruise missile.
Totally impractical I know due to the size of the thing, but just interested in the possibility
Cheers

I think it would accomplish the same idea of long range SEAD without an aircrew I don't see any real range advantages though. I think the GLCM may be more prone to intercept than a P2 especially now that Putin has approved S400s to the PLA.

 

[the concerned]

Surely when they perfect the rail gun technology and start to miniaturise the power supply that's where your prompt strike will come from. Maybe some future aerial platform with a sort of rail gun on it. Right asking the experts on here if you had a platform flying at say 40,000 ft what range could you get out of a rail gun then.(when I was younger I always thought that if you could combine the b-1b with a anti radiation version of the phoenix missile that would have been a good capability or a stand off jammer version of the supersonic business jet they were considering.)

 

[Waylander]

I have my doubts about anyones ability to find Chinas TELs which are hidden somewhere on their coast. It's not like the US was very successfull finding TELs in their last wars...

As for Pershings being less vulnerable to a modern IADS. Others are much better at evaluating this but as far as I know S-400 comes with anti ballistic missile capabilities. As long as they are detected IRBMs are vulnerable to modern theater defense SAM systems. Penetration aids and sheer volume of fire is a solution though...

 

[Strategerist]

US can't do anything ground launched with a range between 500 and 5500 km because of the INF treaty.

Bans ballistic or cruise, arguably there is a legalistic loophole parsing the treaty language for a boost-glide profile but I assure you the US goes beyond the letter of the law in treaty adherence and would never try to exploit it.

Any Conventional Prompt Strike weapon is going to be a new missile with a boost glide profile, with the most likely fielding option being on the Virginia Payload Module submarine.

 

[My2Cents]

Bans ballistic or cruise, arguably there is a legalistic loophole parsing the treaty language for a boost-glide profile but I assure you the US goes beyond the letter of the law in treaty adherence and would never try to exploit it.

Any Conventional Prompt Strike weapon is going to be a new missile with a boost glide profile, with the most likely fielding option being on the Virginia Payload Module submarine.

Somehow I don't see a boost-glide profile as being very survivable against modern anti-missile systems. Just too obvious and too predictable.

Still, if the glide portion is super stealthy it just might work.

 

[colay]

Somehow I don't see a boost-glide profile as being very survivable against modern anti-missile systems. Just too obvious and too predictable.

Still, if the glide portion is super stealthy it just might work.

Gliding at hypersonic speeds will stress defensive systems.

 

[Volkodav]

Do the similarities between the Pershing II and DF-21 strike anyone as interesting? Very similar missiles but one intended to take out hardened command posts with a guided nuclear warhead and the other large naval vessels with a guided conventional warhead. Is DF-21 a ripoff of a much older US system?

 

[CB90]

I have my doubts about anyones ability to find Chinas TELs which are hidden somewhere on their coast. It's not like the US was very successfull finding TELs in their last wars...

As for Pershings being less vulnerable to a modern IADS. Others are much better at evaluating this but as far as I know S-400 comes with anti ballistic missile capabilities. As long as they are detected IRBMs are vulnerable to modern theater defense SAM systems. Penetration aids and sheer volume of fire is a solution though...

Very valid point on ISR requirement to find hard targets like TELs. Don't rightly know if the technology is really caught up. That said, a hypersonic weapon still offers plenty of value in allowing each individual strike missile (in limited magazines) to have a high chance of striking high value targets (airfields, ships in port, etc), particularly against a modern IADS. That and if you anticipate a narrow window of opportunity to strike the target due to limited time for eyes on, having an option to hit promptly is a nice one to have.

 

[Ranger25]

Do the similarities between the Pershing II and DF-21 strike anyone as interesting? Very similar missiles but one intended to take out hardened command posts with a guided nuclear warhead and the other large naval vessels with a guided conventional warhead. Is DF-21 a ripoff of a much older US system?

The similarities in Range and possible CEP do seem a bit uncanny. Both have a range of 1700km. Both mobile launchers.

Given the PLA's penchant for stealing US tech I think it makes sense

I still like the idea of using a reconstituted P2 would be a great SEAD option