Why isn't she selling? Her sellers say "You can talk about fourth-generation or fifth-generation aircraft all you want, but what really matters is that Rafale is one full generation ahead of all other aircraft." Considering she is to be 1/3 cheaper than her nearest rival and the fact she has an ECM package second to none why is she not being grabbed off the shelves?
Rafale?
- Thread starter Big-E
- Start date
Might it be a case of:Big-E said:
'one careful lady owner'
Are you saying 1/3 cheaper than Eurofighter as well? I find costing to be very confusing as what is included in one cost won't be included in another. Like comparing apples and oranges. Considering that the Rafale was flying well ahead of the EF, the RAF have had an operational squadron since 1 April (maybe a April fools joke)! And this French Squadron has only half it’s Rafale’s, with the next one operational in 2008.
Her sellers also say that in Asia when Rafale was in competition for the next gen fighters of the RoKAF and the RSAF, American political clout made Rafale loose against the F-15. That said, they did "out preform" the Eurofighter during trials and selection, as the Eurofighther got eliminated first, before the Rafale.Big-E said:
I don't know, maybe there's hope for her yet. Perhaps India or Pakistan might be interested?? Though maybe unlikely, Pakistan having recently ordered more F16's and India ordering a large quantity of Su-30MKI.
I think Rafale is suffering from the Swedish problem. For many years, Sweden built great fighters nobody would buy (of those the Swedish would sell to - they were a bit fussy about that). A major problem was that Sweden had an integrated air defence system, & their fighters were designed to work within it. To export them, they had to convince potential buyers that the plane could be taken outside the environment it was designed to work within & still succeed, or build a special export version.
Rafale has a similar problem. The PESA RBE.2 has many of the desirable characteristics of an AESA, but less range than the mechanically scanned RDY-2. For the MN & the AdlA that is bearable, as they expect to use them only in an integrated environment, with AEW etc., are confident in their skill in using the whole package. AEW gives the detection range RBE.2 lacks, & they think the other characteristics are desirable enough to make up for the deficiencies. It was a compromise made with open eyes, to suit their own assets & modus operandi. But foreign buyers don't like it.
It's also been criticised for being underpowered relative to the competition.
Rafale has a similar problem. The PESA RBE.2 has many of the desirable characteristics of an AESA, but less range than the mechanically scanned RDY-2. For the MN & the AdlA that is bearable, as they expect to use them only in an integrated environment, with AEW etc., are confident in their skill in using the whole package. AEW gives the detection range RBE.2 lacks, & they think the other characteristics are desirable enough to make up for the deficiencies. It was a compromise made with open eyes, to suit their own assets & modus operandi. But foreign buyers don't like it.
It's also been criticised for being underpowered relative to the competition.
give the raf some time, the french tend to be more felexible in pricing than any other sellers, they will keep dropping the cost until someone bites, the mirage is a good example, they sold the fighter at any price as long as it would win foreign sales. If selling the plane suited french foreign policy Dassault were able to undercut any compeditor. Actual economics were the last thing considered.
I think the Mirage 2000 is one of the main problems.
There are not many countrys which are able to buy planes like latest F-teens, EF or Rafale.
A Mirage 2000 with the latest gadgets in it is still a good plane for most countrys.
The Rafale sellers argument with the price but I as a buyer would also think that buying the cheaper Mirage 2000 is not a dumb idea instead of the Rafale in lesser numbers.
There are not many countrys which are able to buy planes like latest F-teens, EF or Rafale.
A Mirage 2000 with the latest gadgets in it is still a good plane for most countrys.
The Rafale sellers argument with the price but I as a buyer would also think that buying the cheaper Mirage 2000 is not a dumb idea instead of the Rafale in lesser numbers.
I seem to recall seeing a comparison which put the M2K at 70-80% of rafales capability at half to 2/3rds the cost.Waylander said:
contedicavour
New Member
Talks are still going on for a sale of 40 Rafale to Algeria. However the latest MIG-29s are likely to be bought first, especially as Algeria already operates older -29s.
I think the Rafale's key problem today is that it took even longer than the Eurofighter Typhoon to become operational. The first dozen entered service in the Air Force only last week. The Navy has operated a dozen for 2 years now, but only in air-to-air configuration to replace the obsolete Crusaders.
No major customer is likely to buy the Rafale until it has become completely operational in sufficient numbers in its final air-to-air and air-to-ground configuration, let's say in 1 or 2 years' time.
It could then start its international career by replacing the oldest Mirage 2000s (Greece, UAE, Peru, India).
cheers
I think the Rafale's key problem today is that it took even longer than the Eurofighter Typhoon to become operational. The first dozen entered service in the Air Force only last week. The Navy has operated a dozen for 2 years now, but only in air-to-air configuration to replace the obsolete Crusaders.
No major customer is likely to buy the Rafale until it has become completely operational in sufficient numbers in its final air-to-air and air-to-ground configuration, let's say in 1 or 2 years' time.
It could then start its international career by replacing the oldest Mirage 2000s (Greece, UAE, Peru, India).
cheers
I'm sure this has been said in a hundred different threads, but how about exploring the possibilty of buying used aircraft carriers or even see if we can buy some CVFs and reactivate the FAA's fixed-wing capability with the Rafale? I know there alot of people like the F-35B/IZAR option, but the Rafale would be much cheaper. IMHO, the decision not to replace the Majestic Class is the worst defence decision in Australia's history.
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A recent Flight International article put the Rafale's full unit cost at 130mn USD; including required infrastructure, training and support. That is a hefty price tag; but its a new generation fighter, and a lot of the countries who bought or could buy Mirage 2000, MiG-29, F-16s, etc, would find inducting such a fighter expensive. But I'm quite optimistic about Rafale; and in the 2010s it should be able to secure some good orders.
Ahhh, no. The Eurofighter was eliminated because Singapore wanted Tranche 2 standard aircraft to be delivered from 2008, something which Eurofighter could not achieve. Only the Rafale and F-15SG could meet that timetable.Subangite said:
Actually, this is also inaccurate. Development of the Rafale commenced after the French pulled out of the Eurofighter program in 1985, after the EAP aircraft had flown. You rightly say that the French Navy jets are in service, but they preceeded the Italian Air Force standing up of its first operational (air-to-air only) unit for the Winter Olympics. All other 'operational' Eurofighter units and only T&E or OCU/OTU units.contedicavour said:
Magoo
I heard that the german navy is considering to invest into the future french-british aircraft carrier program to have a own Rafale squadron onboard a french carrier.
That sounds so weird, aircraft from 2 different fleets and nations on one carrier, that i can't really believe it, but since it was a gouvernment politician who mentioned this on TV.......
That sounds so weird, aircraft from 2 different fleets and nations on one carrier, that i can't really believe it, but since it was a gouvernment politician who mentioned this on TV.......
Ich glaub das war der verteidigungspolitische Sprecher der SPD. Weiß den Namen gerade nicht mehr.Waylander said:Which politician? Green party?
I think it was the defence secretary (hope that is the right translation) of the social democrats, one of the two gouverning coalition parties.