Pirates

[type 209]

this is a thread for discussing all aspects of piracy. where are they? what ships do they have? what sort of weapons? what are there tactics?

 

[noovie]

what sort of weapons?

Cannons,Parrots,Helper Monkeys

and I'am pretty sure if you piffed a wooden leg hard enough you could
do some damage. nfloorl:

 

[Alswelk]

Are we talking 'classical' pirates, or referring to the recent flair-up of piracy occuring near Somalia?

 

[Rich]

Coast of Africa and South China sea mostly. Anything that floats. Mostly small arms.

 

[Alswelk]

Its the 'mostly' that worries me, and the ominous pirate 'mother-ship' that has been sighted. The part that I find troubling is that the attacks seem to be well organized, and near a region where older actual military vessels are sent to be broken. Although this would certainly not be a threat to, say, US vessels, the area in question has a great deal of merchant traffic that is definetly threatened.

 

[type 209]

we are talking about modern pirates. Alswelk have you heard of this pirate "mother ship" or are you just saying that you think that there could be one.

 

[Alswelk]

There are a number of news articles on CNN.com relating to an increase in piracy off Somalia. Several of them refer to a "mother-ship". I find it ominous.

 

[pepsi]

Its kind of funny reading about pirates, i think the word has a kind of stereotype that makes everyone suddenly think of the pirate with bird on shoulder, hook for hand, etc

But it does happen quite a lot apparently, there was that cruise ship thing recently off Africa as people have already menitioned, and i think similar things happen quite a lot but not on that scale, e.g. smaller private boats rather than cruiseliners

 

[noovie]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17920613-13762,00.html

see I told you wooden legs could be dangerous

 

[turin]

The suspected mothership was linked to the incident off the coast of Somalia, when pirates in a small boat attacked the cruise ship "Seaborne Spirit" about 100 miles offshore. Since the boat was too small to safely travel over such distances, a larger ship in the vicinity used as base of pperations seems to be the only possible answer. Additionally there were some reports about an unidentified freighter cruising around in these waters.
The government of Somalia hired the PSC Topcat Marine Security in order to fight piracy and re-establish security along the coast.

Usually pirates operate near the coast and use the element of surprise in order to attack and/or take over larger ships, especially freighters and tankers. Their weapons range from knives and small arms to RPG and light machine guns, usually carried in speed boats.

The Tsunami in 2004 greatly diminished pirate activity in the area of Indonesia and Malaysia, supposedly because their bases had been destroyed. Yet the phenomenon is all but decreasing and several hot spots do exist worldwide.
A map can be found with this report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4424264.stm

 

[LancerMc]

From the news I have read over the past few years, most modern pirate activity is located in the Indian and Pacific ocean. The threat of privacy is still taken very seriously in some parts of the world.

Pirate activity is still quite on going. The news report that comes to mind was about 4 or 5 years ago, a group of European and American tourists went to one of the islands where the the American TV show "Survivor" was filmed. The tourist's were on the island when they were attacked by a group of pirates. The two American's were the only ones to escape, and the rest of the tourist grouped was behead. I'll try find more information about the incident.

The most recent issues have been the capturing of a supposed pirate ship in the Indian ocean, and the attack against a cruise liners a few months ago.

 

[type 209]

just a few days ago there was an article about the U.S having to board a pirate ship

i wonder what weapons are available to pirate anything stronger than rpgs maybe some 30mm guns or mines?

 

[turin]

i wonder what weapons are available to pirate anything stronger than rpgs maybe some 30mm guns or mines?

At least I heard of no report about such armament. Most pirates prefer to travel light, and since their targets usually are not armed anyway, a heavier gun would offer no advantage and only slow them down or would make things more expensive, since they need a bigger boat.
Pirates go for the money, they are certainly not interested in fighting against security forces, though such things happen on occasion when matters go awry.

 

[arkhan]

From the news I have read over the past few years, most modern pirate activity is located in the Indian and Pacific ocean. The threat of privacy is still taken very seriously in some parts of the world.

Pirate activity is still quite on going. The news report that comes to mind was about 4 or 5 years ago, a group of European and American tourists went to one of the islands where the the American TV show "Survivor" was filmed. The tourist's were on the island when they were attacked by a group of pirates. The two American's were the only ones to escape, and the rest of the tourist grouped was behead. I'll try find more information about the incident.

The most recent issues have been the capturing of a supposed pirate ship in the Indian ocean, and the attack against a cruise liners a few months ago.

actually the island is Sipadan island, survivor was film on Tiga Island.
search 'sipadan island attack by terrorist' on google.
try these links:
http://www.cdnn.info/special-report/sipadan/sipadan.html
http://www.ict.org.il/organizations/orgattack.cfm?orgid=3
http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/review/2005/autumn/art4-a05.htm

the third link from naval war college is quite long. read it to understand the link between piracy and terrorism in south east asia. if you study the map in the article you will understand why it is hard to fight these piracy because there is so many island the can hide.

 

[arkhan]

i forgot, this is the link to Survivor Island/Pulau Tiga
http://www.impressions.com.my/pulau3/3main.htm
Tourist need not worry, after the Sipadan incident, there is small number of army personel station on the island.

 

[Berserk Fury]

Actually most of the piracy occurs around the Strait of Malacca, I believe, in island areas like Indonesia.
Regarding pirate armaments, I'd say they'd be armed with Ak's and LMG's maybe a few RPG's, maybe some explosives.
btw, has anybody read Tiger Cruise? it's about pirates attack a US destroyer.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Actually most of the piracy occurs around the Strait of Malacca, I believe, in island areas like Indonesia.

The main trouble spots are around Somalia, The Straits of Malacca, South China Sea (Philippines)

Regarding pirate armaments, I'd say they'd be armed with Ak's and LMG's maybe a few RPG's, maybe some explosives.

My daughter is attached to an anti-piracy security team. They are assigned to various vessels deemed "valuable and at risk" The pirates that they've come across have been armed with RPG's, 50cals and the usual small arms.

Their type of response is very much dependant on the severity of the threat - but the less passengers on board, the more likely they are to respond with extreme force.

 

[Uhu]

IMB (international maritime bureau) released their annual "piracy and armed robbery" report today, here's an article about it with the most interesting statistics and also a link where you can request the full report.

Short summary (no guarantee):

The number of attacks fell from 329 (2004) to 276 (2005), the lowest since 6 years, no crewmembers were killed but 12 are still missing.
On the other hand the the number of hijacked vessels is the highest since 1992: 23 vessels and 440 crewmembers were taken hostage, the highest number sincd 1992. Such incidents happend in the waters of Somalia, Indonesia and Nigeria.

Developement of piracy hotspots:

Increase:
Somalia: from 2 (2004) to 35 (2005
Iraq: from 0 to 10
Also Tanzania, Vietnam

Decrease:
Indonesia: down from 94 to 79
Malacca Straits: down from 38 to 12
Also Malaysia, Thailand, Brazil, Venezuela, Guinea

The article mentions also that the increased presence of foreign naval forces in Somali waters towards the end of 2005 ndeed had a positive impact on the numbers.

 

[Mercenary]

The typical pirate scumare armed with a wide assortment of AK-47's, M-16's, LMG's, and RPG-7's depending on their geographical location of course.

The U.S. Navy recently last month I believe had deployed a GM Cruiser offshore of Somali where they intercepted some Somali Pirate scum and fired .50cal HMG some were captured. Too bad, they survived. It's not worth US taxpayer $$ to keep 'em alive in our posh prisons. Sink their craft and leave them to the sharks.

This overkill Naval deployment was in direct response to some Pirate scum that attacked a Cruise Liner in international waters off Somali firing RPG's at it's hull! The Capt. used shriek air horn/sirens to drive them away.

Piracy is on the rise all across the planet. It happens everywhere from the Red Sea to Malacca Straits (Malaysia) to the Indian Ocean to Persian Gulf to the Carribean to the Greek Islands, etc.

The problems for innocent private citizens around the world is they typically are not well armed to hold off Pirate scum utilizing lethal firepower because outside USA water's many nations for instance in the Carribean have strict laws governing the ownership of handguns. And in a close anti-boarding party scenerio a stainless steel 4" barrel .357mag Revolver would be ideal.

At the least an stainless steel, .12 guage pump Shotgun with OO buck and/or a short barreled .45ACP Marlin Carbine or a SS 7.62mm, Mini-30 would be smart for cruisers doing the around-the-world curcuit.

Dealing with Piracy scum becomes a Military intervention when the immediate local Law Enforcement agencies are ill-equipped/motivated to counter it.

The other important item to keep in mind here is Piracy does not just target small sailboats, but increasing fuel tankers, cargo freighters, bulk vessels, container ships, etc, etc, have all become targets over the years particulary down in South East Asian waters. Often the 'victims' are machine gunned where they stand. Stolen Vessels are repainted and later sold on the black market. Big Biz in some parts of the world.

Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia need to put aside their petty differences and come together with a solidified stance on countering and ultimately reduce the increasing number of Pirate attacks in these waters. Joint Naval and Law Enforcement coupled with maybe something like a Joint Procurement of a low-cost twin turboprop Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (Defender 4000 MPA, Beech King Air 350 MPA, F-406 Caravan II MPA, etc) to be utilized by ALL these nations to provide around the clock coverage of these dangerous waters.

Also invest in a 'common' ultra fast interceptor Patrol Boat either on the civilian market or maybe a lower cost Super Dvora Mk III Interceptor PGB?

Finally some sort of helo' equipped Offshore Patrol Vessel for joint procurement. Malaysia and Australia at one point in time were planning to build a joint designed OPV.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The U.S. Navy recently last month I believe had deployed a GM Cruiser offshore of Somali where they intercepted some Somali Pirate scum and fired .50cal HMG some were captured. Too bad, they survived. It's not worth US taxpayer $$ to keep 'em alive in our posh prisons. Sink their craft and leave them to the sharks.

The USN had a pair of ships in the area - they actually responded as the pirate vessels attacked them, One of the pirates boats actually attempted an RPG attack.

This overkill Naval deployment was in direct response to some Pirate scum that attacked a Cruise Liner in international waters off Somali firing RPG's at it's hull! The Capt. used shriek air horn/sirens to drive them away.

My daughter was on that Ocean Liner as part of the Security Detail. She was the LRAD operator. They don't use air horns/sirens at all. It is a focussed acoustic beam weapon. In addition the vessel did suffer damage even though it was not reported in the general press. Two RPG's peirced the hull but did not explode. All passengers were on the other side of the vessel as directed by security. One crewman was injured by debris from an RPG entry. The Captain also attempted to run down the pirate vessels and had the advantage of superior speed and manouvre. At a certain speed pirates can't board - the issue is ensuring that they can't draw in so as to get close enough to board. Enough speed means that its too dangerous for the pirates to approach the stern. There have been instances of pirates being sucked under the stern of a larger vessel (eg cruise liner size)

Piracy is on the rise all across the planet. It happens everywhere from the Red Sea to Malacca Straits (Malaysia) to the Indian Ocean to Persian Gulf to the Carribean to the Greek Islands, etc.

The best data - and daily updated accurate data is provided by IMB. All merchant vessels have hourly access to the IMB data.

The problems for innocent private citizens around the world is they typically are not well armed to hold off Pirate scum utilizing lethal firepower because outside USA water's many nations for instance in the Carribean have strict laws governing the ownership of handguns. And in a close anti-boarding party scenerio a stainless steel 4" barrel .357mag Revolver would be ideal.

It also applies to major vessels like cruise liners. Insurance companies actually prohibit some vessels from having an armoury. As for private vessels, even though gun laws can be prohibitive on general ownership, there are provisions allowed for legitimate carriage and thus licensing re self protection.

At the least an stainless steel, .12 guage pump Shotgun with OO buck and/or a short barreled .45ACP Marlin Carbine or a SS 7.62mm, Mini-30 would be smart for cruisers doing the around-the-world curcuit.

See above. Thats why they field LRAD. There are other non lethal options as well but they are not disclosed for security reasons.

Dealing with Piracy scum becomes a Military intervention when the immediate local Law Enforcement agencies are ill-equipped/motivated to counter it.

In the case of Somalia its because there was no govt proper - that has now been resolved and the US has been "invited" by the remnants of the legitimate govt to act in a coastal protection role.

The other important item to keep in mind here is Piracy does not just target small sailboats, but increasing fuel tankers, cargo freighters, bulk vessels, container ships, etc, etc, have all become targets over the years particulary down in South East Asian waters. Often the 'victims' are machine gunned where they stand. Stolen Vessels are repainted and later sold on the black market. Big Biz in some parts of the world.

Actually, the bulk of attacks are on larger vessels as they carry payrolls for their crew. Again, the IMB reports give some detail.

Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia need to put aside their petty differences and come together with a solidified stance on countering and ultimately reduce the increasing number of Pirate attacks in these waters. Joint Naval and Law Enforcement coupled with maybe something like a Joint Procurement of a low-cost twin turboprop Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (Defender 4000 MPA, Beech King Air 350 MPA, F-406 Caravan II MPA, etc) to be utilized by ALL these nations to provide around the clock coverage of these dangerous waters.

There are some significant changes in co-operation - certainly better than 18 months ago. Its not just an issue of patrolling though. There are some local crime and corruption issues to deal with concurrently

Also invest in a 'common' ultra fast interceptor Patrol Boat either on the civilian market or maybe a lower cost Super Dvora Mk III Interceptor PGB?

Thats attractive - but its not the whole answer. In the case of Indonesia and the Philipines there are enclaves deep within the coastal areas that are considered "no go" zones as access is not easy. Indonesia especially has a coastline that prohibits the use of fast shallow boats - and the fact that entire communities can be complicit does not help either. The problem has to be dealt with at source.

Finally some sort of helo' equipped Offshore Patrol Vessel for joint procurement. Malaysia and Australia at one point in time were planning to build a joint designed OPV.

See above. This is not a hardware problem - the capacity to sieze and sink has never been a primary problem. Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia all know where the main attacks occur - but the traffic is significant. There are over 50,000 vessel movements per year in the Malacca Straits alone. Its also a resource issue. Its also a political will and intent issue - particularly for the Indonesian Govt where its common knowledge within the industry that they have corrupt local and regional officials.