Performance of the Merkava in Lebenon
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DoC_FouALieR
New Member
As I have already said in another topic, we have very clever (!) politics in France that want to cut down the budget of the army by doing wrong calculus like replacing all of our old tracked IFV by a wheeled one, claiming that it is cheaper to operate. The only tracked vehicles that are going to remain in our land army is the Leclerc MBT, the breaching/general purpose vehicle of the engineering, and some swedish Bv-26 for mountains troops.
France refused the offer by the German to be involved in the Puma IFV project.
The Vextra is only a demonstrator of 8x8 mobility and firepower made by GIAT, it will never enter full production.
However, the VBCI is still superior to the Stryker by having the formidable 8x8 gear of the Vextra, superior protection and weaponry (could even be armed with the famous CTAI 40mm gun). But it is wheeled.
The Striker is also not a real IFV.
Not armoured enough. Not able to follow high mobile, tracked tank forces.
No bigger weapons than heavy MGs or grenade machine weapons.
There would be a massacre if they would face some real IFVs.
So Stryker is not a real opinion for the IDF as a combined arms IFV.
It is a vehicle for other tasks.
Not armoured enough. Not able to follow high mobile, tracked tank forces.
No bigger weapons than heavy MGs or grenade machine weapons.
There would be a massacre if they would face some real IFVs.
So Stryker is not a real opinion for the IDF as a combined arms IFV.
It is a vehicle for other tasks.
contedicavour
New Member
Do you know what equipment the French Army will deploy in Lebanon ? We are in the process of identifying which brigade will lead the effort. Most likely the Ariete (with the Ariete MBTs and Dardo tracked AIFVs), though the Pozzuolo del Friuli could also be used (in this case it's Centauro 8x8 wheeled tank buster with 6x6 Puma AIFVs similar to your country's VABs). Plus of course artillery and helos (don't know yet if we'll use Mangustas - will you be using Tiger ?)DoC_FouALieR said:
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DoC_FouALieR
New Member
Since I don't know whom regiments are going to Lebanon, I'm not able to tell what equipment will be deployed...
I only wish they are not about to go there with only a few VABs...
But if you Italians are going to deploy your Ariete, it becomes unlikely that our Leclercs will be send.
As for the Tiger, I actually don't know the number in service, but perhaps, the same for the Caesar artillery system.
But it is probable that the VBCI will be deployed, they are quite impatient to play with their new toy!
If not, and considering that the situation can quickly become complicated, AMX-10P and AMX-10 RC will join the party. (the later being a light tank with a 105 mm gun)
I only wish they are not about to go there with only a few VABs...
But if you Italians are going to deploy your Ariete, it becomes unlikely that our Leclercs will be send.
As for the Tiger, I actually don't know the number in service, but perhaps, the same for the Caesar artillery system.
But it is probable that the VBCI will be deployed, they are quite impatient to play with their new toy!
If not, and considering that the situation can quickly become complicated, AMX-10P and AMX-10 RC will join the party. (the later being a light tank with a 105 mm gun)
contedicavour
New Member
I wouldn't be surprised if some new equipment were deployed for testing and, to be honest, for some advertisement effortDoC_FouALieR said:
. With the world's TV sets following what will be going on in Lebanon, seeing some good equipment performing well may help exports later on. Obviously this is a bit shameful since the mission is all about helping civilians, restore peace, deliver food and medicines, but I guess you understand what I mean
Anyway, if you have news on which regiments and on which ships are going, let me know please.
cheers
DoC_FouALieR
New Member
Hmm the first 200 man sent are from the 13th engineering regiment, deploying VABs, and a lot of equipment to clear minefields, for water treatment, electric generator, etc etc..
But the official of the army headquarters have not yet tell what are the two regiment that are going to be sent ..
But the official of the army headquarters have not yet tell what are the two regiment that are going to be sent ..
I exactly see what you mean! Seeing on TV, for example a VBCI at full speed evacuating people from a crisis area, could be a good advertissement for GIAT...
I'll be interested to see how VBCI does on operations; the French have always used a lot of wheeled vehicles, so they may have reason to be confident in their choice to use a wheeled IFV instead of a tracked one. As for Stryker, it certainly is not an IFV, but an APC. In this role, I think it's fine. The OIF vets I've seen talking about it on forums seem quite satisfied with it, noting its high speed (good for chasing after technicals), good ride, and resistance to IED damage (if a wheel gets blown off, it can still limp home, which tracked vehicles can not do). I'm not of the "light is right" ilk, but I'll be keeping an eye out for any AARs or the like from VBCI units.
contedicavour
New Member
I've got more news on our deployment. First in will be 1,000 Marines from Lagunari and San Marco regiments. Then as of October the Pozzuolo del Friuli armoured cavalry heavy brigade will take over with 3 of its cavalry regiments (40 Centauro 8x8 120mm and 40 Puma 6x6 for each regiment), plus a couple of Ariete MBT companies (expect 25-30 MBTs) and a lot of Logistics and Engineering people. No information yet on artillery or on attack helos. Total land force : 2,700 people 100% deployed end October.DoC_FouALieR said:
Strange thing though : after the 1st month, our carrier Garibaldi will go back to Italy, so no air cover. A bit worrying...
I hope your De Gaulle will be around just in case !
cheers
Couldn't Cyprus be used as an airbase or ist the airbase there too small? As long as I know our Tornados are going to operate from Cyprus.
It looks like there will me much more heavy equipment than I expected.
And we managed to stay out of sending ground troops. On the one hand I think this is good because I do not really see that this operation is going to be short or successfull.
On the other hand it is laughable that our government wants to be a global player but if it comes to do something difficult we send naval, logistic and air units.
It looks like there will me much more heavy equipment than I expected.
And we managed to stay out of sending ground troops. On the one hand I think this is good because I do not really see that this operation is going to be short or successfull.
On the other hand it is laughable that our government wants to be a global player but if it comes to do something difficult we send naval, logistic and air units.
well, there's RAF Akrotiri - http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafakrotiri/index.htmWaylander said:
Although it only hosts a 84 sqn at the moment, it's a pretty big base, with lots of ancillary facilities (e.g. a hospital). It's technically British territory - a Sovereign Base Area.
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Any necessary air support could be based in Turkey. I know the Turks didn't want the US using their bases in the Iraq war. But this is a peace-keeping operation, and by letting Italy and/or other countries use Turkish air-bases would certainly help their bid to join the EU. If the Turks don't allow use of their bases, then the other options for air support (For Italy) are:
Deploy Garibaldi for more then a month.
Create an interim base in southern Lebanon
Recieve air support from the carriers of other countries involved in the effiort
Also, can the San Giorgio LPDs operate Harriers? If so, then that is another option.
Deploy Garibaldi for more then a month.
Create an interim base in southern Lebanon
Recieve air support from the carriers of other countries involved in the effiort
Also, can the San Giorgio LPDs operate Harriers? If so, then that is another option.
as well as to the mujahadeen in afghanistan during the 80,s,the russians found that out!Izzy1 said:
The Lebanon south of the Litani is not much more tha 80km wide. I would not like to put the airbase of my CAS right into the middle of the crisis region were mortars could hit the airbase every time.
(BTW, is there even an usefull base in th south of Lebanon)
(BTW, is there even an usefull base in th south of Lebanon)
contedicavour
New Member
The LPDHs can operate Harriers only for emergency air cover missions, with AIM120B and AIM9L and no extra fuel tanks or Paveways. Fuel load would be so limited that the jets can fly 100NM max with no time for loitering above target...fylr71 said:
I would definitively opt for Akrotiri in Cyprus, where Tornado IDS can be based.
cheers