Pakistani Options - post Patriot delivery to India

[P.A.F]

what type of seeking system does the patriot run on. because if it is a heat seeker then pakistan should just put some flare and shaff system on the Ballistic missiles . Only joking. i don't think this patriot business is such a big deal. i'm sure pakistan has something up it's sleave.

 

[SABRE]

The answer is simple. USA needs both India & Pakistan just as it did with Israel & Egypt & the treatment will be the same. Like Egypt & Israel, US will have to treat both India & Pakistan equaly & give them equal balance of defence. Offcourse Israel has its own Defence R&D so it surpassed the Egyptions.

Final answer. Pakistan should get Patriots from US as well.

 

[P.A.F]

if we can't get it from the US then is it possible that we get the technology from saudi arabia and make our own???probably better then the PAC-3????

 

[gf0012-aust]

if we can't get it from the US then is it possible that we get the technology from saudi arabia and make our own???probably better then the PAC-3????

No disrespect to the Saudis, but a country that doesn't even have "sounding rockets" is hardly in a position to develop missile interceptors.

thats like comparing a capacity to make a corvette with a PAR equipped Cruiser and then expecting the corvette to be able to do the same job.

 

[adsH]

if we can't get it from the US then is it possible that we get the technology from saudi arabia and make our own???probably better then the PAC-3????

PAF Saudi Arabia does not poses the technology they even have US contractors to support whatever they have for there defense, that’s the reason why they have such a large defense budget. Saudis have not received the technology even if they did as a package I doubt the people who were sitting in on the Saudi side during “the Patriot for dummies: Lesson 1†weren’t Saudis.

 

[mysterious]

Pakistan warning on Patriot sale

Pakistan has warned the US that any sale of its Patriot anti-missile system to India could plunge the region into a new crisis.

Islamabad said on Wednesday it was opposed to any kind of arms race in South Asia and would like the region to be free of any systems like Patriot.


Foreign office spokesman, Masood Khan, said he did not believe India was on the verge of purchasing Patriot.

But he said Islamabad had warned the US a sale could erode regional deterrence.

Bus service
Mr Khan said Islamabad was aware India was exploring such a purchase.

Patriot missiles are used for defence against ballistic or cruise missiles, and gained fame during the first Gulf War when used by Israel against Iraqi Scuds.


Mr Khan said if India were allowed to purchase such a system, it would start an unintended arms race in South Asia and would harm the peace process.

The spokesman said so far India and Pakistan had made considerable efforts taking the peace process forward.

These included last week's agreement to start a bus service through the Line of Control that separates Indian and Pakistani-controlled Kashmir.

He said the procedure for issuing special travel permits for the Srinagar-Muzaffarabad service was being worked out. The service - being dubbed the biggest confidence-building measure in the troubled region - is scheduled to start from 7 April.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4292017.stm

That is true. Selling Patriots to India will only erode the balance that is now in place and accelerate the arms race, even risking the current thaw in relations.

PS: I see some members making multiple posts all the time when they can easily put whatever they have to say in a single post. Whats with that? Mods?

 

[srirangan]

Latest whispers in Delhi, US is bundling the PAC-2's and F-16's together. India could very well be forced to buy the F-16's if they wish to acquire the PAC's.

 

[A Khan]

Is it it likely that India will buy the PAC-2? i though they were going to push for the PAC-3 or arrows. Well if the buy both the PAC-2 and the F-16s then Russia most definitely will be worried. IF india can get that, then they would also be able to buy other US high tech weaponry, and russia might find one of its biggest defence export-market becomming much smaller...

 

[A Khan]

‘Pakistan capable of countering

India’s Patriot missile system’

ISLAMABAD: Expressing concern over reports that India is trying to purchase Patriot anti-missile system from the United States, Defence Secretary Hamid Nawaz said Pakistan was capable enough to counter India’s anti-missile system.

"Pakistan will use suitable ways to counter it. There are many strategic and statistical ways to cope with it. It would be better that India should avoid acquisition of such weapons or system," he said.

In an interview with Voice of America (VOA), he said Pakistan was not making any effort to indulge in arm race with India. The European countries and the US should maintain balance in conventional weapons. "Patriot missile defence system should not be provided to India. It is an attempt to neutralize our strategic surveillance and missile programme. It will disturb the balance of entire region," he said while commenting on reports that India was acquiring anti-missile defence system from the United Sates.

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/

So what could these ways be? Adsh has given a detailed decription of the FT-2000. The other articles have mentioned that the PAC-2 might be able to stop the Ghauri missile and the other smaller Hatf-series missiles, but what about the Shaheen? as i remember they were more advanced then the Ghauri, so what are the "chances" of the PAC-3 stopping them?

 

[adsH]

No one is getting PAC-3 here. Pac-3 could effectively be utilized as a comprehensive Anti BM system, India is probably trying to haggle its way towards Pac-3 from Pac-2. and i am guessing Pac-2 are being offered so that India could set its mind at ease that they were provided (offered) a counter to the New PAF F-16 that would be Introduced into the system. I doubt The US would introduce Pac-3 in that region without introducing a counter on the Pakistani Side.

" Theater Missile Defense (TMD) architecture" is what the Pac-2 is. the Pac-3 is where all the new improvements have gone inn.

The Patriot PAC-3 is intended as a last-ditch "lower tier" defense against incoming missiles at an altitude of 20 kilometers (12.5 miles) or less. The US Army also is pursuing a "Theater High Altitude Air Defense (THAAD)" system as an "upper tier" defense to hit incoming missiles at higher altitudes, from 40 to 100 kilometers (25 to 62 miles).

http://www.vectorsite.net/twabm2.html

INterception of BM at low altitudes would still be deadly!!! Considering the BM has a clever AI to detect that its being intercepted. Hence the the THAAD upper tier project.

 

[P.A.F]

i read somewhere that musaraf isn't bothered about it either. so no sweat. he's got a so called 15 year plan to modernize pakistans military and he assures every pakistani that the military modernisation goals will be acheived.

 

[adsH]

i read somewhere that musaraf isn't bothered about it either. so no sweat. he's got a so called 15 year plan to modernize pakistans military and he assures every pakistani that the military modernisation goals will be acheived.

Uh no!! he is "bothered" very Cautious if i may add!, he knows the Difference it would make, he was merely stating that there are ways around an obstacle such as that, and Pakistan will get around them.

 

[Temoor_A]

I also saw Musharraf's interview and he did not looked worried and is more focusing on "15 year Military Modernization Plan".

The PAC-2 is being offered to India and US has not indicated on sale of PAC-3 system yet.

PAC-2 along with Green Pine Radar system, I think is capable of countering any Fighter plane at high-altitude levels and intercepting Missiles ranging from M-11 (200 km) to Ghauri 1 (1100 km) from Pakistan. But Ghauri II and Shaheen II might have the slightest chance of escaping interception.

But it will be a big moral boost for India and I personally think that US should not have offered that weapon. Plus we can also expect India to open research on this new technology as soon as it gets it.

Contrary to this, China needs to do something and help Pakistan but I wonder about how long will it take!

 

[sobank]

as a threat well there is not much to it. as someone said earlier that a scud went through many us batteries and got straight to Riad. i know a lot of people gonna say that it is battle proven but sincerely i dont trust it since it went only against scuds.

if you see the map of the countries than you will realize it that they gonna need lots and lots of pacs to cover it. so i believe that the system is going to be used as military infrastructure defence and not to stop any missile that crosses the border. and then PAF can easily get anti pac system and also work with china to improve it.

But again indians are not stupid they most probably want the system to upgrade their know how.

 

[indianguy4u]

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[indianguy4u]

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[gf0012-aust]

hi guy one more indian has joined the fray .lets have some fun guy at pakistan's expense hahaha!!!.well talking about patriot sys & arrogant pakis saying that they dont care any less then go to hell ,b'coz it will change the whole dynamics of asia due to its consequences on indo-china startegic balance.well may pakis might think we are interested to kick ur arse u r wrong this is to kick chinyminy arse u got it & thats the reason US of A is ready to talk & may be give TOT to india

This is an international forum where we discuss issues at a technical level - not at a disparaging level. Please learn to make comments that are appropriate to the forums rules of posting etiquette in future.

 

[corsair7772]

I dont think the PAC-3 system has much of a chance against ballistic missiles. No ABM system does as yet , and yes im talking about the Arrow system too. Even the older chinese missiles have the capability of achieving speeds of upto Mach 13~15. Its like trying to stop a rock someone has thrown at you with another rock. Which is a small chance even if ur rock has a couple of mini supercomputers on it. ABM technology is pretty hard to come by and id say that one the Arrow has a pretty good ABM capability for now but even then its best chance is to shoot down scuds and missiles designed in the 80 at best.

But the PAC-3 would make a near invincible SAM system and would be best at that but only partially capable of ABM operations. I cant pretend to have all the info on this but heres a fact: Ballistic missiles travel at speeds six times that of a bullet from a high velocity sniper rifle. Still worried abt the PAC-3?