Pakistan will purchase 6 SAAB aircraft

[mysterious]

Pakistan will purchase 6 SAAB aircraft

LAHORE: Mounting media and public pressure notwithstanding, Pakistan will go ahead with the purchase of six SAAB early warning system aircraft from Sweden, a Defence Ministry source told Daily Times on Friday. The $1 billion deal for the aircraft was signed with Swedish companies SAAB and Ericsson on October 19, roughly two weeks after the October 8 earthquake that struck northern Pakistan.

In face of overwhelming reconstruction costs and limited foreign assistance, President Pervez Musharraf said this week that the F-16 aircraft deal with the US would be postponed. “Though the deal was signed after the earthquake, it was negotiated much earlier. Also, Pakistan will not have to pay the full amount now, as the payment schedule ends in 2010,†the source added. However, the source said Pakistan was bound to pay 15 percent or $150 million as down payment by April 2006.

“Pakistan badly needs a state of the art early warning system, especially when India has acquired a similar system from Israel. Also, in order to maintain the conventional arms balance, especially for the Pakistan Air Force, Pakistan needs the aircraft,†he said. “India has recently acquired Mirage and Sukhoi aircraft and the Israeli Phalcon airborne surveillance system and is poised to get a large number of F-16s from the US. Therefore, our air force requirements become more pressing,†the source said.

Musharraf started negotiating for the aircraft during his July 2004 visit to Sweden. The deal was finally sealed on October 19 under which SAAB will receive two thirds of the 8.3 million Swedish kronor (878-million-euro, one-billion-dollar) contract and Ericsson will get the other third. Mohammed Rizwan

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\11\12\story_12-11-2005_pg7_4

So finally! They've come out of the closet about the deal and I'm sure this will put all the skepticism about the deal to rest. Although I'm not too sure about the comments 'this source' made regarding India acquiring a 'large' number of F-16s (lets not get carried away now).

All in all, its a good decision and one that is economical as well. Best part; $150 mil down-payment won't tie up funds for earthquake rehabilitation and reconstruction which is an added benefit since the F-16 deal has already been postponed. Pakistan badly needs AWACS capability and this would prove to be a much needed shot in the arm for the PAF. Cheers!

 

[Viman]

So finally! They've come out of the closet about the deal and I'm sure this will put all the skepticism about the deal to rest. Although I'm not too sure about the comments 'this source' made regarding India acquiring a 'large' number of F-16s (lets not get carried away now).

I personally like gripen and rafale(multirole) a lot. But overall its a good acquisition by PAF (for the time being as f-16's are posponded). But 6 is a big number of Awacs !! India has got 3 phalcons only !! How many countries currently operate the SAAB erieye ?
Thanks,
Viman

 

[aaaditya]

I personally like gripen and rafale(multirole) a lot. But overall its a good acquisition by PAF (for the time being as f-16's are posponded). But 6 is a big number of Awacs !! India has got 3 Falcon's only !! How many countries currently operate the SAAB erieye ?
Thanks,
Viman

phalcons are much larger and more capable system ,they have the ability of accepting more number of operator consoles(and much more expensive).by the way does any one know how many operator consoles can the paf erieye have ?

 

[SABRE]

How many countries currently operate the SAAB erieye ?

1. Sweden
2. Brazil (has 5 units)
3. Greece (has ordered 4 units)
4. Pakistan (has ordered 6 units)
5. Maxico (has ordered 1 units)

 

[BilalK]

I don't think the deal has completely been finalized, although about Pakistan acquiring them is final, the deal has yet to be inked because they didn't disclose details like delivery, etc.

 

[ajaybhutani]

hasnt it been delayed due the the earthquake..

 

[BilalK]

hasnt it been delayed due the the earthquake..

The article says the deal will continue despite the earthquake - the F-16 deal was delayed.

 

[ajaybhutani]

My fault. But i wonder How will paksitan convince foreign countries for aid for 5B$ rehabilitation if it signs such high value deals today..

 

[webmaster]

My fault. But i wonder How will paksitan convince foreign countries for aid for 5B$ rehabilitation if it signs such high value deals today..

:fly
That is why the DEAL WAS DELAYED... so "signing deal today" is out of the question! I know, very hard concept to grasp.

 

[BilalK]

My fault. But i wonder How will paksitan convince foreign countries for aid for 5B$ rehabilitation if it signs such high value deals today..

Signing a deal, and paying for it are two different things. Just read the article, it clearly says Pakistan will pay for the aircraft in installments over an extended period of time. Its likely the installments will be made smaller, and the money will be paid over a longer period.

 

[Hussain]

Are any of the Pakistani Miarges data linked as in the case of the SAAB Gripens. I think Pakistan needs to datalink its frontlinree fighters if they are going to be used with SAAB 'AWACS' system. Is there a chance that Pakistan is buying Gripen technology for use with its F16's and frontline Mirages? I am sure that Swedish electronic systems, and radars, can easily be fitted on the Mirages and F16's.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

Are any of the Pakistani Miarges data linked as in the case of the SAAB Gripens. I think Pakistan needs to datalink its frontlinree fighters if they are going to be used with SAAB 'AWACS' system. Is there a chance that Pakistan is buying Gripen technology for use with its F16's and frontline Mirages? I am sure that Swedish electronic systems, and radars, can easily be fitted on the Mirages and F16's.

Hussain,i don't believe that any Mirages have the data-linking capability. And to get this capability on our front line fighters(current 32 blk-15 F-16,75 new C/D blk 52 F-16s and about 2 more re-made F-16) would be most definately very costly, although we would be able to take the collaboration between the F-16 and AWACS to a new level, I realize it is expensive. Data-linking capability is very fragile,sensitive,costly and is not easily installed or given by a country. We know that Kamra would be responsible for this job, and they have got their hands full with many projects.

Now Sweden has Gripen as its main fighter and they also have the erieye that they make so they need them to work together. We have different origin Aircrafts, So they all have their own things. If we made the F-16s then we could fit the Data-linking capability on it with no sweat. If Sweden is not willing to provide us with Gripens then we are not familiar with data-linking. It all depends on the way Sweden plays its cards.If you have any other questions,feel free to ask

 

[aaaditya]

datalinking is very effective for both airdefence abd ground attack roles as it provides the pilot with situational awareness which is essential for survival and successfull completion of a mission.
datalinking of air ,ground,sea and subsurface units is the reason behind us success in iraq .
by the way does pakistani airforce and navy have any form of secure communication between them(datalinking)?,would be very usefull for interoperability.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

datalinking is very effective for both airdefence abd ground attack roles as it provides the pilot with situational awareness which is essential for survival and successfull completion of a mission.
datalinking of air ,ground,sea and subsurface units is the reason behind us success in iraq .
by the way does pakistani airforce and navy have any form of secure communication between them(datalinking)?,would be very usefull for interoperability.

Well,by now we all know that Data-linking is vital to a countries defense. Sweden has developed these erieyes mostly for increase in communication and improvment in Navy and Air force. This by far ensures safe skies, 2 for navy and 4 others for the air force can maintain the sky. Recently i read that there would be no doubt that an erieye would be based at Masroor(Karachi) and not to mention the bases in the mid-section of Pakistan. Sarghoda is likely to have erieyes come in day and night because we are the main communication wing of CP (central Pakistan). The erieyes would also be placed in "likely-to-be-hit" areas.

Masroor Air Base has a role unlike any other in Pakistan. They are the only base with the Mirage 5PA/PA2 and with this ability they are able to take out various frigates and destroyers.

Lets imagine this

You are a pilot of a Mirage 5pa(with data-linking capability) at Masroor Air Base . you are briefed on a SOLO training sortie. Now on your way over the ocean you see a warship heading right for the Karachi shores. Ofcourse you are going to need backup, and you send a message right to the erieyes which link to all the main communication wings around Pakistan and other erieyes. NOTE-to make this easy for some people, Data-linking workes in a process similar to our nervous system. All the informations is sent in less than a minute. Now other Mirage 5PA/PA2 pilots scramble to help you. Now to end this you are directed to shoot an Exocet at the heart of the ship.

You get it guys? this is for the people who yet need to figure out what Data-linking is truly capable of .

This is why Pakistan need this capability, and Gripens (if Sweden ever approves the deal) are really good for this job. 1 squadron of Gripen dedicated for Maritime duty...Just imagine

 

[Hussain]

I think the Mig 31 was data linked in the late 1990's . The Mig 31 was underrated (for some unknown reason) and therefore didn't have any export success, despite the fact it was offered for sale to Iran. If Iran had managed to acquire a 100 of these fighters I believe the Iranians would have had the potential to become one of the most powerful air powers in the region.

To get back to the point, I believe that data link technology has been out for a while and the USSR was one of the leading players, despite the fact that in terms of electronic technology it was behind the West. It is therefore possible for Pakistan to develop this technology for itself as it will dramatically improve the effectiveness of its air-force with or without the Swedish AWACS. Pakistan can also use the SU27 to develop a mini AWACS plane because SU's endurance and radar housing. The Russians have modified SU27's for this role in the past. all the Mirage's, as well as the F16's can should be data linked.

Some of Pakistan's fighters should be given the best radars money can buy, even if that means that the planes airframe is worth less than the radar and electronic it houses. These planes can themselves act as a mini control centre to vector other fighters in via information gained from ground and air sensors. This will also stop the SAAB AWACS from becoming easy targets to the enemy and act as force multipliers.

 

[adsH]

Well,by now we all know that Data-linking is vital to a countries defense. Sweden has developed these erieyes mostly for increase in communication and improvment in Navy and Air force. This by far ensures safe skies, 2 for navy and 4 others for the air force can maintain the sky. Recently i read that there would be no doubt that an erieye would be based at Masroor(Karachi) and not to mention the bases in the mid-section of Pakistan. Sarghoda is likely to have erieyes come in day and night because we are the main communication wing of CP (central Pakistan). The erieyes would also be placed in "likely-to-be-hit" areas.

Masroor Air Base has a role unlike any other in Pakistan. They are the only base with the Mirage 5PA/PA2 and with this ability they are able to take out various frigates and destroyers.

Lets imagine this

You are a pilot of a Mirage 5pa(with data-linking capability) at Masroor Air Base . you are briefed on a SOLO training sortie. Now on your way over the ocean you see a warship heading right for the Karachi shores. Ofcourse you are going to need backup, and you send a message right to the erieyes which link to all the main communication wings around Pakistan and other erieyes. NOTE-to make this easy for some people, Data-linking workes in a process similar to our nervous system. All the informations is sent in less than a minute. Now other Mirage 5PA/PA2 pilots scramble to help you. Now to end this you are directed to shoot an Exocet at the heart of the ship.

You get it guys? this is for the people who yet need to figure out what Data-linking is truly capable of .

This is why Pakistan need this capability, and Gripens (if Sweden ever approves the deal) are really good for this job. 1 squadron of Gripen dedicated for Maritime duty...Just imagine

if you can manage to datalink the Mirage 5PA/PA2 you'll probably see a dramatic upward shift in PN Attack capability, PA have a Radar range of About 26+ N-Miles. The PA3 have AM-39 Exocet anti-ship missile capabilities. Mix the eyrie with the Exocet, a cruise Missile and P3c and you'l have an impressive capability.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

if you can manage to datalink the Mirage 5PA/PA2 you'll probably see a dramatic upward shift in PN Attack capability, PA have a Radar range of About 26+ N-Miles. The PA3 have AM-39 Exocet anti-ship missile capabilities. Mix the eyrie with the Exocet, a cruise Missile and P3c and you'l have an impressive capability.

This is very true, and I have been trying to tell members this. But to be able to link a Mirage with data-linking equipment is much more easier said than done. The Mirages are our F-18's they should be capable air craft and if not replaced by 2010. Now I dont wanna turn this is into a wish-list thread but the only way we can really reveal our Airforces/Navy's potential is to aquire around 46 Gripen fighter jets which can be split in 2 squadrons of 23. the first 23 can replace the F-7p at Masroor(they provide Mirages with air cover,but i believe that Gripen could do a better job). Those F-7 could go to Samungli.

I think a formation of 1 erieye,2 MIR-5PA3 and 2 Gripen are more than enough,capable of taking a ship back to the scrap yard. But i have got a question, is there a FULLY operational air base at Gwadar?

 

[aaaditya]

if you can manage to datalink the Mirage 5PA/PA2 you'll probably see a dramatic upward shift in PN Attack capability, PA have a Radar range of About 26+ N-Miles. The PA3 have AM-39 Exocet anti-ship missile capabilities. Mix the eyrie with the Exocet, a cruise Missile and P3c and you'l have an impressive capability.

by the way can you tell me how many mirage5's and mirage3's does pakistan have and their intended role?
and also wether the mirage5's have also been subjected to the rose upgrades?
can you please give me the specifications of the mirage5(or any website related to it)?

 

[siresoul]

Agencies add: Musharraf said Pakistan has yet to give a final go-ahead to a $1 billion purchase of an airborne surveillance system from Swedish firms Saab and Ericsson. "We haven’t decided it as yet. I need to look into it," Musharraf said in response to a question whether there would be any delay in the deal.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

 

[adsH]

by the way can you tell me how many mirage5's and mirage3's does pakistan have and their intended role?
and also wether the mirage5's have also been subjected to the rose upgrades?
can you please give me the specifications of the mirage5(or any website related to it)?

Lets Talk about Data links here, since this isn't the PAF thread lets refrain from talking about the PAF’s Mirage fleet this goes out to you too "Elite-Pilot" lets stay on topic ! Thank you