Pakistan set to commission first indigenously built submarine
- Thread starter ullu
- Start date
mysterious
New Member
Ok. The name of the second Agosta 90-B submarine is PNS "SAAD" and not "Saard". And it kinda feels good (I've been feeling it since the day it was named) when things like these in yuor country co-incide with ur own name :smokingc:
I meant to correct this earlier but forgot. These are not the first submarines to be built in Pakistan. They are in fact the second.
I doubt india's scorpeon production is going to be TOT it may be gettind assembled there in parts. France would never sell in ToT to india, India has Too much experience and there(not paticularly in Subs but they have alot of human resource) R&D is advance than pakistan hence they choose a country that will make and sell what they wan't to sell. India happens to be one of the biggest arms market why would they teach India how to build those wepons that would prevent them to sell more weapons in the future. and i am sure this Pak navy TOT deal is old i read about it first in 1996 or 1998 they were trying to aquire Mirrage 2005 TOT and the subs with TOT and Sub manufactureing plants. they already had the Mirrage rebuilt factory and i think the last time the french defense delegation came to pakistan afew months ago they took a tour of the mirage rebuild factory. apperntly they were talking about upgradeing the facility. they even toured the Ship yards i think!!
Good thing. Lets hope we can start building frigates and SSMs too 
Revival_786
New Member
What is TOT?
"transfer of technology", unless you're talking about an air strike, it then means "time on target"Revival_786 said:What is TOT?
Revival_786
New Member
lol - thanks gf0012
amit21mech
New Member
The Agosta submarines designed by DCN of France, are currently in service with the French, Spanish and Pakistan navies. The Agosta 90B is an improved version featuring higher performance and a new combat system. The new submarine features a higher level of automation, which has resulted in the ship's crew being reduced from 54 to 36. Other improvements include a new battery for increased range, a deeper diving capability of 350m resulting from the use of new materials including HLES 80 steel, and a reduced acoustic signature through the installation of new suspension and isolation systems.
Three Agosta 90Bs were ordered by the Pakistan Navy in September 1994. The first, Khalid (S137), was built at DCN's Cherbourg yard and was commissioned in 1999. The second, Saad, assembled at Karachi Naval Dockyard, was launched in August 2002 and was commissioned in December 2003. The third, Hamza, which has been constructed and assembled in Karachi, is scheduled to commission in 2004. Work on the vessel was halted following a terrorist attack in May 2002, which killed 11 French engineers in Karachi, but has since restarted. The third submarine is being fitted with the MESMA air independent propulsion system, which will be retrofitted to the first two. The MESMA AIP has successfully completed Pakistan Navy acceptance trials.
Pakistan has been given a license by DCN to offer commercial production of the submarines to potential customers.
SUBTICS COMMAND AND CONTROL SYSTEM
The Agosta 90B submarines are being equipped with a SUBTICS fully integrated combat system. This is supplied by UDS International, a joint subsidiary of DCN International and Thales (formerly Thomson-CSF). SUBTICS processes signals from the submarine's sensors, determines the tactical situation by track association, fusion, synthesis, trajectory plotting and management and handles all weapon command and control functions.
TORPEDOES
The Agosta 90B submarine is fitted with four bow 533mm torpedo tubes and has the capacity to carry a mixed load of up to 16 torpedoes and missiles. The submarine can be equipped with the ECAN F17 Mod 2 torpedo, which is a wire-guided torpedo with active and passive homing to a range of 20km. The torpedo delivers a 250kg warhead to a depth of 600m.
MBDA EXOCET SM39 MISSILES
The Agosta 90B is equipped with the torpedo tube launched MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale) Exocet SM39 missile. Target range and bearing data is downloaded into the Exocet's computer. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile approaches the target at speeds over Mach 0.9 and range is 50km. Exocet has a 165kg high-explosive shaped charge warhead.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE
The Agosta 90B submarines are being equipped with the Thales DR-3000U radar warning receiver, operating in D to K bands. The system uses a masthead antenna array with omnidirectional and monopulse directional antennae and a separate periscope warning antenna.
SENSOR SUITE
The submarine is fitted with a Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) TSM 223 sonar suite, which includes bow-mounted sonar and towed sonar arrays, SAGEM periscopes and navigation system and Thales I-band navigation radar.
PROPULSION SYSTEMS
The Agosta 90B class submarines can be equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion system or the MESMA air-independent propulsion system. The diesel-electric system consists of two SEMT-Pielstick 16 PA4 V 185 VG diesels providing 3,600hp and a 2200kW electric motor driving a single propeller..
A diesel-electrical submarine has to surface to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine, leading to increased risk of detection. The MESMA air-independent propulsion system, being fitted to the Agosta 90B submarines for Pakistan, allows the submarine to remain submerged three times longer. The MESMA system consists essentially of a turbine receiving high-pressure steam from a combustion chamber, burning a gaseous mixture of ethanol and liquid oxygen. The Agosta 90B's performance remains the same in all other respects, except that the length increases from 67m to 76m and submerged displacement from 1,760t to 2,050t.
Three Agosta 90Bs were ordered by the Pakistan Navy in September 1994. The first, Khalid (S137), was built at DCN's Cherbourg yard and was commissioned in 1999. The second, Saad, assembled at Karachi Naval Dockyard, was launched in August 2002 and was commissioned in December 2003. The third, Hamza, which has been constructed and assembled in Karachi, is scheduled to commission in 2004. Work on the vessel was halted following a terrorist attack in May 2002, which killed 11 French engineers in Karachi, but has since restarted. The third submarine is being fitted with the MESMA air independent propulsion system, which will be retrofitted to the first two. The MESMA AIP has successfully completed Pakistan Navy acceptance trials.
Pakistan has been given a license by DCN to offer commercial production of the submarines to potential customers.
SUBTICS COMMAND AND CONTROL SYSTEM
The Agosta 90B submarines are being equipped with a SUBTICS fully integrated combat system. This is supplied by UDS International, a joint subsidiary of DCN International and Thales (formerly Thomson-CSF). SUBTICS processes signals from the submarine's sensors, determines the tactical situation by track association, fusion, synthesis, trajectory plotting and management and handles all weapon command and control functions.
TORPEDOES
The Agosta 90B submarine is fitted with four bow 533mm torpedo tubes and has the capacity to carry a mixed load of up to 16 torpedoes and missiles. The submarine can be equipped with the ECAN F17 Mod 2 torpedo, which is a wire-guided torpedo with active and passive homing to a range of 20km. The torpedo delivers a 250kg warhead to a depth of 600m.
MBDA EXOCET SM39 MISSILES
The Agosta 90B is equipped with the torpedo tube launched MBDA (formerly EADS Aerospatiale) Exocet SM39 missile. Target range and bearing data is downloaded into the Exocet's computer. The missile approaches the target area in sea-skimming mode using inertial navigation and then active radar homing. The missile approaches the target at speeds over Mach 0.9 and range is 50km. Exocet has a 165kg high-explosive shaped charge warhead.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE
The Agosta 90B submarines are being equipped with the Thales DR-3000U radar warning receiver, operating in D to K bands. The system uses a masthead antenna array with omnidirectional and monopulse directional antennae and a separate periscope warning antenna.
SENSOR SUITE
The submarine is fitted with a Thales Underwater Systems (formerly Thomson Marconi Sonar) TSM 223 sonar suite, which includes bow-mounted sonar and towed sonar arrays, SAGEM periscopes and navigation system and Thales I-band navigation radar.
PROPULSION SYSTEMS
The Agosta 90B class submarines can be equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion system or the MESMA air-independent propulsion system. The diesel-electric system consists of two SEMT-Pielstick 16 PA4 V 185 VG diesels providing 3,600hp and a 2200kW electric motor driving a single propeller..
A diesel-electrical submarine has to surface to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine, leading to increased risk of detection. The MESMA air-independent propulsion system, being fitted to the Agosta 90B submarines for Pakistan, allows the submarine to remain submerged three times longer. The MESMA system consists essentially of a turbine receiving high-pressure steam from a combustion chamber, burning a gaseous mixture of ethanol and liquid oxygen. The Agosta 90B's performance remains the same in all other respects, except that the length increases from 67m to 76m and submerged displacement from 1,760t to 2,050t.
amit21mech
New Member
Somebody here asked "What is Akula?" . Akula is a class of Russian submarine and India is taking two of this class on lease from Russia. And just to compare Akula and Agosta here are the specifications of Akula.
DESIGN
The submarine has a double-hulled configuration with a distinctive high aft fin. The hull has seven compartments and the stand-off distance between the outer and inner hulls is considerable, reducing the possible inner hull damage. The very low acoustic signature has been achieved by incremental design improvements to minimise noise generation and transmission – for example, the installation of active noise cancellation techniques.
The retractable masts viewed from bow to stern are the periscopes, radar antennae, radio and satellite communications and navigation masts.
MISSILES
The Akula class carry up to twelve Granat submarine launched cruise missiles. The missiles are fired from the 533mm torpedo launch tubes. Granat (NATO designation: SS-N-21 Sampson) has a range of about 3,000km and delivers a 200kt warhead. The CEP (the circle of equal probability) is 150m. The CEP value is a measure of the accuracy of strike on the target and is the radius of the circle within which half the strikes will impact. The land attack Granat missile uses inertial and terrain following guidance.
The submarine's anti-ship missiles are the Novator SS-N-15 Starfish and the Novator SS-N-16 Stallion. The Starfish, fired from the 533mm tubes, has a target range of 45km. The Stallion, fired from the 650mm tubes, has a longer range of up to 100km. The Stallion and the Starfish can be armed with a 200kt warhead or a Type 40 torpedo.
An air defence capability is provided by a Strela SA-N-5/8 portable missile launcher with 18 missiles.
TORPEDOES
The submarine has eight torpedo launch tubes, four 650mm and four 533mm tubes. The Improved Akula and Akula II have ten, with six 533mm tubes. The four 650mm tubes can be fitted with liners to provide additional 533mm weapon launch capacity. The torpedo tubes can be used to launch mines instead of torpedoes. The Akula can launch a range of anti-submarine and anti-surface vessel torpedoes.
SENSORS
The Akula's surface search radar is the Snoop Pair or the Snoop Half. The surface search radar antennae are installed on the same mast as the Rim Hat radar intercept receiver.
The submarine is fitted with the MGK 540 sonar system which provides automatic target detection in broad and narrow band modes by active sonar. It gives the range, relative bearing and range rate. The sonar system can also be used in a passive, listening mode for detection of hostile sonars. The sonar signal processor can detect and automatically classify targets as well as reject spurious acoustic noise sources and compensate for variable acoustic conditions.
PROPULSION
The main machinery consists of a VM-5 pressure water reactor rated at 190MW with a GT3A turbine developing 35MW. Two auxiliary diesels rated at 750hp provide emergency power. The propulsion system drives a seven-bladed fixed-pitch propeller.
The propulsion system provides a maximum submerged speed of 33 knots and a surface speed of 10 knots. A reserve propeller system, powered by two motors rated at 370kW, provides a speed of 3 to 4 knots. The submarine is rated for a diving depth to 600m.
DESIGN
The submarine has a double-hulled configuration with a distinctive high aft fin. The hull has seven compartments and the stand-off distance between the outer and inner hulls is considerable, reducing the possible inner hull damage. The very low acoustic signature has been achieved by incremental design improvements to minimise noise generation and transmission – for example, the installation of active noise cancellation techniques.
The retractable masts viewed from bow to stern are the periscopes, radar antennae, radio and satellite communications and navigation masts.
MISSILES
The Akula class carry up to twelve Granat submarine launched cruise missiles. The missiles are fired from the 533mm torpedo launch tubes. Granat (NATO designation: SS-N-21 Sampson) has a range of about 3,000km and delivers a 200kt warhead. The CEP (the circle of equal probability) is 150m. The CEP value is a measure of the accuracy of strike on the target and is the radius of the circle within which half the strikes will impact. The land attack Granat missile uses inertial and terrain following guidance.
The submarine's anti-ship missiles are the Novator SS-N-15 Starfish and the Novator SS-N-16 Stallion. The Starfish, fired from the 533mm tubes, has a target range of 45km. The Stallion, fired from the 650mm tubes, has a longer range of up to 100km. The Stallion and the Starfish can be armed with a 200kt warhead or a Type 40 torpedo.
An air defence capability is provided by a Strela SA-N-5/8 portable missile launcher with 18 missiles.
TORPEDOES
The submarine has eight torpedo launch tubes, four 650mm and four 533mm tubes. The Improved Akula and Akula II have ten, with six 533mm tubes. The four 650mm tubes can be fitted with liners to provide additional 533mm weapon launch capacity. The torpedo tubes can be used to launch mines instead of torpedoes. The Akula can launch a range of anti-submarine and anti-surface vessel torpedoes.
SENSORS
The Akula's surface search radar is the Snoop Pair or the Snoop Half. The surface search radar antennae are installed on the same mast as the Rim Hat radar intercept receiver.
The submarine is fitted with the MGK 540 sonar system which provides automatic target detection in broad and narrow band modes by active sonar. It gives the range, relative bearing and range rate. The sonar system can also be used in a passive, listening mode for detection of hostile sonars. The sonar signal processor can detect and automatically classify targets as well as reject spurious acoustic noise sources and compensate for variable acoustic conditions.
PROPULSION
The main machinery consists of a VM-5 pressure water reactor rated at 190MW with a GT3A turbine developing 35MW. Two auxiliary diesels rated at 750hp provide emergency power. The propulsion system drives a seven-bladed fixed-pitch propeller.
The propulsion system provides a maximum submerged speed of 33 knots and a surface speed of 10 knots. A reserve propeller system, powered by two motors rated at 370kW, provides a speed of 3 to 4 knots. The submarine is rated for a diving depth to 600m.
Roger Smith
New Member
Amit
Your aforementioned postings are very informative & thanks. :smokingc:
Your aforementioned postings are very informative & thanks. :smokingc:
Yes apperently it was me(who asked for what akula was and i think my Message has mysteriously disappeared i think this calls for an investigation, i might start looking into conspiracy theorys :alian2
Well thanks for those specs Amit!!.
Well according to what amit gave us as specs we can safely asume that Plaatform wise the French sub comes fully kitted with up to date systems i am sure the indians would purchase the subs updated no one is that dull !! to actually lease or purchase subs that are old as those that amit stated, i am sure the russians would update those for the iindian Navy but if this is what Indian navy has then i think the only subs indian navy would be able to counter Pak navy sub would be the new scorpion subs. but that would only happen when those subs are inducted and the crew spends a considerable time training moving up from a older sub to modern sub is no joke. while in Paknavy they have been operateing agusta and have had considerable combat time and training (maybe thats why they bought those subs) plus the new augostas system can be retrofitted into the older augoustas to update there other augusta fleets. (the new systems training must of taken them a long time)but they have had ten years for all that.
Isn't a Nuke Ship more noisy than a new diesel sub!!!
I always stress on training rather than platform i am sure india with its akula class can defeate the paknavy agoustas if they have sufficiant training and real war experience its all about training and experience underwater.the sea can be an unforgiving place and first mistake does not necessarily mean you will get that chance to do another one.A Pen is only as good, as the writer that writes with it.
Well thanks for those specs Amit!!.
Well according to what amit gave us as specs we can safely asume that Plaatform wise the French sub comes fully kitted with up to date systems i am sure the indians would purchase the subs updated no one is that dull !! to actually lease or purchase subs that are old as those that amit stated, i am sure the russians would update those for the iindian Navy but if this is what Indian navy has then i think the only subs indian navy would be able to counter Pak navy sub would be the new scorpion subs. but that would only happen when those subs are inducted and the crew spends a considerable time training moving up from a older sub to modern sub is no joke. while in Paknavy they have been operateing agusta and have had considerable combat time and training (maybe thats why they bought those subs) plus the new augostas system can be retrofitted into the older augoustas to update there other augusta fleets. (the new systems training must of taken them a long time)but they have had ten years for all that.
Isn't a Nuke Ship more noisy than a new diesel sub!!!
I always stress on training rather than platform i am sure india with its akula class can defeate the paknavy agoustas if they have sufficiant training and real war experience its all about training and experience underwater.the sea can be an unforgiving place and first mistake does not necessarily mean you will get that chance to do another one.A Pen is only as good, as the writer that writes with it.