NZDF General discussion thread

[StingrayOZ]

NSM was specifically designed to be lightweight, easy to install and to fit into existing weight and space margins. It may even be doable for Australia to do this for them, as the CMS is already integrated. It's basically physically putting launch boxes onto the ship. If weight and space is an issue, its possible to configure it as 2 lots of 2xNSM launch boxes. But even the NSM x4 launcher is a much much lighter than the harpoon x4 launcher. I suspect that the NZ ships are still within the original engineering space/weight margin allocations for the Meko ships designs. They haven't customised the hell out of them like Australia has.

Australia has bolted on NSM onto Hobarts and Anzacs. This isn't beyond that capability and experience. But I would presume almost anyone could, the Norwegians, the Poms, the germans, the Canadians would all be happy to bolt them on.

Canadians can workout consoles and software for firing. They can probably do that from Canada via software. They are multifunction after all. If if that took ~12+ months to sort out, and a test firing wasn't scheduled for 18 months, it shouldn't really impact NZ operation and deployment, as software development can happen away from the ship, and outside of the ship in drydock.

Personally I think if the NZ increases defence spending, it should be spread across all 3 services. You don't need to rob peter to pay paul, and that just breeds infighting and hostile solos. It doesn't have to be equal. The NZ army can acquire useful maritime capabilities as well. Including its own NSM launchers. It could look at artillery, amphibious vehicles, air defence, helicopters, all of which would be useful in a maritime domain as well. Plenty of other armies have acquired significant capabilities in this space.

As for air force, NZ wouldn't be interested in 36 slightly used Superhornets would they?

 

[kiwi in exile]

Re land vs nonland capabilities. If we are talking bout defending our or nearby island nations from an invasion force we have already failed to a large extent.

 

[Hawkeye69]

I read that Australia now have more MR-60R Seahawks than decks to land them on, I would not be surprised if both Australia and NZ Government officials have not been in some form of discussion on a NZ short term lease of a few of the excess platforms while we await our new builds.Pilot conversion training could easily take place in Australia.

You will see I show no faith in the Wildcat, its a lemon product from europe.

 

[kiwi in exile]

Re. NSM Australia will manufacture the joint strike missile variant. Us acquiring this from them would be a win-win in terms of interoperability, trans Tasman relations and supply security. Makes it a good competitor with LRASM for nzdf. Would be prudent to have capability and training, experience operating both from our p8s at least.

Integration to our ANZACs make sense if it is quick light and cheap, or in Australia and our ships are not out of action for long.

My preference is to steam ahead with the replacements, pending the RAN GP frigate decision my

 

[StevoJH]

I read that Australia now have more MR-60R Seahawks than decks to land them on, I would not be surprised if both Australia and NZ Government officials have not been in some form of discussion on a NZ short term lease of a few of the excess platforms while we await our new builds.Pilot conversion training could easily take place in Australia.

You will see I show no faith in the Wildcat, its a lemon product from europe.

Not exactly.

Don't forget training requirements, plus the Supply Class and Canberra Class.

Theoretically the two Canberra class could carry and operate the entire fleet between them.

 

[Todjaeger]

Not exactly.

Don't forget training requirements, plus the Supply Class and Canberra Class.

Theoretically the two Canberra class could carry and operate the entire fleet between them.

Not to mention the maintenance requirements. In the original Australian MH-60R order back in 2011, 24 were ordered to ensure that there would be eight available for service from RAN vessels, the normal 3:1 ratio to permit aircraft & crews being rotated for training and maintenance cycles as well.

 

[John Fedup]

NSM was specifically designed to be lightweight, easy to install and to fit into existing weight and space margins. It may even be doable for Australia to do this for them, as the CMS is already integrated. It's basically physically putting launch boxes onto the ship. If weight and space is an issue, its possible to configure it as 2 lots of 2xNSM launch boxes. But even the NSM x4 launcher is a much much lighter than the harpoon x4 launcher. I suspect that the NZ ships are still within the original engineering space/weight margin allocations for the Meko ships designs. They haven't customised the hell out of them like Australia has.

Australia has bolted on NSM onto Hobarts and Anzacs. This isn't beyond that capability and experience. But I would presume almost anyone could, the Norwegians, the Poms, the germans, the Canadians would all be happy to bolt them on.

Canadians can workout consoles and software for firing. They can probably do that from Canada via software. They are multifunction after all. If if that took ~12+ months to sort out, and a test firing wasn't scheduled for 18 months, it shouldn't really impact NZ operation and deployment, as software development can happen away from the ship, and outside of the ship in drydock.

Personally I think if the NZ increases defence spending, it should be spread across all 3 services. You don't need to rob peter to pay paul, and that just breeds infighting and hostile solos. It doesn't have to be equal. The NZ army can acquire useful maritime capabilities as well. Including its own NSM launchers. It could look at artillery, amphibious vehicles, air defence, helicopters, all of which would be useful in a maritime domain as well. Plenty of other armies have acquired significant capabilities in this space.

As for air force, NZ wouldn't be interested in 36 slightly used Superhornets would they?

Perhaps another 5EYE might be interested although IOTUS would probably block it.

 

[kiwi in exile]

The YT amateur aussie defence analyst video posted a page or so back regarding the DCP shows Andurils UUV but thjis wasn't picked up for any folow up discussion on the thread.

These would be great for us: deployable, persistent stealth underwater ISR with some potential lethality. Here's a video about Australian Anduril UUV
This is exactly the kind of capability we are looking for but the thread has been strangly silent on this. Maybe some of the older hands still find the idea or unmanned and autonomous strange, better to stick with 2nd hand 4th gen fighters for the future ACF I would suggest that a fleet of these could be cheaper and have more deterrent value that 3 new frigates.

Anduril has been mentioend as an alternative to legacy defence supplies/aquisition in covereage of the DCP (unsure but I think Collins mentioned them by name at a press conference). They are setting up acropss the Tasman. Job opportunities and sector growth potential here as mentioned in DCP.

Also testing Anduril C-UAS in Australia. Look at the test facility. Their should be something like this at Waiorou for MOUT training.
Also Anduril Barracuda 500 as a compettitor/complimentary capability to our future LRASM/JSM. And could be used with a Rapid Dragon system on out C130s. "The system has been successfully used with C-130 and C-17 cargo planes to strike both land and sea targets with armed and test version JASSM-ERs. " Hence no need to buy overpriced manned fast air. We see the threats early with our improved maritime domain awarness (UUVs as part of this mix) and we prosecute them early at safe standoff ranges with multiple AShMs with superior standoff range.

Disclaimer: despite all the links to Andurils youtube, I do not work for or hold shares in Anduril or any of their subsidiaries. Just a fan that wants a credible combat capable deterrent NZDF.

 

[downunderblue]

The YT amateur aussie defence analyst video posted a page or so back regarding the DCP shows Andurils UUV but thjis wasn't picked up for any folow up discussion on the thread.

These would be great for us: deployable, persistent stealth underwater ISR with some potential lethality. Here's a video about Australian Anduril UUV
This is exactly the kind of capability we are looking for but the thread has been strangly silent on this. Maybe some of the older hands still find the idea or unmanned and autonomous strange, better to stick with 2nd hand 4th gen fighters for the future ACF I would suggest that a fleet of these could be cheaper and have more deterrent value that 3 new frigates.

Anduril has been mentioend as an alternative to legacy defence supplies/aquisition in covereage of the DCP (unsure but I think Collins mentioned them by name at a press conference). They are setting up acropss the Tasman. Job opportunities and sector growth potential here as mentioned in DCP.
Also testing Anduril C-UAS in Australia. Look at the test facility. Their should be something like this at Waiorou for MOUT training.
Also Anduril Barracuda 500 as a compettitor/complimentary capability to our future LRASM/JSM. And could be used with a Rapid Dragon system on out C130s. "The system has been successfully used with C-130 and C-17 cargo planes to strike both land and sea targets with armed and test version JASSM-ERs. " Hence no need to buy overpriced manned fast air. We see the threats early with our improved maritime domain awarness (UUVs as part of this mix) and we prosecute them early at safe standoff ranges with multiple AShMs with superior standoff range.

Disclaimer: despite all the links to Andurils youtube, I do not work for or hold shares in Anduril or any of their subsidiaries. Just a fan that wants a credible combat capable deterrent NZDF.

Just on Rapid Dragon, I had a look on it the other day and it's not quite their yet. I'm not sure what the blocker is but it's budget is still with the Air Force Strategic Development Planning & Experimentation (SDPE) office and despite what appears to be an obvious benefit there doesn't seem to be any urgency here. The theatre commands seem to be focusing on other capabilities atm.