NZDF General discussion thread

[spoz]

Your other problem would be that those other countries, while probably very willing to help, are unlikely to have spare platforms and gash instructors just sitting around awaiting NZ’s call; Aust, US and Singapore (if that is your non 5 Is) are all pretty fully stretched doing their own thing. Not sure Canada has the capability to help given it’s own problems, and as for the UK, if rhetoric is anything to go by they, too are stretched.

 

[Rob c]

Ngat and Rob c,
Worse than that, is that it's not just $ and time:
1. I have seen the NZDF, at all levels, not understanding the true depth of the problem due to a dearth of professional knowledge and internal social-engineering (removing the warrior, esprit de corp); and,
2. Therefore, no 'independent and fierce' military advice for NZG (even if it was listened to).
Tack onto this the NZ political circus since the 1980's and I see no cause for optimism or recognition of our own unique National Security problem, until it's too late.
Ma te Atua e tiaki a Aotearoa

Yep I totally agree with you. The rise of the bean counters to the point that they control most things and the changing of the senior commanders from military officers into senior bureaucrat's, is a case in point. The systems which have been imbedded money wise into Defence, supposedly to stop budget problems for major projects, has seen more poor choices in major projects since the year 2000 than I think from memory I have seen in any similar period before. The MILITARY has been dragged out of the NZD forces.

 

[Kiwigov]

To be fair to MoD, it's not just NZ dealing with these issues (which have historical parallels with the infamous '10 year rule' for defence spending set by the UK Treasury in the 1920s and 1930s). Australia's procurement problems have been well-documented, though it seems the RAAF has been less-affected by a logical choice for US types rather than Euro or domestic manufacturing (and international plaudits for their initiative in leading a 737 AWACs conversion). The post-war 'glory days' for NZ procurement were in the 1960s, following AVM Morrison leadership of new aircraft fleets, the RNZN choice of Leander frigates, and the Army purchase of M-113s (though less said about the tank choices the better).
Of course all those assets were then over-used for decades and wore out, despite upgrades. The ANZAC frigates in the early 1990s were a good option with significant local industry input, and given the choices available and the need to work with Australia.
Project Protector has at least resulted in a useful new amphib and patrol capacity.

 

[John Fedup]

Your other problem would be that those other countries, while probably very willing to help, are unlikely to have spare platforms and gash instructors just sitting around awaiting NZ’s call; Aust, US and Singapore (if that is your non 5 Is) are all pretty fully stretched doing their own thing. Not sure Canada has the capability to help given it’s own problems, and as for the UK, if rhetoric is anything to go by they, too are stretched.

Canada most definitely lacks the capability to help and this is unlikely to improve anytime soon. If pending procurement projects fall off the rails, things will worsen.

 

[ngatimozart]

If we were to utilise FVEY partners for LIFT it wouldn't be with one partner, but the idea would be to spread the students out amongst all four. This way each partner may only have a maximum of say three to five students per year. The students could then spend a year or two on exchange with the host nation, building their skill sets before RTNZ. These students could be enrolled as part of the host nation normal LIFT course schedules, so any extra courses etc., won't be required.

 

[Exkiwiforces]

Sounds like someone has been a very naughty boy? Not sure if anyone has seen these questions from the National’s new
Spokesperson, some very interesting questions for the PM to answer?

 

[Shanesworld]

Sounds like someone has been a very naughty boy? Not sure if anyone has seen these questions from the National’s new
Spokesperson, some very interesting questions for the PM to answer?

View attachment 48745

Ooooohhh....... So very, very, very interested to hear more on this subject.

 

[ngatimozart]

Sounds like someone has been a very naughty boy? Not sure if anyone has seen these questions from the National’s new
Spokesperson, some very interesting questions for the PM to answer?

Hadn't seen those and yes looks like somebody has been really naughty. Definitely appears to be our MIA Defence Minister because he lodged six questions at the same time for the Defence Minister.


Written questions - New Zealand Parliament (www.parliament.nz)

As with the ones to the PM, the reply is due tomorrow. Whether or not that happens is another story. Something indeed is smelling a tad ripe and it's similar to fish left in a hot place for a few days. Sorry the image isn't the best, but the link takes you straight to them.

 

[Simon Ewing Jarvie]

Merry Christmas to everyone. Each year, at this time of the year, I post an article thanking the defence force personnel who are serving overseas. In the last few weeks, I've been hearing of increasing hostility toward our troops and others from some detainees in MIQ. Spitting, physical abuse and calling them Nazis. Whatever your view of MIQ, this is not on, so my Xmas wish to troops is specifically for those in MIQ and includes a pointed message for the entitled few who think they can do this. A Xmas Shout-Out to MIQ Staff

 

[ngatimozart]

It appears that the NZ attitude towards the CCP / PRC maybe hardening. Paul Buchanan a defence analyst believes that something has shifted in the government foreign affairs, defence and security policy thinking in recent months. He believes that the government bureaucracy is undergoing a major shift in logic due to CCP / PRC behaviour rather than pressure from FVEY partners. This has now permeated to Cabinet level. If this is indeed so then it is welcome. How it will manifest itself is another story. Any previous reasonable NZG would look at increasing defence capabilities across the board and would be capable of doing so. However even if the current government decides to do so, their execution of their decisions leaves a lot to be desired.

'Something has shifted' in NZ's security and foreign policy for China, says analyst | RNZ News

As usual the CCP / PRC Embassy accused NZ and FVEY of interfering in the PRCs internal affairs.

In a statement on Tuesday, New Zealand's Chinese Embassy claimed the elections are "politically inclusive, and ensures balanced participation and fair competition".​

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It also urged the Five Eyes alliance to "respect China's sovereignty, abide by international law and basic norms for international relations, be discreet with their words and deeds".​

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The embassy said it was "strongly concerned about and firmly opposed" to the statement, which it claims "smeared the Legislative Council election".​

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The embassy said no country had the right to use the joint declaration as a cover to interfere in Hong Kong affairs.​

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"Hong Kong is part of China. How to develop democracy in the SAR is purely China's domestic affair.​

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"Whether Hong Kong's democratic system is good or not should be judged by the Chinese people, including Hong Kong compatriots.​

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"Attempts to interfere in China's domestic affairs and mess up Hong Kong are all doomed to failure."​

The CCP / PRC Embassy in Canberra was somewhat more strident in its corresponding statement.

"In recent years, the Australia side has gone all out to hype up its opposition to so-called 'foreign interference', while in the meantime, constantly finding various excuses to violently interfere in China's internal affairs which fully reveals its hypocritical nature of 'double standards'." ​

So they'll still somewhat septic with Australia.

China accuses New Zealand and Five Eyes of interference over criticism of Hong Kong legislative elections | RNZ News

 

[spoz]

That’s rather undiplomatic of them, isn’t it? One normally doesn’t go out of one’s way to publicly criticise a country in which one is resident as a diplomat. Time to declare somebody persona non grata possibly?

 

[ngatimozart]

That’s rather undiplomatic of them, isn’t it? One normally doesn’t go out of one’s way to publicly criticise a country in which one is resident as a diplomat. Time to declare somebody persona non grata possibly?

Yep, more than one.

 

[swerve]

That’s rather undiplomatic of them, isn’t it? One normally doesn’t go out of one’s way to publicly criticise a country in which one is resident as a diplomat. Time to declare somebody persona non grata possibly?

B-b-b-b-but they're Chinese! Obviously, it's a self-evident fact that the Middle Kingdom is superior to all other nations & they should kow-tow to its magnificence. Insolence is against the natural order. By criticising it Chinese diplomats are acting in the best interests of barbarian nations, giving them an opportunity to humbly apologise for their breaches of protocol & attempts to upset the divinely ordained order of the world & thus avoid the righteous wrath of China.

 

[ngatimozart]

I follow a couple of YouTube channels to try and elicit some PRC news. Lei's Real Talk is ok and is run by a private individual based in the US. The other is NTD run by the Epoch Media Group which in turn is operated by Falun Gong in the US. It has taken a bit of a strident US right wing view which is a bit of a pity because IMHO that's ruined its value as a source. However given that, it still has some value because it does broad cast new from within the PRC, which is of some value. It's always helpful to try and gain an understanding of what is going on amongst the population in the hinterland behind the bamboo curtain.

Two days ago Lei post a video reviewing Indo Pacific developments in 2021 and she talks about NZ's change in attitude towards the CCP / PRC. The full video is below. NTD in their recent video news have also mentioned at least twice that I am aware NZ's not sending diplomates to the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing. We are mentioned in the same breathe as the four other FVEY nations and Lithuania* with all six flags displayed prominently.

So our change in stance hasn't gone unnoticed outside of govt and defence circles. The CCP will be monitoring both those channels so they will be cogitating and working on a response.

* For those who are unaware, the Lithuanians have really annoyed the CCP by authorising the establishment of a Taiwanese Liaison Office in Vilnius and the CCP has banned all Lithuanian exports to the PRC. It's also attempting to stand over multinationals from doing business in or with Lithuania. The Lithuanians, in response, have given the CCP / PRC the middle finger salute. The EU has sided with Lithuania.

 

[Todjaeger]

I follow a couple of YouTube channels to try and elicit some PRC news. Lei's Real Talk is ok and is run by a private individual based in the US. The other is NTD run by the Epoch Media Group which in turn is operated by Falun Gong in the US. It has taken a bit of a strident US right wing view which is a bit of a pity because IMHO that's ruined its value as a source. However given that, it still has some value because it does broad cast new from within the PRC, which is of some value. It's always helpful to try and gain an understanding of what is going on amongst the population in the hinterland behind the bamboo curtain.

My personal opinion here, but I place little value in what comes out of Epoch, as there have been too many things I have run across from them which are conspiracy theory-level items. It got to the point where I was factchecking everything that I came across from them, at which point it lost all value as a source since I could only consider content which I confirmed elsewhere as being accurate. At that point, I was just better off looking elsewhere and then did so.

 

[ngatimozart]

My personal opinion here, but I place little value in what comes out of Epoch, as there have been too many things I have run across from them which are conspiracy theory-level items. It got to the point where I was factchecking everything that I came across from them, at which point it lost all value as a source since I could only consider content which I confirmed elsewhere as being accurate. At that point, I was just better off looking elsewhere and then did so.

That's why I treat them with a fair degree of caution.

 

[ngatimozart]

Interesting article on how the current crisis in the Ukraine between Russia and the west will impact upon NZ. It looks at the threats to NZ.

Ukraine might be far away, but a security crisis in Europe can still threaten Aotearoa | RNZ News

 

[Rob c]

Interesting article on how the current crisis in the Ukraine between Russia and the west will impact upon NZ. It looks at the threats to NZ.

Ukraine might be far away, but a security crisis in Europe can still threaten Aotearoa | RNZ News

Very interesting article, but I would still predict that the NZ government in this increasingly unstable world, will continue to sit on it's hands for as long as possible until everything come crashing down around them.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Very interesting article, but I would still predict that the NZ government in this increasingly unstable world, will continue to sit on it's hands for as long as possible until everything come crashing down around them.

I wouldn't think China and Russia are best of freinds. given that China also STILL has historic claims to parts of Russia too.State owned Chinese media in recent years has made statements to that fact about Vladivostoc.

They haven't honored sovereign rites of India and Tibet and others , Russia must know its only a matter of time, nuclear power or not.

 

[ngatimozart]

I wouldn't think China and Russia are best of freinds. given that China also STILL has historic claims to parts of Russia too.State owned Chinese media in recent years has made statements to that fact about Vladivostoc.

They haven't honored sovereign rites of India and Tibet and others , Russia must know its only a matter of time, nuclear power or not.

No they're not bosom buddies, but at present they have more common interests than discordant interests. They both understand that they have far greater probability of achieving their goals by working together in areas of mutual interest.

Very interesting article, but I would still predict that the NZ government in this increasingly unstable world, will continue to sit on it's hands for as long as possible until everything come crashing down around them.

I don't know. I think that they are having the hard word put on them by three particular FVEY partners and there's more stories in the media about the PRC threat so the public are becoming more aware. The usual suspects are decrying it as China bashing and / or we are going to ruin our economy, but more are taking notice and seeing past that. I have made a habit of reading the comments and there appears to be a change in tone with a strengthening of resolve towards a stronger stance against China. Some have said that we don't have enough ships, planes, and soldiers. Although it's totally unscientific anecdotal evidence, I do think that the public attitude towards China is becoming harder and towards Defence more favourable.

Another point is that the government has been hardening its stance towards the CCP / PRC and in the last six months has given NZ businesses warnings to diversify their markets away from China. We do know that Grant Robertson, Minister of Finance, has been trying to place the $20 billion defence upgrades on the back burner because of his COVID-19 spending. From memory he is one of Uncle Helen's acolytes so isn't defence friendly. Given their history and ideological bias, I am like you not optimistic but I think (hope) that their hand will be forced in this by public opinion and our FVEY partners.