NZDF General discussion thread

[Raven22]

A big laugh is the number of Army Reserve MPs (and reservists in general) who or police members in civilian life. God help a transgressor who does something bad, or stupid enough to justify a cop to recall themselves to duty while on reserve service, the amount of paperwork would be phenomenal and ensure the officer concerned was already more than annoyed at the situation.

There has actually been a number of times when this has been an issue, and people who are both civilian police and Reserve soldiers have tried to do both at the same time. Suffice to say that legally it is one or the other - if in defence uniform an individual can have no civilian policing powers, and if off duty and out of defence uniform a Reservist has no powers under the defence act/DFDA.

There was one funny incident a few years ago where a defence vehicle driven by soldiers was pulled over by a civilian police officer, who also showed them his defence ID (a reserve SNCO) and asked to see their military paperwork to authorise use of the vehicle. The driver told him to go f#*% himself as he wasn't on duty. The Reserve SNCO then tried to charge the soldiers (a military charge) for disobeying orders. The Reserve SNCO was very quickly and forcefully put back in his box by the chain of command, and told to stop being such a wanker.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Actually, State governments have no ability to give emergency police powers to defence personnel. Defence personnel providing aid to the civil power is a constitutional issue, and as per the Defence Act it requires a formal 'Call Out' with both the PM and GG signing off. Such is the difficulty it wouldn't be done outside of a significant national emergency. The normal work around is for small numbers of civilian police being attached to defence units - the defence personnel do all the busy work and then when required grab the police to do the actual arrest/detention etc.

yep, was aware that it needed the formal request to the GG first, and then through to the PM via expected follow on discussions with the NSC.

there's been a few times of evolving State Emergencies where ADF have been sitting on their duff with available resources but can't do anything because the mechanics of the instrumental process haven't occurred

 

[40 deg south]

Housing crisis hits NZ Defence Force | Newshub

RNZAF feeling the squeeze on Auckland housing, although the bottom paras suggest they are handling it ok.

Hundreds of Defence Force civilians to strike | Newshub

After pay negotiation breakdowns, New Zealand Defence civilian workers go on strike | Stuff.co.nz

Trouble at t'mill!
The government has kept very tight control over public sector wages for the past 9 years. Now that the budget is coming back into surplus (due, in large part to that cost control) there will be real pressure to hand out some more generous increases.

 

[ADMk2]

Actually, State governments have no ability to give emergency police powers to defence personnel. Defence personnel providing aid to the civil power is a constitutional issue, and as per the Defence Act it requires a formal 'Call Out' with both the PM and GG signing off. Such is the difficulty it wouldn't be done outside of a significant national emergency. The normal work around is for small numbers of civilian police being attached to defence units - the defence personnel do all the busy work and then when required grab the police to do the actual arrest/detention etc.

That is for a formal call out procedure for defence units to assist the civil power. It is nit-picking but other means do exist for specific roles and Police Commissioners can and do swear in Defence personnel as Special Constables for particular operations. It would never be the case that particular units as a whole would be, but elements that are seconded to LEO agencies within Australia are so sworn. They have to be in order to undertake the duties of those secondments.

 

[MrConservative]

Very happy to hear that Mark Mitchell is going to be the new Minister of Defence.

I know Mark and he will do a great job. He is one of the few MP's who understands the brief.

Mark has worked in close protection in Iraq in the past and up until recently been Select Committee Chair for Defence and Foreign Affairs.

I and others thought Big Gerry might stay but Mark is a good choice!

 

[Cadredave]

Very happy to hear that Mark Mitchell is going to be the new Minister of Defence.

I know Mark and he will do a great job. He is one of the few MP's who understands the brief.

Mark has worked in close protection in Iraq in the past and up until recently been Select Committee Chair for Defence and Foreign Affairs.

I and others thought Big Gerry might stay but Mark is a good choice!

That's a great call having Mark replace Big Gerry NZDF and MOD need a Minister of his calibre good choice in my book

 

[RubiconNZ]

That's a great call having Mark replace Big Gerry NZDF and MOD need a Minister of his calibre good choice in my book

Glad to hear the positive opinions on this appointment. Just to check will Mark Mitchell just have Defence now?
If so, that is a step in the right direction acknowledge that Defence should be a full time role, not divided amongst other portfolios.

 

[MrConservative]

Glad to hear the positive opinions on this appointment. Just to check will Mark Mitchell just have Defence now?
If so, that is a step in the right direction acknowledge that Defence should be a full time role, not divided amongst other portfolios.

He will still retain the Land Information portfolio which is a essentially an oversight and sign off situation. All ministers have secondary portfolios these days.

 

[ngatimozart]

Story in todays NZ Herald about the new Minister of Defence, Mark Mitchell. He's had an interesting life which should bring good skills to the job.

Our most intriguing Defence Minister ever?

 

[RubiconNZ]

He will still retain the Land Information portfolio which is a essentially an oversight and sign off situation. All ministers have secondary portfolios these days.

Fair enough, I suppose my thoughts was along the lines of the multi-portfolios of Coleman? and Brownlee.

 

[ngatimozart]

NZDF have been practising their amphib capabilities at Army Bay, which IIRC, is on the Whangaparaora Peninsula.

 

[Rob c]

A quick snap shot from the budget.
The Defence Force has been given a budget boost with $406 million for its operations and $576m for capital spending over the next four years.
Defence Minister Mark Mitchell says it's a major increase.
"It is vital that the NZDF has what it needs to meet the country's security and defence interests," he said.
"One of our biggest priorities is ensuring the NZDF has the right people with the right training ready when needed, and this funding will support a range of personnel initiatives."
Capital funding includes:
* $100m to improve defence camps and bases throughout the country, including facility upgrades in Auckland, Manawatu and Canterbury
* $301.7m for the Littoral Operations Support Ship and the Frigate Communications Upgrade
* $36.1m to replace the underwater intelligence, surveillance systems fitted to the RNZAF's six P-3K2 Orions
* $28.2m for counter-explosive hazard and counter-improvised explosive device capability
* $110m to invest in a modern, efficient logistics system that will enable smaller fleets of military equipment to be held and to ensure that equipment is safe. The other source I read only said that the operational amount was over 4 years and not the capital amount.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11863068

 

[ngatimozart]

A quick snap shot from the budget.
The Defence Force has been given a budget boost with $406 million for its operations and $576m for capital spending over the next four years.
Defence Minister Mark Mitchell says it's a major increase.
"It is vital that the NZDF has what it needs to meet the country's security and defence interests," he said.
"One of our biggest priorities is ensuring the NZDF has the right people with the right training ready when needed, and this funding will support a range of personnel initiatives."
Capital funding includes:
* $100m to improve defence camps and bases throughout the country, including facility upgrades in Auckland, Manawatu and Canterbury
* $301.7m for the Littoral Operations Support Ship and the Frigate Communications Upgrade
* $36.1m to replace the underwater intelligence, surveillance systems fitted to the RNZAF's six P-3K2 Orions
* $28.2m for counter-explosive hazard and counter-improvised explosive device capability
* $110m to invest in a modern, efficient logistics system that will enable smaller fleets of military equipment to be held and to ensure that equipment is safe. The other source I read only said that the operational amount was over 4 years and not the capital amount.

Post a source / link please.

I sorted it out for him NG. All good!

 

[Rob c]

Post a source / link please.

I sorted it out for him NG. All good!

Sorry, came from my windows 10 news and won't allow a source, could only copy and paste. Ta Mr C

 

[recce.k1]

In terms of the figures I read it as $406m new extra operating funding (over 4 years) but $576m in new capital funding for FY2017/18 itself (i.e. not over 4 years). Over the next 4 years new capital funding (at this point in time) is projected to be $2.21b for these projects already defined in budget 2017 docs (source - page 5).

So I guess that's also excluding any new projects coming online in the next few years (FASC,FAMC etc)...

Other defence related docs:

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2017/estimates/v4/est17-v4-defen.pdf

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2017/estimates/v4/est17-v4-deffor.pdf

So unless I'm mistaken the Govt has boosted defence expenditure. Although just reading the MSM and Labour and NZ First are saying respectively it's "steady as she goes" and "not significant". (Source). Are the Opposition Parties living in a parallel universe or something? Or simply proving yet again they are unfit for governing with their auto-opposite reality double-speak? And instead of criticism I'd like to know what Labour and ("pro-defence") NZ First would do better? Especially as Newshub reported recently that both those two Parties would cut the $20b DCP project funding! Certainly we seem to be living in strange times!

 

[MrConservative]

* $301.7m for the Littoral Operations Support Ship and the Frigate Communications Upgrade

With a further $100m needed to finish off the Anzac upgrades over the next couple of years highlighted last year for a total of $472m spend - it looks like circa $200m towards the Littoral Warfare Vessel Capability which is right in the middle of the estimated DCP16 funding band.

 

[Rob c]

With a further $100m needed to finish off the Anzac upgrades over the next couple of years highlighted last year for a total of $472m spend - it looks like circa $200m towards the Littoral Warfare Vessel Capability which is right in the middle of the estimated DCP16 funding band.

This makes you wonder what the Janes report on a down grade was about if the money is being committed in this years budget, as any delays may have pushed the expenditure further out into the years ahead.

 

[40 deg south]

This makes you wonder what the Janes report on a down grade was about if the money is being committed in this years budget, as any delays may have pushed the expenditure further out into the years ahead.

Unless the bids back from the RFP process have shown that it will take towards the top end of the band (as per Mr C's post above) to get all the features RNZN is hoping for? Certainly this was the case with the replacement Endeavour capability, where the desired ro/ro vehicle deck and dry stores capability had to be dumped/reduced.

Alternatively, there could have been a cost blow-out with the frigate upgrade plan, and the navy is having to scale back the LOSC to plug the financial gap?

All speculation, of course. Is there any recent indication on when a preferred tenderer will be announced?

 

[ngatimozart]

NZ has been invited to RIMPAC 2018. All the nations that were at RIMPAC 2016 have been invited back for RIMPAC 2018. This is great for NZDF because it gets us continued exposure to and experience with large fleets, formations etc.

Chinese among invitees to major US exercise

 

[Gracie1234]

US Secretary of State visit

Next week with Rex Tillerson visiting i wonder if he will put the hard word on NZ to lift it's defense expenditure to 2% of GDP. It would be hard for the government to say we can not afford it since we are posting such large surpluses in the near future, 25-30 Billion over 5 years. We are the only Western Government with a surplus. If others can and they are in deficit it would make for a very interesting conversation. Do you guys think this conversation would get down to a capability level, only high level?