New sniper rifle model for British Army

[riksavage]

Wednesday, October 10, 2007
http://www.publicservant.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=4068

The British Army is replacing almost all of its 3,000 sniper rifles. The current rifle, the 7.62mm L96A1 will be replaced with the new “Super Magnum” L118A1firing a 8.6mm round. The success of Dutch snipers using the larger rifle and round in Afghanistan convinced British officials to make the switchover

The new L118A1 Model and the 8.6mm Lapua Magnum are manufactured by Barrett Rifles.

The current rifle, the 7.62mm L96A1 is made by Accuracy International and is a very accurate weapon, it’s also used by a number of other armed forces, including Australia. The British army also currently uses a Long Range variant designated L115A1, Calibre: 8.59mm, also made by Accuracy International.

Interesting to note they will now all be replaced by a version manufactured by Barret, replacing both 7.62 & 8.59 with the new 8.6mm round.

I was wondering how different the 8.59 is from a 8.6mm as far as range and hitting power? Does anyone else (with the exception of the Dutch) use this or plans to change to this calibre within their respective sniper teams?

 

[riksavage]

The Canadians have also opted for an 8.6mm rifle, link as follows:

http://www.pgwdti.com/

Again as results of exeriences in Afghanistan.

In the case of the Brit's, that's 3000 relatively new rifles up for grabs!

 

[riksavage]

My comment reference the differences between a 8.6 and 8.59 is invalid. The 8.59 was quoted on the MOD website, equipment section and must be in error. The below round is the new British type. Still why switch from the Accuracy International 'Super Magnum' to the Barret?

Wiki quote:

The .338 Lapua Magnum (8.6 x 70 mm or 8.58 x 70 mm) is a specialized rimless bottlenecked centerfire cartridge developed for military long-range sniper rifles. The Afghanistan War and Iraq War made it a combat-proven round with ready and substantial ammunition availability.

 

[buglerbilly]

The rifle is manufacturedby Barrett? Huh?

Is that correct.............???

From what I know, the original .338 Lapua Magnum gun was the L115A1.

The bulk of the Sniper Rifles were/are 7.62mm NATO L96A1's, the ones now being replaced by the L118A1's which are 8.6mm/.338 Lapua Magnum rifles based on the AW series...................Barrett have also recently produced a .338 BUT I'd be astounded IF they have been selected in front of AI..........

It has to be said I have been astounded before BUT............

 

[Chrom]

The rifle is manufacturedby Barrett? Huh?

Is that correct.............???

From what I know, the original .338 Lapua Magnum gun was the L115A1.

The bulk of the Sniper Rifles were/are 7.62mm NATO L96A1's, the ones now being replaced by the L118A1's which are 8.6mm/.338 Lapua Magnum rifles based on the AW series...................Barrett have also recently produced a .338 BUT I'd be astounded IF they have been selected in front of AI..........

It has to be said I have been astounded before BUT............

Good move for GB army... i'm sure most snipers will be pleased.

 

[riksavage]

After a bit of research I think the original press statement reference Barret was definately incorrect. The new super magnum rifles will be made by Accuracy International, limited numbers are already in service. The UK will just phase out the 7.62mm version and replace them with the more potent Super Magnum rifle. AI weapon is used by five NATO members already, so why change.

End of story.

 

[buglerbilly]

A bit more info............

The Barrett rifle is not made by them, its actually a SAKO TG-42.

The original .338 Lapua in the British Army was the L115A1 as noted above but also known as the Long Range Rifle.

The SAKO or the AI/AW would both be damn fine weapons to shoot and both are in service now with a variety of Euro-Scandanavian armies.

Regards,

BUG

 

[Tasman]

A bit more info............

The Barrett rifle is not made by them, its actually a SAKO TG-42.

The original .338 Lapua in the British Army was the L115A1 as noted above but also known as the Long Range Rifle.

The SAKO or the AI/AW would both be damn fine weapons to shoot and both are in service now with a variety of Euro-Scandanavian armies.

Regards,

BUG

Interesting that the Barrett rifle is made by Sako.

I owned three Sako rifles, a .222R, a .243W and a .270W. Of course these were basic hunting rifles but they were all superbly crafted and highly accurate weapons. Consequently I have a lot of confidence in Sako as a manufacturer. The .338 Lapua is a superb long range cartridge and the TRG-42 seems to be a fine weapon based on what I can read about it.

Tas

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Now why can't the U.S. have a sinper rifle that fires 8.6X70mm rounds instead of the 7.62X51mm. Yeh the .308 has worked for 50 years but the .338 is still a better round. They could at least convert back to the 30-06 which is 7.62X63mm.

 

[lobbie111]

well isn't that why the US has the big .50 if the 7.62 cant handle it blast it away with the .50

 

[barra]

Talking about sniper rifles, I recently viewed a clip of Canadian snipers at work in Afghanistan with .50 cal sniper rifles. Holy crap!! Those things certainly make a mess of the human body. Some of the shots were over 2000m, very impressive. At least the poor buggers never knew what hit them.

Hooroo

 

[Holger Danske]

Many british troops also tried out the danish TRG-42 in Musa Qaleh last year under the siege of the district center. One made a kill at almost 1000m first time shooting the rifle...

Ekstremly precise and hard-hitting....

 

[Holger Danske]

From snipercentral.com

The .338 is fairly new to the sniper community, but it does bear the distinction as being the first and only caliber designed specifically for sniping. While this round was actually developed back in 1983, it wasn't until the last few years that it has gained in popularity. The caliber was designed to arrive at 1000 meters with enough energy to penetrate 5 layers of military body armor and still make the kill. The effective range of this caliber is about 1 mile (1600meters) and in the right shooting conditions, it could come very close to the 2000 meter mark, provided you have the right rifle/ammo/optics/shooter/spotter combination. Realistically, 1200 meters is well within the average sniper. This caliber is designed primarily as a military extreme range anti-personnel round, there really is no Law Enforcement applications, unless you need a super penetrating round for either armored vehicles, or for barricaded suspects. There is not a lot of rifles chambered for the .338, but the list is growing with the likes of Sako, AI, and others producing .338 sniping rifles. Ammo is another problem, match ammo is sometimes difficult to find, but it is becomming more available as time passes. We all know the legal liability of using hand loads, so that is out of the question. Another concern is the recoil of this caliber, even with a good muzzle brake, its brisk. So don't try a rifle without one. Be sure to practice the fundamentals of shooting to try and prevent a flinch from developing.

Recommendations: For military extreme long-range anti-personnel purposes, the .338 Lapua is king. Even the .50BMG falls short (Do to accuracy problems with current ammo). This caliber is not recommended for Law Enforcement.

 

[barra]

Here is some info about the Canucks at work in Afghanistan.

A Canadian sniper in Afghanistan has been confirmed as hitting an enemy
soldier at a range of 2,310 meters, the longest recorded and confirmed sniper
shot in history. The previous record of 2,250 meters was set by US Marine
sniper Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam in 1967. The Canadian sniper was at an
altitude of 8,500 feet and the target, across a valley, was at 9,000 feet.

Canadian sniper units often operated in support of US infantry units,
which were grateful for their help. The record lasted only one day, until a
second Canadian sniper hit an enemy soldier at 2,400 meters (8000 feet).

The Canadian snipers fire special .50-calibre McMillan tactical rifles,
which are bolt-action weapons with five-round magazines. The Canadian snipers
were the only Canadian troops operating without helmets or flak jackets as
they had too much other equipment to carry. Each three-man team has one sniper
rifle, three standard rifles (Canadian C7s), one of them with a 203mm grenade
launcher.

I will try and post the video later.

Hooroo

 

[riksavage]

Using .338 over 50. cal has many advantages, not least in training. Most military 600metre ranges are not certified for use with 50. cal, but will accept .338 Super Magnum rounds without breaching safety regulations for the butt crew. So for penny-pinching European nations you get an excellent and capable weapon without having to upgrade your ranges.

 

[buglerbilly]

Using .338 over 50. cal has many advantages, not least in training. Most military 600metre ranges are not certified for use with 50. cal, but will accept .338 Super Magnum rounds without breaching safety regulations for the butt crew. So for penny-pinching European nations you get an excellent and capable weapon without having to upgrade your ranges.

Good God, I can't believe you said that..............

What in the Hell has .338 versus .50cal got to do with penny-pinching, European or not?

To introduce a .338 system is FAR more expensive that intro'ing a .50cal system, and ALL main European armies have access to ranges where either can be shot. In some cases, these ranges may be in an another country but that has nothing to do with cost.

Regards,

BUG

 

[riksavage]

Mate I assure you from personal experience how difficult it was firing 50. Cal sniper rifles on ranges in both Europe (UK) and Asia (HK). Yes agreed there are field-firing ranges capable of facilitating 50. cal weapons, but they are not as numerous as those rated for .308 & .338! If you are running a sniper course you want the ability to closely monitor fall of shot etc., and that is best done on ranges, which have targeting systems capable of feeding back information in near real-time. There are very, very few ranges I’ve been on that can do that for a 50. cal weapon. However I’m open to be proved wrong!

 

[buglerbilly]

Depends if you're on civvie ranges or military ranges...........civvies you'd have a problem as most of them would go apoplectic over the thought of a .50cal firing down range. Even a 308 gives most of them the "screaming abdabs"...........as in hysterical or near-hysterical reaction.

BUT military ranges should not be a problem in the UK; perhaps its all changed and they are now as useless as the civvie ones BUT I doubt it, especially considering the active and increasing use of Snipers in the Army, Paras, and the RM.

Regards,

BUG

 

[riksavage]

UK Snipers use AI, either .308 or .338.

50. Cal’s are the reserve of SF, and I doubt they have more than a handful.

The .338 delivers the right punch and has the necessary reach without incurring the weight of a 50. Cal system.

I doubt there a many military units, other than SF, who use 50. Cal these days. The benefit, when compared to .338, doesn’t offer a significant advantage, particularly when you have to lug the former around, unless that it is positioned in a purely defensive role (perimeter over-watch) or used as an anti-material rifle against aircraft in conjunction with RUFUS rounds.

 

[buglerbilly]

UK Snipers use AI, either .308 or .338.

50. Cal’s are the reserve of SF, and I doubt they have more than a handful.

The .338 delivers the right punch and has the necessary reach without incurring the weight of a 50. Cal system.

I doubt there a many military units, other than SF, who use 50. Cal these days. The benefit, when compared to .338, doesn’t offer a significant advantage, particularly when you have to lug the former around, unless that it is positioned in a purely defensive role (perimeter over-watch) or used as an anti-material rifle against aircraft in conjunction with RUFUS rounds.

Not quite, the RM also has Barrett .50cals..............the previous edition L115's .338 Lapua Magnum long rifles tended to be used by the top 10-15% of the snipers. This will obviously change with the intro of the L118.

It begs the question of what will happen to the L96's? I wonder, idly or otherwise, whether they may be de-selected to Designated Marksmen? It might make some sense to do so..............

In Australia the AI .50cal adopted a year or two ago is fundamentally an EOD system. We also have more than a few SR25's but I'd personally like to see us adopt the .338....................