New Chinese MBT???
- Thread starter norinco89
- Start date
Not sure about a tank gun, but I seem to remember Israel testing a high (hyper?) velocity 57mm (? 60mm) cannon on an M113 quite a few years back.When did the Israeli`s have a 60mm as a tank gun for the sherman, also China has some of the best producers of mainguns, (The Russians). We tried going with a bigger caliber many years ago ie: Sheridians and M60A2s, to have a effective armor defeating capability when ended up going with a missile system for this caliber, Russia is quite content with their 125mm and we are content with our 120mm. The 105mm is still a potent maingun but with the new armor packages that are out there on modern tanks, you are not going to be able to penetrate them from the front at a fair distance.
Maybe that's what the poster was thinking of.
rb
Please wake up?? I am not out to compare anything, I have a sincere interest on what type of devices have been placed on the turret and I am hoping that one of our fellow forum readers can share some additional photos so that I can conduct some research on them. Do you have anything that you want to add to the subject besides the comment made by you that doesn`t pertain to the question(s) asked.
To Izzy1
Is your reply really necessary? I did not say anything about this tank’s performance nor do I compare it to any other tanks. I just simply post a fresh released photo, so please calm down.
To eckherl:
So far this is the clearest and with the most detail showed photo about this model.
This is another photo people speculate is the same model. It does show the full length of the main gun, but it is not that clear.
Mod edit:
Ignore Izzy. His reply has been deleted and his ability to continue posting on these boards now is under discussion.
Please move on with the discussion.
AD
Is your reply really necessary? I did not say anything about this tank’s performance nor do I compare it to any other tanks. I just simply post a fresh released photo, so please calm down.
To eckherl:
So far this is the clearest and with the most detail showed photo about this model.
This is another photo people speculate is the same model. It does show the full length of the main gun, but it is not that clear.
Mod edit:
Ignore Izzy. His reply has been deleted and his ability to continue posting on these boards now is under discussion.
Please move on with the discussion.
AD
It was a 60mm gun that had penetration performance equal to a 105mm gun. And yes you are correct that it was tested on a M113 chassis, plus it was placed on a M-50 sherman chassis and sold to Chile. Israel never used either set up though in their armor units. Brazil also may have a few of the M-50s also.
Thank you Thery, this will help inregards to the gun.
People speculate the new device on top left of the turret is an Active Protective System (APS) like ARENA use by Russia tank. And the square device fixed on turret right behind the commander viewer believed to be just some temporary device use for the APS experiment.
To eckherl
Some people suggest the second picture of yours is actually an upgraded version of MBT2000 instead of Type-99.
To eckherl
Some people suggest the second picture of yours is actually an upgraded version of MBT2000 instead of Type-99.
Hmm, China certainly look for APS... but in this particular case - where is the "kill" device here? That top-left thing looks like some kind of sensor at most.
I do not think that it is a arena APS device, if you look, it seems to have a lense cover in place, they may of recessed the lense more inside the unit body to help assist in not damaging the device. But they have been testing different systems out from Russia.
It very well could be a MBT 2000, I have never seen one dressed up with the dazzler or laser sensing device though, and they have not been sold to Pakistan for the Al-Khalid. Is China looking at exporting the MBT 2000 again.
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The original hull of Type-99 is just an enlarger T-72 design and its performance is always been criticized by lots people. The picture you posted maybe just a test to see the performance of MBT-2000 hull + Type-99 Turret or it may be a possible upgrade package for Pakistan.
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I really do not understand why people feel that they need to criticize the hull, I have been trying like a mad man to get some of the specifications to the auto loader reason being, penetrator length and bigger caliber maingun growth potential, there is a reason why they went with a longer hull. What is it exactally that they do not like.
Isn`t the MBT 2000 hull shorter than a Type 99 hull, also Pakistan went with a different power pack with Ukrainian design and may also be using their ERA package, have you heard of any discontent with the Al - Khalid.
The larger size is exactly why people do not like about Type-99 hull.
The reason Chinese go for longer hull is only because they not yet able to develop a smaller engine or place the engine transversely, which MBT-2000 is able to do. This cause re-position the wheels out from their ideal formation of the T-72 original design, on top with larger size the overall maneuverability has been reduced.
Additionally, longer hull resulted with extra unnecessary weight. Not only this further reduces the maneuverability but it also reduced over all protection. There is some comment suggest although Type-99 hull is lot heavier than MBT-2000 hull, but its protection is about the same as the MBT-2000.
There is rumor claim that Chinese tested Type-99 turret on top of a MBT-2000 hull, and they are satisfied with the performance, which could be the picture you have been posted. Till now it is still not clear is Chinese will developed a new hull base on MBT-2000 design or fit a new engine (which they are develop for some time) transversely into the current Type-99 ones.
I am not sure is the longer hull really required for bigger caliber with longer penetrator, if they able to fit engine transversely or they able come up with a smaller engine, they could shorten the hull without lost any growth potential and/or protection, but at the same time increase over all maneuverability.
Anyway the hull is one of the areas about Type-99 Chinese try to improve on. There is news recently said a new hull already under years testing and its performance and reliability is lot better than the old ones. The news quotes one of the testing technician: “the new hull increase its cross-country speed by several kilometers compare to the old ones.”
And here is a picture speculates to be the new engine of Type-99.
The reason Chinese go for longer hull is only because they not yet able to develop a smaller engine or place the engine transversely, which MBT-2000 is able to do. This cause re-position the wheels out from their ideal formation of the T-72 original design, on top with larger size the overall maneuverability has been reduced.
Additionally, longer hull resulted with extra unnecessary weight. Not only this further reduces the maneuverability but it also reduced over all protection. There is some comment suggest although Type-99 hull is lot heavier than MBT-2000 hull, but its protection is about the same as the MBT-2000.
There is rumor claim that Chinese tested Type-99 turret on top of a MBT-2000 hull, and they are satisfied with the performance, which could be the picture you have been posted. Till now it is still not clear is Chinese will developed a new hull base on MBT-2000 design or fit a new engine (which they are develop for some time) transversely into the current Type-99 ones.
I am not sure is the longer hull really required for bigger caliber with longer penetrator, if they able to fit engine transversely or they able come up with a smaller engine, they could shorten the hull without lost any growth potential and/or protection, but at the same time increase over all maneuverability.
Anyway the hull is one of the areas about Type-99 Chinese try to improve on. There is news recently said a new hull already under years testing and its performance and reliability is lot better than the old ones. The news quotes one of the testing technician: “the new hull increase its cross-country speed by several kilometers compare to the old ones.”
And here is a picture speculates to be the new engine of Type-99.
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Has the length of the hull been officially criticized by the PLA, everyone seemed to want to sell them a power pack including the UK and France so I would think that they would be able to design something to fit their needs and I havent heard of any reliability issues with power pack or engine.
Base on how little information PLA willing to disclosure at the past, I don’t think we will ever hear any official criticizes about anything unless they got new equipment which is way better. At best what we going to hear form them is that a new hull is shortened results increase of performance. Just like the reliability issues, they never mention any reliability problems with the old hull instead they only state that the new hull is more reliable.
It is true that lots countries willing to sell power pact to China, but since there is no immediate pressure for PLA to acquire huge number of tanks. I believe PLA may take some time to allow the local industry come up with some thing that fits their needs. They may purchase some engine for the first couple batches to further evaluate the system, but I doubt that they will import anything in huge numbers.
Here is an interesting picture come with the report.
An IFV is testing under desert environment.
Are they not testing with a larger gun caliber, even Russia went with a reconfigured hull and suspension when testing proto type turrets with vehicles in the likes of Black Eagle.
They do have 140mm gun under development but I don’t think they are serious about introducing it. Current tank armor defiance is not yet justified the trouble, drawback and cost needed to introduce such kind gun.
Some “so called insider source” claims that PLA are going for longer barrel with new ammo (both 120mm and 125mm), and they are also developing bustle autoloader.
Well if they go with a different length for the 125mm all I think that they will be able to go with is a 52 caliber length, maybe 53 caliber length. Interesting that they may go with a 120mm, must be in part due to one piece ammunition and matched with a bustle loader, it looks like that the Ukrainians may have offered them a little assistance with this. They have actually tested with a 140 mm quite extensively.
Why do you think that China would go with a 120mm.
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