new Chinese fighter jet by Chengdu

[PLA2025]

I got this pic from CMF and the news article including photo was from the PLA daily. To me it looks like the J-10C plane with stealthy elements on the airframe (look at the nose and the weapons bay). But it might be the J-12 or J-13 (don't know what the PLAAF or PLAN would designate that plane) and I guess it has still to make its maiden flight. There have been discussions whether that pic is PSed or not, but most people were saying it is the real deal. When looking back, Chengdu has been developing the J-10C for at least 3 years (which uses the J-10A as the basic airframe design). The pic shows the DSI-intake system while using tailfins like the YF-23 of Northrop/McDonnell Douglas which lost the duel to the YF-22 in the early 1990's

 

[wp2000]

I got this pic from CMF and the news article including photo was from the PLA daily. To me it looks like the J-10C plane with stealthy elements on the airframe (look at the nose and the weapons bay). But it might be the J-12 or J-13 (don't know what the PLAAF or PLAN would designate that plane) and I guess it has still to make its maiden flight. There have been discussions whether that pic is PSed or not, but most people were saying it is the real deal. When looking back, Chengdu has been developing the J-10C for at least 3 years (which uses the J-10A as the basic airframe design). The pic shows the DSI-intake system while using tailfins like the YF-23 of Northrop/McDonnell Douglas which lost the duel to the YF-22 in the early 1990's

That's a CG. I have to say it's a very good one. But somebody pasted it onto the PLA newspaper. That's disgusting.

 

[wp2000]

Have a look at the original one.

 

[Elite-Pilot]

If the picture was a little more brighter, i would be able to comment more on this issue. However it isnt so i will try to see what category it fits under.

1)I would not call his plane "new" but rather a further development of a current PLAAF fighter

2)the weapon slot under neath (similar to the ones on F/A-22) definately seem stealthy

3)The canards improve maneuverability of the air craft

4)the design seems EXTREMELY stealthy

5)the air intake system under the cockpit looks as if it might reduce the noise of the aircraft

6)the nose is that of also similar to the F/A-22, making it possible to fit a reasonably good radar and top avionics

The chinese indeed kept this a good secret, i wonder if other countries had this in their "classified" folder

 

[tphuang]

it's 100% CG. Pretty much mentionned in every Chinese forums as so. Just one more thing, it appears J-10C is not going to be the twin-engined version, but rather one using WS-10A and a phased array radar.

 

[aaaditya]

I got this pic from CMF and the news article including photo was from the PLA daily. To me it looks like the J-10C plane with stealthy elements on the airframe (look at the nose and the weapons bay). But it might be the J-12 or J-13 (don't know what the PLAAF or PLAN would designate that plane) and I guess it has still to make its maiden flight. There have been discussions whether that pic is PSed or not, but most people were saying it is the real deal. When looking back, Chengdu has been developing the J-10C for at least 3 years (which uses the J-10A as the basic airframe design). The pic shows the DSI-intake system while using tailfins like the YF-23 of Northrop/McDonnell Douglas which lost the duel to the YF-22 in the early 1990's

it definitely does not look like the j12xxj image which was published in the flight magazine(the aircraft looked like a cross between f15 and f22).
also if china plans to produce a stealth design then they will not look at a canard based design, because a canard considerably increases the radar cross section,and also the weapons bay(internal)seems to be quite inadequate ,at best i think it can carry 1 missile in the bay which is visible in the picture.
the air intake seems unique and definitely has a lot of promise.by the way isnt that design a delta winged one?

 

[aaaditya]

by the way can someone translate that chinese article ,iam sure it will give us some information on the project?

 

[wp2000]

by the way can someone translate that chinese article ,iam sure it will give us some information on the project?

It's a computer generated graphics pasted onto an irrelevant newspaper. So no point to translate the chinese text.

As of cannard, at least in the early 90's chinese designs, several of them did have cannards, although they were discarded. But at least in the official news relase in a ZhuHai Airshow, one design being revealed by Kanwa has cannards and if you compare that one with this CG, you can see where this CG is based upon.

But I do want to remind you though, China never officially reveal any on going mil equipments or projects. When they do reveal something, it's either 10-20 years old or you really need to be careful of.

BTW, J10's cannards are nearly 100% composite. (No, I should say it this way: the designer of the J10's cannards manufacturing process won an national award because it's "All radar wave penetration", Gee, I don't understand my translation)

 

[Brit]

Good hoax, pitty they didn't redo the text to match the pic.

Do you think hoaxes like this serve a useful purpose and what how would you treat the hoaxers if they came forward?

 

[wp2000]

Good hoax, pitty they didn't redo the text to match the pic.

Do you think hoaxes like this serve a useful purpose and what how would you treat the hoaxers if they came forward?

I am not too sure whether it's the "artist" himself posted the CG onto the newspaper to make the hoax because that's not usual. But this guy is one of the few top CG guys in chinese military forums, actually some good CGs we've seen before are his works.

I don't think he personally had any secret purpose in doing this. Somebody already appologised for this hoax. I like his CG works, but I don't like the hoax, just like a child play.

But, I would not completely ignore this CG. He didn't draw it purely based on his imagination. Apart from that official picture published by Kanwa, he also talked to other guys. I'll keep his drawinng, then years later we'll see whether he was misled or not, or misled to what extent.

 

[Brit]

Time to confess to my past hoax pics I guess. I feel a bit dirty about them really. This isn't one of mine though. I did them to watch over zealous conspiracy theorists on other military forums get over excited about the content. This forum sorta cured me as it's more informed for the most part.

 

[Hussain]

I think the nose section looks a bit like the SU27 and the underbelly, as far I can see, looks like the F10A. I think at present the Western world is in denial of the full capabilities of the Chinese nation and its people. As one previous Pakistani minister stated to the US that the Chinese are a great nation and an emerging world superpower and that not acknowledging that would be the US's loss.

In any case even if the canards at the front were not stealthy and the Chinese are working on the guidelines of future Russian stealth planes then that should not be a problem. I believe that the Russians have been working on using chemicals ejected from the plane to hide it from radars So that could be a possibility. It was also claimed in the Jang newspaper once that the Chinese have new type of air to air missile that is not in the arsenal of any other country of the world. That is to say that the missile follows sound waves rather than heat, electronics or infrared signatures.

If the picture is of indeed a real plane then I wonder what type of engine it uses. I think the picture, if real, demonstrates that the Chinese have gone far beyond the F10 mark, which can match the F15 and Su27's, and are now able to produce planes that can compete with Western planes that haven't even been fully inducted.

 

[Brit]

I think the nose section looks a bit like the SU27 and the underbelly, as far I can see, looks like the F10A. I think at present the Western world is in denial of the full capabilities of the Chinese nation and its people. As one previous Pakistani minister stated to the US that the Chinese are a great nation and an emerging world superpower and that not acknowledging that would be the US's loss.

In any case even if the canards at the front were not stealthy and the Chinese are working on the guidelines of future Russian stealth planes then that should not be a problem. I believe that the Russians have been working on using chemicals ejected from the plane to hide it from radars So that could be a possibility. It was also claimed in the Jang newspaper once that the Chinese have new type of air to air missile that is not in the arsenal of any other country of the world. That is to say that the missile follows sound waves rather than heat, electronics or infrared signatures.

If the picture is of indeed a real plane then I wonder what type of engine it uses. I think the picture, if real, demonstrates that the Chinese have gone far beyond the F10 mark, which can match the F15 and Su27's, and are now able to produce planes that can compete with Western planes that haven't even been fully inducted.

I guess this is the type of conspiracy theory post I was referring to in my above post.

 

[Brit]

Also, sound waves???? These are by definition transonic and disipate far quicker than light or radio waves. So unless they plan on using them on very slow moving targets at very short ranges from a down-tail wind position.....

 

[PLA2025]

about the mysterious new Chengdu fighter

It really seems that the pic posted in several forums is most likely a pretty well done CGI. But then we must ask what Chengdu is really developing now? We know that they will come out with a J-10C soon (maybe 2007) and working on a stealth fighter project besides the J-XX by Shenyang which resembles lot of the F-15 and F/A-22. That pic might be a CGI based on a real Chengdu concept but changed by the artist intentionally. I don't see a J-10C with only one single engine (especially not with a WS-10A which has no vector thrust capability) but a slightly larger J-10 version with DSI-air intake systems. The question is...is that pic a purely fan fic or based on the J-10C or J-13 concept by Chengdu? Maybe we will know more when Chengdu reveals its J-10C with pics of their prototypes or later the J-13 if it can appear even before the J-XX. Experts say that the J-XX might finish development in 2009 and make its maiden flight then if everything stays in schedule.

 

[tphuang]

Re: about the mysterious new Chengdu fighter

J-10C is likely the one that uses TVC WS-10A and Phased Array radar and possible DSI intake. CAC is definitely working on competing models of next generation fighter. One of which is the much talked about twin-engined naval version. As far as when they may come out? It's hard to say, J-10C won't take long to come out, since it's just resting on the status of the Chinese aivonics industry. The twin-engined or single-engined stealth version based on J-10 should probably finish in a few years. Either way, it's competing against the plane from SAC, so CAC will make sure that it's good quality rather than rushing it. Until then, J-10 has the Chinese market dominated. It's basically an idea of pla will buy as many j-10s that CAC can produce.

 

[webmaster]

Got this picture from Pathfinder-X:

It still doesn't look like a real thing. I think, the ccTV is just showing the same picture found in the first post of this thread but in color. Here are few things to see:

-Check out the sun light. Or maybe cctv just happened to take the live shot of the fighter at the same time the previous (black and white image) was taken? Very unlikely.

-Check out the light writing marks on the black and white picture. They are very light but on the clear picture, it is very clear. Maybe whoever made this CGI/Graphics decided they will blur the picture so bad so it looks like a "fighter" but no body can tell anything else about it.

-Just go through both of the pictures and you will start noticing similarties between the pictures. CCTv picture is little smaller so it covers less area detail but black and white picture is bigger but only provide same detail from same angel.

Any other pointers? Let us know.


Enjoy!

 

[Brit]

It's the same picture, but in the original hoax it was in black and white.

It's very convincing, but I still think it's a hoax. I could replicate it from scratch.

The airframe is clearly a stealthy LOOKING(!) variation on the Mig MFI configoration.

The open hatches are a nice touch, they make it look more realistic. Mock-ups don't have real insides etc. I added touches of "normality" to my hoax pictures.

The picture proves NOTHING unless its authenticity can be verified.

 

[kashifshahzad]

I want to ask how much composite materials are cost effective i know they are hard and light weight they also also improve the stealthiness of an AC but if an AC is twice the cost of normal plane then i dont think this is suitable for developing countries to buy these kind of planes

 

[PLA2025]

As far as I know the J-10A costs less than 30 mio. USD (slightly cheaper than the F-16C/D). The J-10C with twin engine and stealthy improvements might cost 50-60 mio. USD close to the F/A-18E/F and G Super Hornet's costs. A development country cannot afford it? Usually not but China is an exeception. Let me remind you that China ranks 2nd in world trade right after the US and surpassed Japan earlier this year! Although Chinese military spending still has enough room to purchase such planes of the cost of over 50 mio. USD per unit. We must also consider that the same plane made by Western manufacturers would make it more expensive. If Chengdu succeeds to release a new stealthy fighter jet like the pic from the internet, the PLAAF might purchase 100 or more of them while waiting for the J-XX which supposes to be China's full 5th gen fighter jet. For me it is not clear whether Chengdu or Shenyang would come out with their own stealth fighter first. Officially the stealth fighter project was handed to Shenyang.