New Artillery for India.

[dreamwarrior73]

are guys sure that India bought Denel artillery piece instead of Bofors???

i'm pretty sure as hell that Indian Army are pleased with the Bofors howitzers performance in Kargil War.

 

[dreamwarrior73]

its really hard to say which gun is the better gun. both guns definitely their own advantages.

Bofors advantages:
1. advanced ammunition. Bonus, Excalibur.
2. the most accurate.

Denel advantages:
1. range. longest range with the new ammunition.

you guys can continue the list...

 

[aaaditya]

its really hard to say which gun is the better gun. both guns definitely their own advantages.

Bofors advantages:
1. advanced ammunition. Bonus, Excalibur.
2. the most accurate.

Denel advantages:
1. range. longest range with the new ammunition.

you guys can continue the list...

bofors new excalibur series of amuunition has a range of 65kms which is now equal to that of denel ,the bofors guns is more accurate,denel is out of contention right now due to thre bribery scandal and the poor performance of its anti material rifles,as of now bofors is considered as the favourite,bofors gun's latest variant the bofors fh77b05l52 has noew been offered to india,during the the last summer tests the bofors guns was found to be superior to the south african and the israeli gun but still did not meet some of indian army's stringent specifications hence they have gone back to the drawing board to improve their gun. :coffee

 

[Defcon 6]

The U.S NLOS Artillery is going to have better performance. It's R&D is with BAE Land and Armaments. I have a thread on it in the Land Forces forum. And Exalibur? It's not finished being developed yet, and how would you know if it will be available for export?

 

[aaaditya]

The U.S NLOS Artillery is going to have better performance. It's R&D is with BAE Land and Armaments. I have a thread on it in the Land Forces forum. And Exalibur? It's not finished being developed yet, and how would you know if it will be available for export?

yes the archer has been offered with the excalibur and the bonus.both the excalibur and the bonus have already been tested.:coffee

 

[aaaditya]

well seems india will get a new artillery system to compete with the smerch(must be the aganivarsha weve been hearing for a long time)



[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ARDE adding lethal touch to Pinaka rockets[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Multi-barrel rocket launches to be upgraded to 120-km range, 250-kg payload.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pune, September 14:[/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A sleek 7.2 meter long rocket flying over 120 km with a warhead containing 250 kg of explosives can cause a lot of damage deep into enemy territory. Followed by 11 others in a span of just 44 seconds, it converts a 3.9 sq km enemy area into shredded cottage cheese.

While the Army already has the indigenous Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket Launchers (MBRLs) which can fire a salvo of 12 unguided rockets with a 100 kg payload to a maximum distance of 40 km, the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) has now started work on enhancing its range to 120 km and increasing the payload to 250 kg.

http://ads.expressindia.com/banner/grfx/advertisement.gifThe design plan for the upgraded Pinaka rocket has already been prepared and a team of senior DRDO scientists have started work, says A S Rajagopal, Director, ARDE. The upgraded rockets, which may be ready only by 2012, will compete with the Russian SMERCH, Chinese WS-1 B and Israeli EXTRA multi barrel rocket systems.

The new rocket will have a maximum speed of 4.7 mach and will rise to an altitude of 40 km before hitting its target at a devastating 1.8 mach. To enhance its range, a unique dual thrust system will be used in which the initial thrust at time of launch will be reduced substantially during flight time.

There is also a move to put a guidance system on the rockets. ‘‘We are moving to a time where most rockets will get guided some way or the other. But the only constraint is the prohibitive cost of the control mechanism,’’ said KVSS Prasad Rao, Chief Controller (R&D), DRDO headquarters. But cost is something on ARDE’s mind too. The indigenous Pinnaka MRBLs will cost Rs 10 lakh per rocket against the imports which range from Rs 70-80 lakh per rocket. However, with such long-range striking capability, the armed forces will also need support systems like UAV’s and communication equipment which can provide real-time target information. The DRDO also has plans to integrate these systems with the enhanced Pinaka MBRLs.

[/font]


well here is the link:
http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=148677 :coffee

 

[pavansan]

[ Edit: Does this look like a thread about Australia/Aussie Army to you? Read the subject: New Artillery for India. Stay on the topic and don't ask irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the topic/subject! If you need to ask question about Australiani military open a new thread or look for existing threads on the forums. ]

 

[Defcon 6]

yes the archer has been offered with the excalibur and the bonus.both the excalibur and the bonus have already been tested.:coffee

It's been tested but that doesn't mean anything. It isn't finished yet. And still, I doubt the U.S Army will sell them.

 

[aaaditya]

It's been tested but that doesn't mean anything. It isn't finished yet. And still, I doubt the U.S Army will sell them.

and why will they not?when they can offer to sell f16's and f18's why not the excalibur or the bonus?they are afterall conventional weapons,any way it does not matter india has already acqquired south african assegai range of ammunition(the factory to be set up in nalanda) and the russian krasnopol series of laser guided ammunition(already tested in kargil).:coffee

 

[Defcon 6]

and why will they not?when they can offer to sell f16's and f18's why not the excalibur or the bonus?they are afterall conventional weapons,any way it does not matter india has already acqquired south african assegai range of ammunition(the factory to be set up in nalanda) and the russian krasnopol series of laser guided ammunition(already tested in kargil).:coffee

All of those are inferior to the Exalibur munition. the F-22 is a conventional weapon but those aren't going to be for export. :coffee

 

[aaaditya]

All of those are inferior to the Exalibur munition. the F-22 is a conventional weapon but those aren't going to be for export. :coffee

well lets see as of now they have all been offered.and i dont think usa will reject a sale of artillery ammunition like excalibur and bonus ,afterall they are offering f16,f18 and pac3 which are all high end technology and can also be used in a nuclear strike.
the indian order for the artillery gun is one of the largest (nearly 6000 guns ,including both field and sph)the value is expected to be as high as 4 billion dollars ,which ever gun is selected will replace every other artillery gu in the indian arsenal.so if usa has a share in the bofors gun,they will find this deal too tempting to refuse the sale of ammunitions.:coffee

 

[aaaditya]

well here is another news article related to artillery:

Army to induct Sound Ranging System to locate explosions

NEW DELHI, SEPT 18 (PTI)


Close on the heels of acquiring fire-finding radars, the Army is in the process of inducting a state-of-art Sound Ranging System (SRS) to locate explosions and hostile firings.

The system, currently deployed by the US, British and allied forces in "hotspots" like Iraq and Afghanistan, is a new measure to provide protection to forces engaged in urban warfare as well to give them speedy target information.

The Army, according to highly placed sources, has already held three rounds of validation trials for the system in which British Aerospace subsidiary, Selex Sensors and Airborne Systems, the French-German Thales and companies from South Africa and Israel have participated.

Selex and Thales have been shortlisted after three rounds of trials held in artillery ranges in the Thar desert. The sources said the system was being inducted to have automated, accurate detection of artillery, mortar as well as rocket-fire faster than ever before.

The system uses sophisticated acoustic detection technology to identify enemy artillery fire as well as to locate sources of explosions and hostile firing, they said.

"Acquisition of fire-finding radars and new Sound Ranging system is part of the artillery upgradation programme", the sources said.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=25&id=323536

well wonder how much advantage they will give the indian artillery. :coffee

 

[aaaditya]

here is some info about the selex sound ranging system mentioned in the previous post:

http://www.selex-sas.com/selex-uk/news/PR-HALOinINDIA.pdf

can someone explain how such a system operates

 

[goran]

this is what i talking all time

 

[aaaditya]

this is what i talking all time

hey buddy what artillery system is that,can you provide details as to what caliber it is ?(is it the archer?).

 

[goran]

this is 155mm self propeled gun on 8x8 truck .what India wants Serbia have.Send me a e-mail ,and i send you many Serbian weapons (artillery,tanks,sniper...and many more).

 

[aaaditya]

this is 155mm self propeled gun on 8x8 truck .what India wants Serbia have.Send me a e-mail ,and i send you many Serbian weapons (artillery,tanks,sniper...and many more).

what is its name?and how good is it when compared to the bofors gun?can you post its specifications?

 

[JOE]

its really hard to say which gun is the better gun. both guns definitely their own advantages.

Bofors advantages:
1. advanced ammunition. Bonus, Excalibur.
2. the most accurate.

Denel advantages:
1. range. longest range with the new ammunition.

you guys can continue the list...

Danel artilary towed variety was accepted during NDA govt. But the new Govt has cancelled it. Now a investigation is going on regarding the kick back involved in that deal.. so Danel towede artilary is Off.

at present the army is testing the bofors and isreali gun( I think it is manufacturered by soltem.). but Bofors is most preffered as it is comming good during testing in rajasthan and higher reaches of kashmir. But still lot of odification is needed as this is completely new gun. Bofors is given time to make those modifications. Contract will not be signed before next year.

some of the dalel gun is matched with arjun battle tank chesis and DRDO created Towed version. they call it Bhim. but as you know there is problem with matching the system. so I belive another year or two before we see any tracked version of this artilary peice.

smersh rocket system. already order plaed for them and most probably the first system delivered. but this rocket systems wshould not be clubed with artilary. as basically they are completely seperate systems.

so in five years to 10 years time India will have two artilary systems. One is the field gun manufactured by the OFB and the new 155 MM gun

 

[goran]

155mm Self-propelled gun
Converted gun family in 155/152 mm with barrel length of 39, 45 or 52 calibres.
The ordnance is mounted on highly mobile 8 x 8 wheeled cross-country chassis.
NORA-B 155/52 mm self-propelled gun represents modern and highly effective fire support combat system mounted on 8x8 wheeled chassis, featuring extremely high cost-effectiveness ratio, due to design concept.
The main technicval data
Weight in marching/combat position: slightly less than 30 t
Combat load: 36 rounds
On-road maximum speed: 80 km/h
Off-road maximum speed: 15-25 km/h
Autonomy: 500 km
Barrel: 155 mm (52 caliber length)
Maximum rate of fire: 6 rds/min
Powder chamber volume: 22.5 litres
Number of grooves: 48
Maximum pressure of powder gasses: 3000 bars
Crew: 5+1
Field of action: Elevation: -30 to +560
Traverse: 400 left and 400 right
Azimuth and elevation movement: electrohydraulic
Loader: semiautomatic with hydraulic rammer
Maximum rate of barrel movement in:
Traverse: 10 0/s
Elevation: 2 0Dimensions (LxWxH) mm on the march:
10300x3080x3385
Dimensions (LxWxH) mm on the combat position:
14000x5450x3600
Engine: 235 kW10300x3080x3385
Dimensions (LxWxH) mm on the combat position:
14000x5450x3600
Engine: 235 kW
- flexible battery-level FCS,
with optional individual
strike capability
- high battlefield survivability
(rapid in and out-of-action procedure)
- 82 mm smoke dischargers with effective grenades able to form powerful smoke screen for extremely short period of time
- camouflage net providing protection in several radiation bands (visible, near infrared, thermal and radar)
Featuring:
- favorable rate of fire (up to 6 rounds / minute) with 3 rounds in 20 seconds
- highly autonomous, with combat load of 36 rounds mounted behind crew cabin
- long ranges, up to 41 km (using ERFB-BB rounds)
- use of combustible cartridge case due to 52 caliber length barrel with self-sealing
system
- high terminal efficiency due to projectile design and advanced fuse family
- both standard and advanced 155 mm rounds (cargo, illumination, smoke)
- auxiliary armament (heavy machine gun or automatic grenade launcher)
- high tactical mobility with high off-road performances due to all wheel drive chassis and central hydraulic tyre pressure regulation system
- favorable operational mobility, with maximum speed (on-road) up to 80 km/h due to high engine output (235 kW)
- high strategic mobility by air (C-130 transportable), land (railroad or truck-tractor) or sea

 

[aaaditya]

Danel artilary towed variety was accepted during NDA govt. But the new Govt has cancelled it. Now a investigation is going on regarding the kick back involved in that deal.. so Danel towede artilary is Off.

at present the army is testing the bofors and isreali gun( I think it is manufacturered by soltem.). but Bofors is most preffered as it is comming good during testing in rajasthan and higher reaches of kashmir. But still lot of odification is needed as this is completely new gun. Bofors is given time to make those modifications. Contract will not be signed before next year.

some of the dalel gun is matched with arjun battle tank chesis and DRDO created Towed version. they call it Bhim. but as you know there is problem with matching the system. so I belive another year or two before we see any tracked version of this artilary peice.

smersh rocket system. already order plaed for them and most probably the first system delivered. but this rocket systems wshould not be clubed with artilary. as basically they are completely seperate systems.

so in five years to 10 years time India will have two artilary systems. One is the field gun manufactured by the OFB and the new 155 MM gun

i doubt denel will be chosen ,the reason is
1)scandal involving th anti material rifles sold to indian army(the deal involved middlemen)
2)during the summer trials denel failed the accuracy tests carried out at mahajan ranges.(israeli soltam also failed ,only bofors gun came close to the set parameters)
3)bofors being a proven system already in service with the indian army,it was the weapon of choice during the kargil war and the army is very happy with its performance.
4)the new bofors archer gun offered to india is not only superior to the denel or the israeli gun,but also cheaper,the biggest advantage is that the existing 410 indian bofors guns can be easily and cheaply upgraded to the archer standards.
indian army is also reportedly unhappy with the cost that denel is quoting for the t6 turrts to be mated to the arjun tanks,and most probably i believe that either the bhim project will be killed or it may have a turret jointly developed with bofors,but that is not the priority right now.