Modernization and Acquisition of Combatant Vessels for Pakistani Navy.
- Thread starter Ethan
- Start date
yeah apparently the Type 45 will have two (or was it three (i think the three is for teh Aircraft carrier)) Phalanx 1b rather then the GoalKeeper but i was speaking to my Royal Navy Recruitment officer abut the this who use to e a rate and weapons engineer he seamed to prefer the Goalkeeper, i guess Phalanx increases our similarities with the USN and Phalanx may just be alot more cost effective.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #43
Is Pakistan deploying nuclear weapons via is surface or submarine forces. I remember reading somewhere that Pakistan had plans to deploy some kind of LACM armed with nuclear warheads. Does anyone know anything about this. There does not seems to be any information in the news regarding this subject.
There has been talk about it, but the Agosta 90's are the only ones with a suitable FCS to marry a system up. I'm not aware of any existing system that could be used in the Agostas. It would probably mean an adapted Chinese system, and I can't see DCN being prepared to release core technology details to China. Pakistan might own them, and build them, but the core IP is still French and was not part of the sale process.Ethan said:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #45
I thought Pakistan had been given full transfer of technology and the licence to build and sell the Agosta 90b subs to any country. Either way, is it not possible to build and upgraded version of the Agosta 90b subs with the Chinese help to launch LACMS. I am sure the Chinese would be interested in inspecting the technologies imported with the Agosta 90b subs.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #46
Acording http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/han_xia_kilo_song.htm website the Chinese Song class have some influence of Agosta 90b subs. I would assume that some technology or design features may have found their way from Pakistan to China.
The Song and the Yuan class subs are suppose to be able to launch the C-801/802/803 series anti-ship missiles. These missiles are in service with the Pakistani navy. There is reportedly a LACM variant of the C-802 missile with a range of 400 KM.
If Pakistan is able to modify the existing Agosta 90b subs or perhaps a modiefied design of the subs to carry this variant of the LACM, assuming ofcourse that the fire control system is modified succesfully to launch these missiles, then such a capability could be acquired successfully.
I cant help but wonder if PN is flirting with the idea or perhaps is already working on it.
The Song and the Yuan class subs are suppose to be able to launch the C-801/802/803 series anti-ship missiles. These missiles are in service with the Pakistani navy. There is reportedly a LACM variant of the C-802 missile with a range of 400 KM.
If Pakistan is able to modify the existing Agosta 90b subs or perhaps a modiefied design of the subs to carry this variant of the LACM, assuming ofcourse that the fire control system is modified succesfully to launch these missiles, then such a capability could be acquired successfully.
I cant help but wonder if PN is flirting with the idea or perhaps is already working on it.
The Chinese are very good adapters and modifiers of technology, and I would be very very surprised if they haven't made appropriate mods.
The Songs are using French sonar and comms gear.
AFAIK, acoustically, they aren't as good as the Agostas, and I know that the technology used for acoustic damping the Agostas is platform specific. ie, it can't be copied as such.
The Songs are using French sonar and comms gear.
AFAIK, acoustically, they aren't as good as the Agostas, and I know that the technology used for acoustic damping the Agostas is platform specific. ie, it can't be copied as such.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #48
GF: I wasn't aware of that. I guess the Chinese are catching up rapidly.
Do you know which verision of the Harpoon, Exocet, and C-802 missiles are in service with the Pakistani navy? How may of each are in serive? and how likely are they to pass through the SAMS deployed by the Indian navy like the SA-N-7 / 12, Barak and Akash.
Do you know which verision of the Harpoon, Exocet, and C-802 missiles are in service with the Pakistani navy? How may of each are in serive? and how likely are they to pass through the SAMS deployed by the Indian navy like the SA-N-7 / 12, Barak and Akash.
I don't have that info handy, one of the locals might know, adsH etc...Ethan said:
Countries rarely disclose the numbers of missiles they have, and when they do, it's usually deliberately wrong.
the issue of how effective Indian SAMs, ASHm's are is also difficult. Countries don't publicly indicate what their capability is. Except in examples where the USN bought 500 russian missiles of various types from Moldova, then it becomes apparent that they know how to counter those missiles, or are able to determine how the guidance or seeker systems work.
In GW2 specforces came across modified Sa-6's in the back of a truck. All of these had been modified with IR seekers from air to air missiles. The US was unaware of these mods until then. Once they found them, they had a counter to it.
The hardest thing is to come up with an assessment in the public domain. A lot of the info you see on the web is of minimal strategic importance, so it's not always safe to assume that its correct, relevant or of current strat importance.
eg JDW has had info that is wrong and was deliberately misrepresented by various entities. In the Cold War, everyone did it - submitted incorrect articles as they knew that most Navys had a copy of Janes or Bakers sitting in a wardroom somewhere.
Thats why quoting specific numbers relating to performance is a dangerous exercise.
http://www.paknews.com/flash.php?id=19&date1=2004-12-12
Pak Navy Gets Hovercraft, Assault Boat
:cop :cop
Mod: The participation rules state that you must include a link, and you must post your comments,
http://defencetalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=126
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan : Dec 12 (SADA) - Pakistan Navy Saturday achieved yet another milestone in defence capabilities by inducting hovercraft and military assault boat into its marine force.
The induction ceremony was held at the P.N.S. Himalaya on Manora Island in which chief of naval staff admiral Shahid Karimullah was the chief guest. On the occasion, Admiral Karimullah said Pakistan marines since their inception have striven hard to earn a mark of success and undoubtedly this force has all the potential to grow.
He said the induction of these state-of-the-art craft marks a quantum leap in Pakistan marines' equipment inventory. Highlighting the salient features of the newly-inducted platforms, commander Karachi rear admiral Asad Qureshi said the hovercraft is specially designed for undertaking operations over water, land, flats, sand bars and shallow waters with equal ease.
The military assault boat is designed for patrolling of creek areas through intricate and treacherous routes. Another quality of the hovercraft and military assault boat is that they can be mobilized on a short notice in case of a threat or emergency.
The Pakistan Navy has procured parts of the hovercraft from Britain and the military assault boat from Malaysia to augment its defence capability. The hovercraft was assembled at the Pakistan navy dockyard, Karachi. The induction of these boats will help check smuggling and illegal crossing of borders in the creek areas. Later, the chief guest formally inducted the hovercraft and the military assault boat. The ceremony was attended by a large number of senior naval officers and dignitaries.
The End.
Pak Navy Gets Hovercraft, Assault Boat
:cop :cop
Mod: The participation rules state that you must include a link, and you must post your comments,
http://defencetalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=126
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan : Dec 12 (SADA) - Pakistan Navy Saturday achieved yet another milestone in defence capabilities by inducting hovercraft and military assault boat into its marine force.
The induction ceremony was held at the P.N.S. Himalaya on Manora Island in which chief of naval staff admiral Shahid Karimullah was the chief guest. On the occasion, Admiral Karimullah said Pakistan marines since their inception have striven hard to earn a mark of success and undoubtedly this force has all the potential to grow.
He said the induction of these state-of-the-art craft marks a quantum leap in Pakistan marines' equipment inventory. Highlighting the salient features of the newly-inducted platforms, commander Karachi rear admiral Asad Qureshi said the hovercraft is specially designed for undertaking operations over water, land, flats, sand bars and shallow waters with equal ease.
The military assault boat is designed for patrolling of creek areas through intricate and treacherous routes. Another quality of the hovercraft and military assault boat is that they can be mobilized on a short notice in case of a threat or emergency.
The Pakistan Navy has procured parts of the hovercraft from Britain and the military assault boat from Malaysia to augment its defence capability. The hovercraft was assembled at the Pakistan navy dockyard, Karachi. The induction of these boats will help check smuggling and illegal crossing of borders in the creek areas. Later, the chief guest formally inducted the hovercraft and the military assault boat. The ceremony was attended by a large number of senior naval officers and dignitaries.
The End.
mysterious
New Member
So now how many of these vessels does PN have in service in total? I think the hovercraft was the first one for sure. :smokingc:
Ever seen a US LCAC? or one of the Russian LCAC's?? I would not want to be on one of those things if a proximity weapon went off.P.A.F said:not sure but imagine PN making a huge hovercrafts with SAMS, and real good weapons on it. they can move real fast so there will be no catching it
LCAC's are only viable when supported and the theatre has been dominated by the landing force. Otherwise it's a shrapnel delight.
Look at the size of an LCAC - they are enormous, there's also not a lot of room for a defensive weapons suite. They're big fancy barges - and as such you don't want to even try an engage in high speed manouvre with a load of armour or cavalry platforms on board.
It's possible to make anything if it fits your tactical doctrine. The issue is what advantages a SAM loaded LCAC is going to provide?P.A.F said:
but wouldn't it be good if the PN made some special type fitted with long range SAMS to deter indian naval aircraft? Do you think that is possible?
An LCAC by nature can only be deployed safely in it's proper role if theatre and air dominance is assured - that means that it's the responsibility of other assets to provide force and theatre projection/protection.
One you start turning platforms into hybrids, you start to compromise their utility and speciality. Better to let the LCAC disgorge assets under the protection of CAPs. or under the protection of the local AWD's (or other vessels tasked for that role)
http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/30/top5.htm
Deal in final stages for Chinese frigates
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Dec 29: Negotiations with China and the US for the procurement of new frigates and aircraft for the Pakistan Navy are in final stages, said Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Shahid Karimullah on Wednesday.
"Procurement of F-22P frigates from China is in final stages of contractual negotiations while the talks with the US are in progress and it would deliver two P-3C aircraft by the end of 2005," he said.
A press release issued by the Naval Headquarters said the Naval Chief had affirmed Pakistan Navy's resolve to continue the construction of Agosta 90-B submarines. He was addressing the Annual Efficiency Competition, Parade and Awards Ceremony 2004 of the Pakistan Navy Fleet led by Vice Admiral Mohammad Haroon, said the press release.
Admiral Shahid said the government was aware of Navy's requirements and was all set to provide full support to the marine force within the available resources. He expressed the hope that with all these projects, the Pakistan Navy would be able to overcome the shortage of platforms.
"However, availability of modern platforms and weapons is not the ultimate solution to our shortcomings, but the professional competence of fighting men and their resolve to defend the national interest makes the real difference," he remarked.
Admiral Shahid said a potent and efficient fleet was necessary to guard the country, for which the Pakistan Navy was focused to meet additional requirements of surface ships, submarines and long-range maritime patrol aircraft.
He expressed satisfaction over the performance and efforts of the PN fleet for successfully accomplishing the operational objectives set for the year and commended the full-time participation of the recently inducted VBSS boats in special operations.
Earlier, in his address of welcome, Vice Admiral Mohammad Haroon recounted the operational achievements of the PN fleet. He said the Pakistan Navy was proud of actively participating in the relief operations in the flood-hit areas of South East Asian countries.
The units of the PN fleet had carried out many operational exercises with foreign navies, including those of the Saudi Arabia, US, Oman and Turkey. Later, Chief Guest Admiral Shahid Karimullah gave away prizes to the winning units.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i thought the deal was already signed
Deal in final stages for Chinese frigates
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Dec 29: Negotiations with China and the US for the procurement of new frigates and aircraft for the Pakistan Navy are in final stages, said Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Shahid Karimullah on Wednesday.
"Procurement of F-22P frigates from China is in final stages of contractual negotiations while the talks with the US are in progress and it would deliver two P-3C aircraft by the end of 2005," he said.
A press release issued by the Naval Headquarters said the Naval Chief had affirmed Pakistan Navy's resolve to continue the construction of Agosta 90-B submarines. He was addressing the Annual Efficiency Competition, Parade and Awards Ceremony 2004 of the Pakistan Navy Fleet led by Vice Admiral Mohammad Haroon, said the press release.
Admiral Shahid said the government was aware of Navy's requirements and was all set to provide full support to the marine force within the available resources. He expressed the hope that with all these projects, the Pakistan Navy would be able to overcome the shortage of platforms.
"However, availability of modern platforms and weapons is not the ultimate solution to our shortcomings, but the professional competence of fighting men and their resolve to defend the national interest makes the real difference," he remarked.
Admiral Shahid said a potent and efficient fleet was necessary to guard the country, for which the Pakistan Navy was focused to meet additional requirements of surface ships, submarines and long-range maritime patrol aircraft.
He expressed satisfaction over the performance and efforts of the PN fleet for successfully accomplishing the operational objectives set for the year and commended the full-time participation of the recently inducted VBSS boats in special operations.
Earlier, in his address of welcome, Vice Admiral Mohammad Haroon recounted the operational achievements of the PN fleet. He said the Pakistan Navy was proud of actively participating in the relief operations in the flood-hit areas of South East Asian countries.
The units of the PN fleet had carried out many operational exercises with foreign navies, including those of the Saudi Arabia, US, Oman and Turkey. Later, Chief Guest Admiral Shahid Karimullah gave away prizes to the winning units.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i thought the deal was already signed
http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/31/nat12.htm
Talks held with China on frigates
By Arshad Sharif
ISLAMABAD, Dec 30: Pakistan and China discussed details of transfer of new weapons system to the Pakistan Navy at the Naval Headquarters here on Thursday.
During the meeting which took place between the Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Shahid Karimullah, and Chinese Ambassador Zhang Chunxiang, the two sides discussed issues related to the transfer of F-22P frigates and Z-9 helicopters to Pakistan.
Pakistan is looking forward to getting the Z-9 helicopters from China which would form an accessory to the F-22P frigates. The Z-9 helicopters would enhance the weapons range of the F-22P frigate, said a source.
The Z-9 gunship is a French-designed Z-9 (Dauphin II) multi-purpose helicopter produced under license in China, according to the source. With a capacity of 14 seats, the Z-9 helicopters can carry anti-submarine torpedoes and missiles in addition to having features of electronic warfare, communications, artillery spotting, naval ship-borne anti-submarine warfare and search and rescue.
The delivery of the frigates along with helicopters is said to be in their final stages of contractual negotiations. An official statement issued by the Naval Headquarters said the Chinese ambassador remained with the Naval chief for sometime and discussed matters of mutual interest.
RELIEF OPERATIONS: The Pakistan Navy is said to have rescued hundreds of people of different nationalities trapped in the Maldivian islands.
A press release issued by the Naval Headquarters said: "In continuation of the rescue and relief operations being carried out by PN ships Nasr and Tariq on the requirement of Maldivian authorities, PN Tariq has now been dispatched 150 nautical miles north of Male on Ugoofaarj Island in order to deliver relief goods, food items, medical stores and clothes."
The handout added that initially the PN ships were deployed south of Male and now the whole rescue operation would be conducted in the north by PNS Tariq along with PN helicopters and boats. In addition to the PN medical team, five local Maldivian officials had also boarded PNS Tariq, said the press release.
----------------------------------------------------------
so Pakistan is getting z-9 helis too
Talks held with China on frigates
By Arshad Sharif
ISLAMABAD, Dec 30: Pakistan and China discussed details of transfer of new weapons system to the Pakistan Navy at the Naval Headquarters here on Thursday.
During the meeting which took place between the Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Shahid Karimullah, and Chinese Ambassador Zhang Chunxiang, the two sides discussed issues related to the transfer of F-22P frigates and Z-9 helicopters to Pakistan.
Pakistan is looking forward to getting the Z-9 helicopters from China which would form an accessory to the F-22P frigates. The Z-9 helicopters would enhance the weapons range of the F-22P frigate, said a source.
The Z-9 gunship is a French-designed Z-9 (Dauphin II) multi-purpose helicopter produced under license in China, according to the source. With a capacity of 14 seats, the Z-9 helicopters can carry anti-submarine torpedoes and missiles in addition to having features of electronic warfare, communications, artillery spotting, naval ship-borne anti-submarine warfare and search and rescue.
The delivery of the frigates along with helicopters is said to be in their final stages of contractual negotiations. An official statement issued by the Naval Headquarters said the Chinese ambassador remained with the Naval chief for sometime and discussed matters of mutual interest.
RELIEF OPERATIONS: The Pakistan Navy is said to have rescued hundreds of people of different nationalities trapped in the Maldivian islands.
A press release issued by the Naval Headquarters said: "In continuation of the rescue and relief operations being carried out by PN ships Nasr and Tariq on the requirement of Maldivian authorities, PN Tariq has now been dispatched 150 nautical miles north of Male on Ugoofaarj Island in order to deliver relief goods, food items, medical stores and clothes."
The handout added that initially the PN ships were deployed south of Male and now the whole rescue operation would be conducted in the north by PNS Tariq along with PN helicopters and boats. In addition to the PN medical team, five local Maldivian officials had also boarded PNS Tariq, said the press release.
----------------------------------------------------------
so Pakistan is getting z-9 helis too
Last edited by a moderator:
mysterious
New Member
So how effective are these Z-9/Dauphin II helis in their naval role? I'm at a lack of information on their performance. Have they seen battlefield action or not?
here's some info on the Z-9
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/helicopter/z9.asp
look at the third pic down on this page. u can see it landing.
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/jianghu1_2_4.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/helicopter/z9.asp
look at the third pic down on this page. u can see it landing.
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/jianghu1_2_4.asp