Moderated taiwan invasion war game

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long live usa

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this will be about a mock invasion of taiwan,a member will play the different forces such as PRC commander and centcom with another as ROC commander and centcom,these members will post there moves and moderators will determine the outcome of each move,members can also post moves for other factors like japan and America
with that in mind ill put down the starting conditions

it is june 2008 taiwan has just elected another DPP leader he decides to declare independance the PRC condems this and gives him 3 days to back down.....or else
and the scenario proceeds from there...enjoy
 

long live usa

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this will be an example of a move:i will be an example of a overall taiwan army commander:

i have ordered the increaseing of readiness across the board and that all bridges within 10 miles of the sea be demolished,and that all peaple that are fit enough to be drafted for service and to be trained how to lay roadside bombs and to be issued a weapon if possible i also reqeast American intervention IE PGM atacks on PRC naval assets and want the us to start airdroping javelin and stinger weapons along with food stuffs

there that will be my first move as taiwan genral homland defense overall commander

enjoy!
 

long live usa

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well i never figured you as so brasen as to say such a thing,you must think of the conseqences of a nuclear atack,china WOULD NOT launch a nuclear atack on taiwan(it would not be in there best intrest if you know what i mean)so lets try not to involve chinas nuclear arsenal
 

Big-E

Banned Member
long live usa said:
well i never figured you as so brasen as to say such a thing,you must think of the conseqences of a nuclear atack,china WOULD NOT launch a nuclear atack on taiwan(it would not be in there best intrest if you know what i mean)so lets try not to involve chinas nuclear arsenal
Hey, I thought I was the one playing the game... don't get all prickly just b/c you lost! :eek:nfloorl:
 

long live usa

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Big-E said:
Hey, I thought I was the one playing the game... don't get all prickly just b/c you lost! :eek:nfloorl:
or have i?, the US and other countries shocked at chinas use of nuclear(in the 1 in 1 milion chance they would) weapons on a country that had not even atacked them yet,decide to launch a full scale atack on china,there end of the nuclear scenario back to the topic of a conventioanal invasion please
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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Verified Defense Pro
This thread needs to show some substance pretty quickly or it risks getting locked.

There is no point in discussing any response to an invasion unless the defenders have been given a brief of what they're up against in the first plane.

in other words, an ORBAT needs to be defined for the aggressor so that the defender can gauge what their level of response will be.

in other words - fundamentally you need to lay out the disposition of the invasion force first.

the last major amphibious assault performed was in 1982 against a benign opposition. that last major amphibious assault prior to that was almost 30 years prior.

so if you intend to discuss an amphibious assault as the precursor to a Taiwanese defence, then you need to establish a pretty good argument in support of it.

Amphib assaults haven't been the "offense de rigeur" in the last 50+ years for a reason....
 
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long live usa

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yes it could very well be the million man swim,i will try and get back on here soon to out line an invasion move,but if your placing a move for PLA then outline invasion strenght
 

Rokossovski

New Member
gf0012-aust said:
This thread needs to show some substance pretty quickly or it risks getting locked.

There is no point in discussing any response to an invasion unless the defenders have been given a brief of what they're up against in the first plane.

in other words, an ORBAT needs to be defined for the aggressor so that the defender can gauge what their level of response will be.

in other words - fundamentally you need to lay out the disposition of the invasion force first.

the last major amphibious assault performed was in 1982 against a benign opposition. that last major amphibious assault prior to that was almost 30 years prior.

so if you intend to discuss an amphibious assault as the precursor to a Taiwanese defence, then you need to establish a pretty good argument in support of it.

Amphib assaults haven't been the "offense de rigeur" in the last 50+ years for a reason....
How else to the PRC invade Taiwan? It is an island afterall. Would an ampibious assault not be preferrable to assult by the air. Paratroopers would be even more vulnerable than the marines.

Whichever way the PRC commander goes, the first hours are when the PRC forces are likely to be most vulnerable and therefore these first few hours that will be vital for Taiwan in the face of overwhelming odds.
 

long live usa

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Forget About Posting Moves And All That Stuff

posting moves is overly complicated so from now on in this thread forget about it and simply give your opinion on a chinese atack/invasion against taiwan,i will give mine later but now i must sleep:sleepy2
 

Wild Weasel

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Not really my opinion, per se, but rather a point of fact:
The very first thing that would take place is the movement of personnel, and assets to coastal staging areas. I see no way that this can be carried out in total secrecy, given the level of surveillance that China is constantly under.

So, we then have to assume that Taiwan and her allies are aware of the PRC's preparations and general dispostion, and are making moves to counter.

We have to assume that the American, Austrailian, and Japanese response would be to defend Taiwan, because they stand to lose more if the PRC manages to capture or destroy the ROC. They have the intelligence, strike assets, and the ability to project power. A Coalition to defend Taiwan can be quickly assembled, with little reason for international backlash or interference- defending Taiwan from unwaranted, overt PRC aggression is an easily defendible position at the UN.

We have to assume that the American carrier task force in Japan is placed on alert, and/or preparing to deploy in force. Any other available groups and units in the region are also being tasked, and Taiwan's defense forces are digging in.

Without maintaining total OPSEC, the PRC is already fighting an uphill battle- even if they have the initiative, and overwhelming numbers.

One variable is unknown: The PRC's vast number of conventional, and nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles that are already targeted at Taiwan.
If the Chinese are truely commited to retaking the island by force, then we should probably assume that they would prepare the battle space by missile bombardment. They have to soften Taiwan's defenses, maintain their offensive momentum, and attempt to crush morale.
So, it's likely that a number of missiles will be launched in the opening hours of an invasion. The success of these strikes, or the effect they have on Taiwan's defenses is a real question at this point.
But these missiles are a major issue, and if they are used- they could make all the difference towards determining the outcome. Suffice to say, bombarding Taiwan with ballistic missiles would be viewed as a very serious escalation, and the international backlash could be far worse than China is prepared to withstand. Collateral damage and casulties are a certainty, and that won't help China's position at all.
If China is so motivated to reclaim the province by force, they will have to pay for it in blood, and face the consequences in the arena of international politics.

Of course, if the PRC are so brazen to use nuclear warheads at any point- their ultimate destruction becomes a foregone conclusion. There can be no reconciliation or justification for attacking Taiwan with nuclear weapons, and the hammer will fall swiftly and hard in retribution for such a criminal act.

Now, I see no reason for Coalition forces to attempt to dominate and secure the staights- to do so places men and equipment at unnecessary risk. Carrier, and surface action groups should remain a safe distance away to the south and east of the island. SSN's, and FFG's/LCS(?) could possibly operate closer to the island, interdicting PLAN subs and other targets of opportunity.
Taiwan's military should be expected to defend their territory only, and to hold the line on the beaches.
The Coalition forces merely have to deny the PRC access to the straights by designating the waters and airspace between the mainland and Taiwan as a free fire zone. Any air/sea/sub-surface contact in the exclusion zone that is not immediately identifiable as a friendly, becomes a target of opportunity.
Long-range AAM's and SAM's from Coalition air and sea assets should be instrumental in destroying PLAF fighters and bombers, allowing ROC air defences to target whatever else the Chinese have pressed into service as a troop transport. It goes without saying that airliners, cropdusters, and fishing trawlers aren't going to last long once they come within range of the ROC's long range missiles- and their artillery, ATGM's, and MANPADS should be able to finish off any survivors with relative ease. ( As long as they can continue to supply their systems with ammo. )

By attriting whatever Chinese forces that attempts to cross, China would be forced to attack the supporting Coalition task forces in blue water. Naturally, this places China at a further disadvantge- These navies dominate in blue water enviroments. Additionally, the further away that the PRC forces must extend from the mainland, the greater the strain to their offensive operation.
It's likely that massed fighter and bomber raids against carrier groups would be one-way trips for the PLAF, and those are assets they cannot afford to lose.

In addition, the Coalition ( US forces in particular ) can further destabilize the PRC's invasion plans and operations by attacking her garrisons with force enablers/multipliers, and strike assets. They can initiate these strikes from stand-off range, without warning, at any time, with a very high PK per sortie- perhaps before the main elements of the invasion force are even underway.
If the PRC's airfields and port facilites in the theater are affectively put out of commision by Coalition strikes- their ability to project power, recoup losses, and launch further offensive operations is greatly diminished.

Meanwhile, the ROC forces are at their highest level of readiness, and can focus their attention on maintaining the strength of their ORBAT, defending beachheads and landing zones, and using their longer-ranged defenses and weapons to attrite the PRC's units as far from the island as possible.
By holding the majority of their hardware in reserve, and under shelter from PRC air, and missile strikes- the ROC should have sufficient forces availaible to smash anything that manages to survive the crossing.

I'd surmise that it is possible for the PRC to retake Taiwan- but only if they are willing to pay a very great price, and prehaps even risk their own destruction in the pursuit.
One thing is certain- In the end there is likely to be at least one less country when the smoke finally clears.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Surprise the key

Not really my opinion, per se, but rather a point of fact:
The very first thing that would take place is the movement of personnel, and assets to coastal staging areas. I see no way that this can be carried out in total secrecy, given the level of surveillance that China is constantly under.
Ok, long live...there is a problem.
I know how to invade Taiwan, but we are not the only people reading this thread :)
If I write here how to do it, what is to stop PRC from doing it?
It would also screw US strategy mightily and although I don't particularly feel anything for the current Administration, I don't think I should inflict this in the American people even if they can be a bit tiresome at times.

The key is surprise. The Chinese only trite this as their second principle of war because they don't want to be THAT obvious. They will NEVER use significantly destructive weapons on Taiwan. What is the point of returning Taiwan to China if it needs massive investment to rebuild?!
In truth invading Taiwan is a breeze.
If you want to contact me off the forum, we can talk about it.
Sorry.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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If I write here how to do it, what is to stop PRC from doing it?
It would also screw US strategy mightily and although I don't particularly feel anything for the current Administration, I don't think I should inflict this in the American people even if they can be a bit tiresome at times.
Somehow I think the people who do TAC planning (and there are a couple of people in here who have done TAC planning at a theatre level) aren't going to be overly surprised at what someone might post on the internet. ;)
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
TAC surprise

the people who do TAC planning...aren't going to be overly surprised at what someone might post on the internet. ;)
I'm not looking to surprise THEM
And by the way I was questioned by the NY police after 9/11 because it turns out the Al Qaeda were using Internet to communicate

The point of surprise is to surprise people who do TAC planning :)
That is why they hang out in the Internet looking for weird ideas :)
If they want my ideas they can give me a job ;)

By the way, Australia is also a large landmass completely surrounded by water, and in 50 years PRC will have a navy larger then the USN.
Cheers
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
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And by the way I was questioned by the NY police after 9/11 because it turns out the Al Qaeda were using Internet to communicate
I find that interesting. The FBI actually hold the charter for all continental investigation work for 9/11.

The point of surprise is to surprise people who do TAC planning :)
That is why they hang out in the Internet looking for weird ideas :)
If they want my ideas they can give me a job ;)
Its called "harvesting" - and everyone with a NIS does it.


By the way, Australia is also a large landmass completely surrounded by water, and in 50 years PRC will have a navy larger then the USN.
Cheers
That also is interesting as it assumes the following:

  • that the USN will be caught in some temporal flux and make no attempt to maintain separation of capability superiority - let alone accept parity and superiority
  • it assumes that the US will willingly abrogate Mahanian bedrock beliefs (thats not going to happen in 200 years - let alone 50 years if they have anything to say about it)
  • that the threat matrix for both countries is unimpeachable and thus scriptable (for the next 50 years). hell, nobody - and I mean nobody would have said in 1988 that the USSR was going to collapse like a deck of cards within 12 months. You want to bet on a 50 year window?
  • that absolute mass denotes superiority - it doesn't. military competency has got nothing to do with absolutes of mass. The first major post classical significant historical lesson was Carthage vs the Roman Republics in round 1 . The object end lesson about Carthage and the Roman Republic is not Hannibal Barca - its Scipio Africanus. (there's a message there :rolleyes: )
  • that China is a continental power - and her clear vulnerability is the fact that she is coast locked and thus easier to monitor 24/7. Thats why landlocked countries are easier to deal with as far as Sat racetracking is concerned.
  • it assumes a bipolar world as no other variables are counted in so as to pollute the mix. The PACRIM is on the verge for the forseeable future - but so is Africa. Population wise Continental Africa is projected to pass both India and China within the next 50 years.
I recall some historical planning done by the US vs USSR during the cold war - in Europe alone at one point there were some 250+ varied scenarios.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Dear gefootwelve :)
This, I suspect is a whole new thread, so will reply later.
Besides I have to go.
There was much confusion in the week after the attacks, and in NY in particular.
"I recall some historical planning done by the US vs USSR during the cold war - in Europe alone at one point there were some 250+ varied scenarios." - And did any of them predict Louisiana winning the War ? :)
 

Big-E

Banned Member
I'm not looking to surprise THEM
And by the way I was questioned by the NY police after 9/11 because it turns out the Al Qaeda were using Internet to communicate

The point of surprise is to surprise people who do TAC planning :)
That is why they hang out in the Internet looking for weird ideas :)
If they want my ideas they can give me a job ;)

By the way, Australia is also a large landmass completely surrounded by water, and in 50 years PRC will have a navy larger then the USN.
Cheers
If you want a job doing tactical planning you had best express some ideas that might peak their interest. Otherwise your skills will go unrealized.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
[*]it assumes that the US will willingly abrogate Mahanian bedrock beliefs (thats not going to happen in 200 years - let alone 50 years if they have anything to say about it)
Did you not hear... CNO wants to turn over our obligations to "global partners" and leave us with tugboats. Talk about taking joint operations a dozen steps too far. 1000 ship navy my ass!
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Big-E,
I have learned that firstly I don't trust anyone online, which I had confirmed 4 times by actually meeting people I was talking to.

Secondly, if someone is interested enough, they'll talk to me.

Lastly, I don't do theories. This is not a 'scenario' but an executable plan. Its not a sure thing, but it would work and the Chinese would love it because its just what they would do IF they though of it. However I don't want to live in Beijing. I don't like Chinese food, and I like to look at the sky sometimes and see blue: rolleyes:

I can't say I'm a genius, and I can't claim to know a lot. I just find that I can come up with interesting ideas, and I have been fascinated by defence area for half my life, so I was thinking that since my previous employer (major bank) didn't appreciate my talents I might as well do something I really like.
 
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