mirage2000 out of iaf race for mrca

[aaaditya]

1. dont give me links to websites but links to the webpages.
2. the links you have given are contradictory to each other.
3. SU30MKI cannot carry brahmos on its wings.
4. do u realise u are trying to fit the 8.4 m long missile on a 10.3 m long plane. ( su30 is 14 m long).
5. even prithvi is 300 km range. then i guess we can even carry prithvi on rafale/su30.
6. about the missiles u have mentioned please care to give the links for the same. ?

no ajay dr.sivathanu pillai the director of brahmos has stated in an interview with the force magazine,that the su30mki's wings will have to be strenghtened slightly for it be able to carry the brahmos missile.
the brahmos length will definitely be reduced since it will have a smaller and less powerfull booster,because the high velocity of the launch platform will ensure that it will be able to mintain its speed and range with a less powerfull booster,however the iaf is still studying the proposal to modify the su30mki to be able to carry and fire brahmos from its wings.

however the iaf has expressed a desire to have the brahmos missile integrated to the fuselage pylon of the su30 on a priority basis(1 missile).

prithvi cannot be carried because it weighs a solid 5 tons per missile also it is a liquid fuelled missile ,whose diameter is 1 metre,to fuel a prithvi missile takes in excess of 20 minutes and a lot of special vehicles and equipment,the liquid fuel used in the prithvi missile is highly combustible and corosive ,hence prithvi has to be fuelled only before the launch of the missile.

you can check www.fas.org for info on the storm shadow/apache missile,go to the countries section ,choose a country and click the weapons,also you can get info on the rafale from both the websites(www.fas.org and airforce-technology.com),i got the info about the storm shadow loadout of the rafale from a flight magazine nearly 2 years old so you can check the archives of flight international,as for as the dr.sivathanu pillai's interview ,the website is www.forceindia.net ,however to read the full article you may have to take a subscription.alternately you can find the article in the br forum .

 

[ajaybhutani]

no ajay dr.sivathanu pillai the director of brahmos has stated in an interview with the force magazine,that the su30mki's wings will have to be strenghtened slightly for it be able to carry the brahmos missile.

as of now MKI cannot carry brahmos on its wings.

prithvi cannot be carried because it weighs a solid 5 tons per missile also it is a liquid fuelled missile ,whose diameter is 1 metre,to fuel a prithvi missile takes in excess of 20 minutes and a lot of special vehicles and equipment,the liquid fuel used in the prithvi missile is highly combustible and corosive ,hence prithvi has to be fuelled only before the launch of the missile.

i know MKI cannot carry prithvi.. i used it as an example to state that even though range for prithvi is same as brahmos we still cannot carry it on mki. In a way to say that even though rafale can carry missiles of similar ranges than brahmos we still cannot claim that it will be able to carry brahmos. unless we look at length,width,weight of the missiles.

you can check www.fas.org for info on the storm shadow/apache missile,go to the countries section ,choose a country and click the weapons,also you can get info on the rafale from both the websites(www.fas.org and airforce-technology.com),i got the info about the storm shadow loadout of the rafale from a flight magazine nearly 2 years old so you can check the archives of flight international,as for as the dr.sivathanu pillai's interview ,the website is www.forceindia.net ,however to read the full article you may have to take a subscription.alternately you can find the article in the br forum .

from your sources. weight of storm shadow is just 1300 kgs and over five metres long. clearly cannot be compared to brahmos specifications. even after weight and length reductions due to smaller booster. we still wont be near such length/weight as storm shadow.
furthermore the two links u gave for rafale specs have different values for payload(9400kgs and app 8000 kg for the second.). I havent seen figure of 9400 on any other website for rafale.

 

[aaaditya]

well guys france has just offered india a sweetener.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=356944


RAFALESFrench company offers upgraded fighter jetAK DHAR NEW DELHI, FEB 21 (PTI)
With the Indian Air Force close to floating international tenders for acquisition of 126 multi-role combat aircraft, French defence major Dassault Aviation has offered to sell its latest fighters Rafale.
The French offer was made by Chacks Edelstenne, CEO of Dassault Aviation, when he called on the Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh here yesterday. The Deputy Chief of the Air Staff Air Marshal AK Nangalia was also present.
Edelstenne told PTI his company informed the Minister of Dassault's decision not to field its upgraded Mirage 2000-5 for the Indian deal. The French Mirages were leading contenders for the Indian sale, as the IAF already has 40 Mirage-2000D aircraft in its inventory.
"We are on the verge of closing the Mirage fighter assembly line and want to offer India a quantum jump in technology in the shape of upgraded new multi-mission Rafales", he said.
"Though India has not not floated the Request for Proposals (RFP), we have conveyed to India to supply 40 Rafale multi-mission fighters in single source deal", the Dassault CEO, who is currently here as part of French President Jacques Chirac business entourage, said.

And in a major move, French aviation engine giant, Snecma, which is bidding for DRDO's joint collaboration project on the Kaveri engines, has offered to mount them in two Rafale fighters. Snecma is already collaborating with public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on production of aero engines powering the Advanced Light Helicopters.
Dassult's surprise bid to pitch in its Rafale fighters for the IAF's multi-role combat aircraft project appears significant indicating that India could opt for two types of fighters in its moves to cover the shortfall in squadron strength.
Besides, Dassault, four other companies American Boeing and Lockheed-Martin, Swedish Grippen and Russian Mig-29S are competing for the Indian sale. IAF Chief S P Tyagi has said that once the RFP was floated,other bidders were also welcome to join in. Rafale, along with Boeings F-18 , both of which have some of the features of the fifth generation fighters are expected to be priced higher. During a closed door meeting with accompanying French Business delegation here yesterday, President Chirac is understood to have told them that Indian market was now highly competative and French companies would have to offer latest technology if they was to make deep inroads here.


well things are getting interesting arent they.

 

[aaaditya]

also it seems the mrca order is now being reworked to ,it will now be worth 190 fighters including some for navy:

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 22, 2006
India expects to raise fighter requirement

RAHUL BEDI JDW Correspondent
New Delhi

* The possible expansion of India's multirole combat aircraft requirement is driven by interest from the navy

* The RfP is being "reworked" in light of the navy's requirement

India is expected to increase its initial requirement for 126 multirole combat aircraft (MRCA) for its air force to around 180-190 aircraft, with the additional number being considered for acquisition by the Indian Navy (IN).

This increase would significantly boost the cost of the proposed fighter purchase, which is expected to take four to five years to finalise, to around USD10 billion or more, Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources said.

Official sources indicated that naval plans to 'significantly' augment its strike capability and range to deal with out-of-area contingencies had delayed the MoD's dispatch of the request for proposals (RfP) for the aircraft for more than a year after the Indian Air Force (IAF) first publicly declared its intent to import 126 fighters.

RfPs are to be issued for the Mirage 2000-5 and Rafale from France, the F-16 and F/A-18 (US), the MiG-35 (Russia), JAS 39 Gripen (Sweden) and the Eurofighter Typhoon, senior IAF officials confirmed recently. The Rafale and Typhoon were not initially being considered, but have entered the race recently.

IAF Air Chief Marshal Shashindra Pal Tyagi declared in November 2005 that the RfP for the aircraft would be issued "within a month". However, official sources said the RfP was currently in the process of being "reworked" collectively in light of the navy's requirement and in all likelihood would be issued over the next few months.

The IN is poised for large-scale hardware acquisitions that include eight maritime reconnaissance aircraft, helicopters, submarines, frigates and two aircraft carriers by 2012 for an extended operational role in the Indian Ocean region.

MoD sources said the delay in dispatching the RfP was also due to the 'lack of clarity' in the government's revised defence procurement procedures (DPP) that mandate a 30 per cent offset in all arms contracts worth more than INR3 billion (USD 68 million).

"Elucidation on offsets has acquired immediacy as India is poised for a massive weapons buying spree that includes the MRCA," a senior MoD official said. It needs detailed discussion between the MoD and private industry that has not even started yet, he added.

According to a DPP statement, announced last year, the MoD's Services Capital Acquisition Plan categorisation committee would recommend which of the state-owned defence public sector units or ordnance factory board plants would assist the ministry in allocating the offset contracts for which they had neither the expertise, nor the experience or infrastructure to support.

The vague offset policy also does not stipulate whether the offset would relate to 'direct' or 'indirect' offset; or if discharging counter-trade obligations would also take into account transfer of technology, licensed or joint production of weapon platforms and systems.

There were also no provisions with the DPP to assign 'offset multipliers', or any guidelines on whether foreign direct investment in industrial sectors other than defence would be considered offsets.

Meanwhile, when French President Jacques Chirac visits New Delhi on 19 February accompanied by a military delegation led by Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie, he is expected to withdraw Dassault's Mirage 2000-5 fighters from the reckoning for the Indian contract, pushing instead for the new-generation Rafale fighter.

Official sources said Dassault had informally conveyed recently to the IAF its intent to close its Mirage 2000-5 production lines because of the time it would take for the MRCA contract to be decided, making way for the Rafale's full-rate production.

Dassault is also believed to have informed the IAF - which operates around 50 Mirage 2000Hs - that its extensive Mirage repair and servicing facilities set up by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited at Bangalore in the south, would require only 'limited modification' to accommodate the Rafale as this fighter has much in the common with the Mirage series.

In the late 1990s Dassault pulled its Alpha Jet trainer out of the race for the IAF's contract for 66 advanced jet trainers (AJTs) after it ceased producing the trainer while waiting for India to make a decision. BAE Systems' Hawk was eventually awarded the USD1.7 billion AJT deal in September 2003 after nearly two decades of negotiations.

Separately, IAF Vice Chief Air Marshal Ajit Bhavnani recently declared that the service would order 20 locally designed Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) by the end of March.

AM Bhavnani said deliveries of the Tejas would begin in 2008 and end three years later. Thereafter, the IAF would consider a follow-on order for a similar number estimated to cost around INR20 billion, officials said.