t68
Well-Known Member
Geebuz that's eye watering in the diffrence in flight hour cost, over the projected lives it might be cheaper just to scrap them and buy Blackhawk's
Military Aviation News and Discussion
- Thread starter ngatimozart
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Geebuz that's eye watering in the diffrence in flight hour cost, over the projected lives it might be cheaper just to scrap them and buy Blackhawk's
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- #83
I would treat that Sputnik story with some caution and probably a fair amount of salt.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Actually the ratio looks about right, unfortunately. According to an ANAO report from June 2014 on Australia's MRH90's, prior to contract re-negotiation the MRH90 operating costs per flight hour was ~5 times that of Army's S-70A-9 Black Hawk helicopters. Further, the ratio of maintenance man-hours to flight hours had been 'improved' by April 2014 to 27 hours per flight hour. Admitted that is better than what it had been, which peaked at 97 man-hours per flight hour in Jan. 2012.
Also in the footnotes of the report, it indicated that from April 2013 to April 2014, the average number of serviceable MRH90's in ADF service was 48%, when the sustainment contract's target was 65%. The report also noted that the design proved to be more developmental than expected during the source selection in 2004 & 2006.
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- #85
Thanks Tod.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
It is rather amazing how many countries have been burned by helicopter procurements in the last 10-15 years. Canada, needless to say, has had its horror-show Cyclone project, several countries have NH-90 disappointments, and the Tiger attack helicopter isn't exactly a star either. None of these machines were ready for primetime when they were ordered and years later they still lacking. Not sure about other countries regarding medium lift helicopters but in Canada's case, politicians enabled Sikorsky to bid an non-existent machine against an incomplete product (NH-90) and a working product (EH-101 now AH-101). I guess the moral of the story regarding helicopters is fly before you buy.
t68
Well-Known Member
In the ADF case it should have waited to see the true cost when they only ordered enough for the RAN, then got the hell out of dodge when the realized the true cost
Fixed that for you.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
There were at least two opportunities where Canada could have done the same and just gone back to a solution that was already flying, the Merlin. The final cost for the Cyclone project is not going to be pretty and performance parameters will possibility be reduced. Twelve years after the order, we only have a little over 50% delivered. Norway's NH-90s only took 10 years.
It will be some before cost of operation is publically known.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Janes is reporting interesting comments from the Commander of the French Army Aviation concerning the use of tactical fixed wing in place of helicopters as a means of cutting costs and meeting operational requirements. Everything old is new again.
French Army looks to fixed-wing aircraft to reduce cost of some helicopter operations | Jane's 360
Tools in the tool box. No single platform can do everything. Nice to see comments like this from a senior commander.
French Army looks to fixed-wing aircraft to reduce cost of some helicopter operations | Jane's 360
Tools in the tool box. No single platform can do everything. Nice to see comments like this from a senior commander.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
With no Griffon replacement on the horizon this is something Canada may want to consider.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Aircraft made here such as the Twin Otter from Viking or smaller aircraft like the Cessna 208 or the PAC 750xl. Good support for Special Forces in operations with austere facilities or places where military helicopters stand out, particularly western choppers.
Even in Canada the need for utility and liason aircraft for use in short haul operations our options are extremely limited, Hercules or a Griffon.
Even in Canada the need for utility and liason aircraft for use in short haul operations our options are extremely limited, Hercules or a Griffon.
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- #93
It appears that Qatar are wanting to acquire an unknown number of the KHI C-2. This story is from last September and I can't remember seeing anything regarding it since.
JAPAN COULD SELL KAWASAKI C-2 CARGO AIRCRAFT TO UAE - The Aviation Geek Club
JAPAN COULD SELL KAWASAKI C-2 CARGO AIRCRAFT TO UAE - The Aviation Geek Club
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I do not know, but I suspect the increased weight and size of the AW101 vs. the MRH90 was a bit too much. Keep in mind also that the MRH90 in ADF service was chosen to be the helicopter fleet rationalization replacement for three different helicopter designs, the UH-1H 'Huey' and S-70A-9 Black Hawk utility helicopters, and the medium-lift Sea King Mk 50 helicopter. Given that the seated troop capacity for some versions of the AW101 is ~30 or close to triple the Black Hawk capacity (and still 50% more than the NH90's claimed capacity...) I suspect the AW101 was a bit too much helicopter for what the planners or decision-makers were attempting.
Frankly I believe the idea was overly ambitious and somewhat poorly thought, and that is before one gets into just how developmental the NH90 has actually proven to be, as well as the methodologies used to predict/claim operational and maintenance costs and requirements.
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- #96
Embraer has announced an export order of 6 x KC-390 to Sky Tech an aviation services company. What is not known is whether not this is a separate order to the Portuguese Air Force.
Maybe they have , or will be looking for a lease customer, This can be quite a popular move for armed forces that have a capital charge type accounting system similar to ours.
t68
Well-Known Member
Does leasing get around that, also got to take into account when leasing the restrictions placed on the airframes from the vendor, like the UK C17 deal
AFAIK the Portuguese Air Force hasn't signed a contract yet. Last I heard (some weeks ago) was a press report that negotiations were at an advanced stage.
This could be a separate sale, but one possibility is that this is how the PAF contract is configured.
Certainly the terms of the lease can be restrictive, though often there will be an out clause on the bases of break it and you pay for it, as opposed to any insurance cover. Leasing allows for a limited capital budget to be used for higher priority items at the expense of the operational budget, however when the capital charge or lack of, is factored in this cost is minimal.