MBT-2000 (Al-khalid / Type-90-IIM)

[Chuncho]

Hello friends,

I'm trying to get info on this tank as there is a big rumor in my country that it will be the next MBT for the EP (Peruvian Army) replacing our aging T-55s. Here in Peru the chinese products do not have a reputable opinion so everybody is worry about it. How this tank is doing this with the Pakistani Army?

Thank you

 

[SURB]

Hello friends,

I'm trying to get info on this tank as there is a big rumor in my country that it will be the next MBT for the EP (Peruvian Army) replacing our aging T-55s. Here in Peru the chinese products do not have a reputable opinion so everybody is worry about it. How this tank is doing this with the Pakistani Army?

Thank you

For me it depends upon the climate and terrain you got in Peru ; AL-KHALID is a modern tank by any means,it has the ability for future upgrades currently there are rumors of AL-KHALID 2.
It is light weight and hence agile, if we compere it with other tanks of same stats.It is cost effective.It has already attracted foreign customers for heavy industries taxila,Saudi Arabia has already said it would buy AL-KHALID.The Saudi Arabian Army began conducting trials of the Al-Khalid's desert performance in April 2006, after expressing interest in purchasing a batch of the tank 2 years earlier.
It is powered by 1200 HP engine from Ukraine.It carries french auto-tracking system, auto-loaders, it has the ability to fire in motion which now a days most tanks have got.
For complete specs i will refer this link (of HIT)
::: DEPO - Defence Export Promotion Organization :::
In 2006 a U.S.-based market/special research organisation reported findings showing that the Al-Khalid, along with two other MBTs, would account for nearly 45% of all new MBTs built until 2015.
AL-KHALID has seen some action in swat and waziritan war against talibans (with a hilly and difficult terrain for which it wasn't designed i would say) i hope it will prove it's excellence in mechanized battles because of it's advanced capabilities.
Yeah we can say that Project MBT-2000 Khalid is being executed in close collaboration with China’s NORINCO. A memorandum to this effect was signed between the two countries sometime in the late 80s. According to analysts MBT-2000 Khalid is rated more than a match for the Soviet supplied T-72 tanks held by Pakistan army. You can see from the specs that this tank isn't a chinese stuff, Pakistani engineers has made step-by-step approach towards it's manufacture and various contributions of advanced components from different countries has made it a deadly machine.

 

[Feanor]

It should cover the needs Peru has in regards to MBTs. Do you have a source that they are indeed purchasing it?

 

[Chuncho]

It should cover the needs Peru has in regards to MBTs. Do you have a source that they are indeed purchasing it?

Hello Feanor,

There is no an official statement yet but the rumors are high, The EP just finished testing the polish PT-91P brought by BUMAR to SITDEF a few month ago but in Lima they are stating unnoficially that the MBT-2000 is the serious candidate. The technical comitte in charge of choosing the new MBT decided for the T-90 but apparently cost is what is driving the goverment to buy the MBT-2000.

On 12/08 in Lima we will have the military parade so we will see if they surprise us with something.

Regards.

 

[Feanor]

What's the cost for the Al-Khalid? Fyi the T-90S is considered a "budget" MBT at something like 2.2 mln USD.

 

[SURB]

It's just for price estimation; i want to draw no comparisons, i have read some where that 3 Al Khalids can be bought where for the same price only 1 M1 Abrams can be bought (which i doubt to be correct) but for Peruvian Army it is a good choice. because Peru has versatile geographic conditions from dry sandy beeches, to harsh desert landscapes; it is what Al-Khalid is made for.
What i have found is that the sale of 22 Al-Khalid MBTs to the Sri Lanka Army was finalised it was expected to be a deal worth over US$100 million , but we can't just divide the sum to get the price of single tank beacuse it will be incliuding spareparts, training and things like that.Later due to financial problems they didn't finalized it.
Here is an article where you can estimate the price.

http://pakistantimes.net/2004/12/10/top1.htm

I'm trying to get info on this tank as there is a big rumor in my country that it will be the next MBT for the EP (Peruvian Army) replacing our aging T-55s

As you informed us your country is currently using T-55 it will not take lot of time and extra efforts for Al Khalid to be digested easily and will pose an easy task to achieve.

 

[Feanor]

Well yes it does stand to reason that lifetime cost and unit cost are not proportional. The question then is, what are the unit costs, what's the size of the order, and what the budget that the Peruvians have for the purchase. I'm also still waiting for a source. Also iirc the Abrams is something like 6 million a piece. So you can almost buy 3 T-90S for one M1A2...

 

[kay_man]

It's just for price estimation; i want to draw no comparisons, i have read some where that 3 Al Khalids can be bought where for the same price only 1 M1 Abrams can be bought (which i doubt to be correct) but for Peruvian Army it is a good choice. because Peru has versatile geographic conditions from dry sandy beeches, to harsh desert landscapes; it is what Al-Khalid is made for.
What i have found is that the sale of 22 Al-Khalid MBTs to the Sri Lanka Army was finalised it was expected to be a deal worth over US$100 million , but we can't just divide the sum to get the price of single tank beacuse it will be incliuding spareparts, training and things like that.Later due to financial problems they didn't finalized it.
Here is an article where you can estimate the price.

Pakistan Times | Top Story: 'Pakistan moves swiftly to self-reliance in defence needs'


As you informed us your country is currently using T-55 it will not take lot of time and extra efforts for Al Khalid to be digested easily and will pose an easy task to achieve.

When did Sri-Lanka buy Al-khalids?
the last i heard is that they wanted to go for the Al-Zarrar type upgrade for their existing tanks.

 

[Chuncho]

Well yes it does stand to reason that lifetime cost and unit cost are not proportional. The question then is, what are the unit costs, what's the size of the order, and what the budget that the Peruvians have for the purchase. I'm also still waiting for a source. Also iirc the Abrams is something like 6 million a piece. So you can almost buy 3 T-90S for one M1A2...

The cost per unit that we are handling for a T-90S here in the peruvian military forums is estimated at around $3-3.5mill and for the MBT-2000 at around $2-2.5mill (around the same for the PT-91). The quantity is estimated by several goverment officials that will be around 80 to 120 units.

As I said on my previous post this is only a big rumor but we will have some clarification by 12/08 on the military parade, officially the announce of the new MBT for the EP will happen by the 1st week of January 2010.

 

[SURB]

Originally Posted by surb
It's just for price estimation; i want to draw no comparisons, i have read some where that 3 Al Khalids can be bought where for the same price only 1 M1 Abrams can be bought (which i doubt to be correct) but for Peruvian Army it is a good choice. because Peru has versatile geographic conditions from dry sandy beeches, to harsh desert landscapes; it is what Al-Khalid is made for.
What i have found is that the sale of 22 Al-Khalid MBTs to the Sri Lanka Army was finalised it was expected to be a deal worth over US$100 million , but we can't just divide the sum to get the price of single tank beacuse it will be incliuding spareparts, training and things like that.Later due to financial problems they didn't finalized it.
Here is an article where you can estimate the price.

Pakistan Times | Top Story: 'Pakistan moves swiftly to self-reliance in defence needs'


As you informed us your country is currently using T-55 it will not take lot of time and extra efforts for Al Khalid to be digested easily and will pose an easy task to achieve.

When did Sri-Lanka buy Al-khalids?
the last i heard is that they wanted to go for the Al-Zarrar type upgrade for their existing tanks.

yeah i also said that the deal never got signed and for their interest in AL-Zarrar i have no information but Bangladesh do showed interest in them(al-zarrar) it wanted to upgrade 300 of it's Type 59 tanks to Al-Zarrar standard at the Bangladesh Army's 902 Heavy Workshop, making that country the first export customer of the Al-Zarrar.
Al-Zarrar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SABRE]

When did Sri-Lanka buy Al-khalids?
the last i heard is that they wanted to go for the Al-Zarrar type upgrade for their existing tanks.

There have been rumors of Pakistan providing Sri Lankan army with Al-Khalid. Initially it was said SL received 2 to 4 AKs (along with some Al-Zarar MBTs) around 2006/2007 and later reports suggest around 22 AKs were delivered during the last stages of SL Army vs LTTE conflict. Try googling it but do keep in mind they are just rumors (except that Al-Zarars were given to SL Army).

 

[SURB]

The quantity is estimated by several goverment officials that will be around 80 to 120 units.

let's take the arithmetic mean =100 tanks
and about srilankan deal ,something got wrong with that deal ,as i said AL-KHALID never been given to them because the deal never signed, but people were really confident about that even said first battlefield for alkhalid will be srilanka.
Heavy Metal - Pakistani AFVs

 

[SABRE]

The cost per unit that we are handling for a T-90S here in the peruvian military forums is estimated at around $3-3.5mill and for the MBT-2000 at around $2-2.5mill (around the same for the PT-91). The quantity is estimated by several goverment officials that will be around 80 to 120 units.

As I said on my previous post this is only a big rumor but we will have some clarification by 12/08 on the military parade, officially the announce of the new MBT for the EP will happen by the 1st week of January 2010.

Not much of a tank price expert here but I think MBT-2000 should cost lesser then T-90. Al-Khalid is basically MBT-2000 but its price goes little beyond regular MBT-2000 due to mix of Western, Chinese, Ukrainian(?) and Pakistani electronics and other equipment.

Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) of Pakistan took the joint venture with NORINCO of China to develop a tank that can survive hot desert conditions. This was eventually done when U.S M1 Abrahams MBT failed its trial in hot desertic conditions of Bahawalpur desert in Pakistan (missed all 10 targets and then broke down) in 1988. Another factor for development of this tank with China were American sanctions on arms sells to Pakistan in 1990s. Now I have seen Al-Khalid videos and the MBT itself personally a few times and I know it performs pretty good in desert, especially when it comes to speed and targettig. It is probably second to none but I don't know if a tank primarily designed for desert warfare could be of any use to Peruvian Army. If it was ever given to SL Army I am not sure how it performed on tropical terrain. Having said that I have heard that the Al-Khalid-1 (improvement over regular Al-Khalid) is now capable of carrying out operations in rocky mountains and urban areas.

To watch M1 Abrahams trials (& failure) in Pakistani desert watch following video @ 4:36
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udIvH6rYKM&feature=PlayList&p=02C570BF2EAB8392&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

 

[SURB]

I don't know if a tank primarily designed for desert warfare could be of any use to Peruvian Armyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udIvH6rYKM&feature=PlayList&p=02C570BF2EAB8392&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49

well they can use them at Peruvian coast include Sechura Desert, the Atacama Desert and the Nazca Plains :smooth,but i think Chuncho in better position to tell what Peruvian Army will do with AL-KHALID.
:crazy don't say they are getting it to use at The Altiplano of the southern Peruvian Andes.

 

[DavidDCM]

Well, some say that the Peruvian tank acquisition program is a direct answer to the Chilean purchase of Leopard 2A4 tanks. If that is true than the theatre of operations would indeed be Southern Peru, i.e. the Altiplano.

 

[Chuncho]

Definetely the purchase of a new MBT by the Peruvian Army was accelarated by the purchase of the Leo 2A4s by Chile, but actually, the program has been in the analysis of the DoD for a couple of years but due to lack of funding was postponed several times. Right now the only war hipotesis that Peru has is with Chile and the hipothetical war theather will be the southern deserts of Peru. (the altiplano/highlands are the zone that borders Bolivia not Chile).

Regards.

 

[Feanor]

Sabre the question is one of economy of scale. An MBT that has seen a couple of hundred produced, and one that is over a thousand, and still running strong, is a whole different story. That's why I'd like to see actual news on a potential deal that would include suggested price, and quantity, before making any judgement calls.

 

[SABRE]

Right now the only war hipotesis that Peru has is with Chile and the hipothetical war theather will be the southern deserts of Peru. (the altiplano/highlands are the zone that borders Bolivia not Chile).

If its desert conditions then MBT-2000 might just be the better choice. The tanks has survived both Pakistani deserts and Middle Eastern successfully.

 

[SABRE]

Sabre the question is one of economy of scale. An MBT that has seen a couple of hundred produced, and one that is over a thousand, and still running strong, is a whole different story. That's why I'd like to see actual news on a potential deal that would include suggested price, and quantity, before making any judgement calls.

Buying something you don't need or buying something that does not fit your requirement is a question of economics. After all economics is about allocating scarce resources in best possible manner and maximize your gains as much as possible. Anyways; you are right, we'll have to wait and watch. Meanwhile there have been no reports here about MBT-2000 being offered to Peru. Even if its China which is selling them to Peru HIT in Pakistan must have the information.

 

[SURB]

Production rate for AL-KHALID in 2004 was estimated by HIT to be 45-60 annually.Round about 300 are in service now.

Army Equipment - Introduction
this one says they are more in number
Haq's Musings: India-Pakistan Military Balance
Believe the one you want.
For those who haven't watch this earlier.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXkL5Z0hbRE&feature=related"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
&
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpf3wXahskk"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]