Marine Nationale (French Navy)

[Spacearrow99]

I think Bulgaria is buying some GoWind

Any customer for FM400?

Bulgaria restarted negotiations with DCNS in July, for the future purchase of 2 Gowinds, probably the Gowind 200.

There's no customer for the FM 400. The FREMM and FM 400 are competing with other designs for the Algerian frigate contract.

 

[harryriedl]

Bulgaria restarted negotiations with DCNS in July, for the future purchase of 2 Gowinds, probably the Gowind 200.

There's no customer for the FM 400. The FREMM and FM 400 are competing with other designs for the Algerian frigate contract.

that doesn't sound like much seance having two competing design from the same company do you have any images of the FM 400

 

[Spacearrow99]

that doesn't sound like much seance having two competing design from the same company do you have any images of the FM 400

Algeria will choose one of the two designs for their frigate tender. The FM 400 design is based on the FREMM alpha model design.

Here are images of the FREMM alpha model.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=107745

Meretmarine also has and article about the FM 400 with images.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=108302

DCNS intended to integrate a single tower on the FREMM. But, DCNS and Thales encountered a technical problem, so they refrained from offering this soultion, a few months before signing of the FREMM contract.

Well, now DCNS has to renegotiate the whole FREMM contact because the price accepted by suppliers was based on the purchase of 17 vessels. So, the MN general staff now has the option of choosing the single tower when they resign the FREMM contract at the end of this year.

 

[Spacearrow99]

The 2009 French Defense Budget will include the following orders.

150 Scalp Naval
2 FREDA, 1 ASW FREMM
the second Barracuda SSN
60 Rafale
1000 AASM

Here a meremarine article confirming the orders and a PDF of the 2009 French Defense Budget.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=108399

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/defense/content/download/129788/1135476/file/PLF 2009 - Budget MINDEF.pdf

 

[Spacearrow99]

Here is a interview with Vice Admiral Philippe Sautter.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=108331

Apparently, the Durance class vessels want be replaced until the next White Paper. They will be replaced in 2016 or 2017. The next tankers would also have mechanical workshops, that would take responabilites of ships like the Jules Vernes and Loire. The Jules Verne and Loire are expensive to run, and they cant keep up with french frigates.

Ordered by the end of 2009
9 ASW FREMM and 2 FREDA
the second Barracuda SSN
200 SCALP Naval (50 apart of the original order)

Unknowns
PA2
JDA replacement
Possible upgrade of La Fayettes
4 AOR replacements

 

[harryriedl]

Here is a interview with Vice Admiral Philippe Sautter.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=108331

Apparently, the Durance class vessels want be replaced until the next White Paper. They will be replaced in 2016 or 2017. The next tankers would also have mechanical workshops, that would take responabilites of ships like the Jules Vernes and Loire. The Jules Verne and Loire are expensive to run, and they cant keep up with french frigates.

Ordered by the end of 2009
9 ASW FREMM and 2 FREDA
the second Barracuda SSN
200 SCALP Naval (50 apart of the original order)

Unknowns
PA2
JDA replacement
Possible upgrade of La Fayettes
4 AOR replacements

Sounds a bit like a JSS concept but instead of sea lift, its has machine workshops instead

 

[kato]

Sounds a bit like a JSS concept but instead of sea lift, its has machine workshops instead

France is leading the JSS concept in some respect - the refitted Durance class AORs are actually primarily flagships for the forward-deployed fleet, e.g. in the Indian Ocean. The workshops currently provided onboard Jules Verne and Loire primarily provide a forward-deployed servicing capability for the same, but are also occasionally used as more general cargo/supply ships when sortieing with flotillas. By using such ships, France does not need to necessarily build up infrastructure in e.g. Reunion or Papeete. This concept has essentially been followed since the mid-80s.

 

[Spacearrow99]

France is leading the JSS concept in some respect - the refitted Durance class AORs are actually primarily flagships for the forward-deployed fleet, e.g. in the Indian Ocean. The workshops currently provided onboard Jules Verne and Loire primarily provide a forward-deployed servicing capability for the same, but are also occasionally used as more general cargo/supply ships when sortieing with flotillas. By using such ships, France does not need to necessarily build up infrastructure in e.g. Reunion or Papeete. This concept has essentially been followed since the mid-80s.

The Loire will be withdrawn from service next year. It also looks like the Jules Verne will be withdrawn from service next year, but a final decision has not been made yet.

 

[harryriedl]

FREMM AVT is dead

he French Navy drop the FREMM Action Vers la Terre (Ground Action) version of the FREMM (9 AVT ships from a total batch of 17 FREMM Frigates).
This version will be replaced by a lighter ship based on the Godwind concept, the OVP (Offshore Patrol Vessel) equiped with 2 ECUME high speed boat for commandos for patrol on french economical oversea zones (Polynesia, Indian Ocean, ...)



the news in french : http://www.meretmarine.com/objets/500/14211.jpg

surprising I thought FREMM AVT was safe and they were going to cut the other models. dose that effect SCALP Naval?

 

[kato]

I thought FREMM AVT was safe and they were going to cut the other models.

Cutting the ASW version would have been extremely unlikely - they need replacements for the Georges Leygues, not the least to protect the strategic group in the Atlantic (SSBNs).

 

[Spacearrow99]

FREMM AVT is dead

he French Navy drop the FREMM Action Vers la Terre (Ground Action) version of the FREMM (9 AVT ships from a total batch of 17 FREMM Frigates).
This version will be replaced by a lighter ship based on the Godwind concept, the OVP (Offshore Patrol Vessel) equiped with 2 ECUME high speed boat for commandos for patrol on french economical oversea zones (Polynesia, Indian Ocean, ...)



the news in french : http://www.meretmarine.com/objets/500/14211.jpg

surprising I thought FREMM AVT was safe and they were going to cut the other models. dose that effect SCALP Naval?

No, decision has been made on replacement of 9 AVT FREMM.

The 9 ASW FREMM will carry Scalp Naval.

 

[harryriedl]

Cutting the ASW version would have been extremely unlikely - they need replacements for the Georges Leygues, not the least to protect the strategic group in the Atlantic (SSBNs).

I thought it was just a reduction of numbers across the board rather than just getting rid of one version so its 2 AAW, 9 ASW and 9 AVT

 

[ASFC]

Nope, its 18 First line Frigates-so 2 Horizon, 9 ASW FREMM, 2 FREDAs and i presume the 5 La Fayette Class Frigates (at least that is what most English based Defence websites seem to imply).

 

[youpii]

A69 corvettes will be stripped off their Exocet missiles and become patrol ships

http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/defense/2008/10/exclusif-les-av.html#more

 

[ASFC]

So what is happening to the P-400's? Are they staying in service doing other roles or are they up for the chop?

 

[harryriedl]

the Marrocaon SIGMA deal http://www.damennaval.com/nl/news.htm?item=3 what effect dose that have on the French plans to build a FREMM for Marroco is it off or they buying both.

 

[kato]

Buying both, last i heard.

The two Floreals replaced by one Sigma 10513 and one FREMM, the Descubierta (and presumably the two old PR-72 corvettes) replaced by two Sigma 9813.

 

[ASFC]

Buying both, last i heard.

The two Floreals replaced by one Sigma 10513 and one FREMM, the Descubierta (and presumably the two old PR-72 corvettes) replaced by two Sigma 9813.

Do the Floreals have problems then in Moroccan service? They are not particularly old.

 

[kato]

I'd presume that the commercial hull doesn't exactly hold on all that long. Also, the Floreals delivered to Morocco were ultra-cheap lowcost units. And of course they lack any kind of air defense or ASW capability, getting more important when considering increased difficulties with Spain or the old difficulties with Algeria. Also, it's not like Morocco can really use the big plus of the Floreal - its freaking huge range.

Besides, the replacement is quite a bit in the future. The FREMM likely won't be delivered before the mid of the next decade (optimistically 2012, i doubt it), the three Sigmas would enter service sequentially, first one not before 2012 (as stated by Damen).
The Descubierta would be 30 years old by then, the two PR-72 corvettes a bit older even. Other patrol units are getting pretty old too, with only partial replacements planned.
In the medium term, they could even keep the Floreals in addition as long-range patrol units, while retreating them from any frontline duty (that they weren't built for anyway).

 

[ASFC]

That makes more sense-I should think given the age of the rest of their fleet the Floreals could hang around as OPVs for a while even if they are replaced as Frigates.