Sea Dayaks and Ibans are the same people. They are chosen on the one hand because they are the strongest branch of all Dayak people by number (600.000) and because, as Chino said, the Malaysian Royal Rangers stem from the earlier Sarawak Rangers, who as well consisted mostly of Iban/Sea Dayaks. This goes back to the mid 19th century when the "White Rajahs of Sarawak" used Iban warparties to fight for the government (They were not supported by British colonial troops, so they had to rely on indigenious warriors to ensure the peace).
Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions
- Thread starter weasel1962
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Oh, I see...
I think you mean Mr Ignorant. I was the one asking the noob questions. They are probably the true indigenous people of Borneo.
Are these the same people holding up severed heads and eating the hearts of people on the streets in Borneo Indonesia's 2001 ethnic cleansing?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1195879.stm
We met a lot of Dayaks during our hiking trip to Sabah & Sarawak. They have the most genuinely friendly smiles. You wouldn't have guessed.
this is not true.
The Iban were infamous and kinda bloodthirsty headhunters in the past, but this habit has ceased (or to put it right, has been forcefully surpressed by the White Rajahs) in the beginning of the 20th century, but from time to time it popped up again (in WW2 the Iban headhunted the Japanese, in the 1960's there were instances were they murdered Southkorean construction workers similar to the recent events from you link). If it were really Iban who killed the Madurese immigrants in Indonesian Borneo or other Dayak people I don't know yet. But in Indonesian Borneo the Iban population is rather thin (only around 14.000 Iban, and they also live only in the immediate vicinity of the Malaysian border).
"Dayak" is a rather generic term for all indigenious, non-muslim people from Borneo, it does not necessarily mean "Iban".
"Dayak" is a rather generic term for all indigenious, non-muslim people from Borneo, it does not necessarily mean "Iban".
In a book I read about the SAS in Borneo, author said there were some instances of their Iban trackers taking Indonesian troopers' heads. The SAS tried very hard to explain this was not acceptable. Can't remember the outcome.
As mentioned earlier, eating the heart was another part of the headhunting ritual. Is this where the term "hearts & minds" come from?
Hehe, yeah that's truly "winning" hearts and minds...
But no, cannibalism was not part of the Iban headhunting custom. If this occured in Indonesia in 2001 it was either another Dayak tribe, or the personal decision of single individuals to do so. Eating hearts (or other human parts) is not based in any pagan Iban headhunting rituals. On the contrary I have several sources that say cannibalism was an absolute taboo in Iban tradition, and punished severly even if it was out of emergency (a defeated war party finding no other food than the bodies of the dead etc.). It was seen as a religious no-go.
But no, cannibalism was not part of the Iban headhunting custom. If this occured in Indonesia in 2001 it was either another Dayak tribe, or the personal decision of single individuals to do so. Eating hearts (or other human parts) is not based in any pagan Iban headhunting rituals. On the contrary I have several sources that say cannibalism was an absolute taboo in Iban tradition, and punished severly even if it was out of emergency (a defeated war party finding no other food than the bodies of the dead etc.). It was seen as a religious no-go.
Mr Ignorant
New Member
DCM,
It's actually Sea Dayak. That's the Official term for all Ibans. The term Iban itself is recent and another misnomer given by the Dayak Kayans (another branch) to the Sea Dayaks when they encountered them in the 19th century. The Kayan meaning for "Iban" translates as "Invader" in their language. Brooke's Officials only ever called these Dayak migrants from the Kalimantan provinces, Sea Dayaks and the term is kept in 1963, when it was written in the Constitution. Both terms are inter-changeable.
Anyway, enough of basic anthropology. It does not have any relevance to what took place in Kalbar; Kaltim or Kalsel in Indonesia. That was an issue of Law and Order.
What we do know is that the RRD is Sarawakian in Origin, and this is borne out by it's use of Iban motifs, cultural rituals and language. Likewise the GOF uses the Iban motif, recognising the value of past and present Iban GOF personnel serving and having served in it's ranks.
Hence, unique to the MAF and the Police GOF, the emphasis on Esprit de Corp, bravery and Skill.
It's actually Sea Dayak. That's the Official term for all Ibans. The term Iban itself is recent and another misnomer given by the Dayak Kayans (another branch) to the Sea Dayaks when they encountered them in the 19th century. The Kayan meaning for "Iban" translates as "Invader" in their language. Brooke's Officials only ever called these Dayak migrants from the Kalimantan provinces, Sea Dayaks and the term is kept in 1963, when it was written in the Constitution. Both terms are inter-changeable.
Anyway, enough of basic anthropology. It does not have any relevance to what took place in Kalbar; Kaltim or Kalsel in Indonesia. That was an issue of Law and Order.
What we do know is that the RRD is Sarawakian in Origin, and this is borne out by it's use of Iban motifs, cultural rituals and language. Likewise the GOF uses the Iban motif, recognising the value of past and present Iban GOF personnel serving and having served in it's ranks.
Hence, unique to the MAF and the Police GOF, the emphasis on Esprit de Corp, bravery and Skill.
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Mr Ignorant
New Member
Goodness me. Considering much of the terrain in Malaysia, tracking is a valuable skillset. Rural boys brought up in distant farms and villages, would have picked up and amassed these simple skills. That is how, through rural Schools, and the Education system, these boys are identified, picked and selected for a career in the services.
Exactly what differences are you looking for each branch of the Dayak?
No worries, I will just live with the simpler definition of Dayaks being the indigenous peoples of Borneo.
BTW, what is the combat effectiveness of these Dayak RRD untis? And are they formed along the lines of conventional infantry battalions etc? Do they take well to regiment life etc?
I can't remember what the SAS said of their combat skills in that book.
Yes, I know, that's what I've written
I've looked it up, the regions were violence erupted was not in Iban region. Iban do not live so far down in the south of Borneo.
Yes, the RRD units are organized in the same way as RAMD (Malay) units. From the 9 RRD battalions there are 7 Light Infantry, 1 Para and 1 Mechanized Infantry. The RRD is as effective as the Malay Units and sports the same professionalism. They recruit from Sea Dayak and other Dayak people, but they should not be regarded as auxiliary troops or trackers or so, they are full-fledged combat units and are capable to do the same stuff as any Malay unit.Chino said:
Just went to a small museum over the weekend that honours the hero of WW2 Malay hero of Singapore at Bukit Chandu. Housed in a old colonial bungalow on a hill with a distant sea view, the museum is not really worth a visit but the surroundings are gorgeous.
Lt Adnan was a Malay Regiment officer from Selangor or something but based in Singapore where he lost his life after heroic actions against Japs.
So if the current day MAF is made of people like Lt Adnan, they should still be a force to be reckoned with.
Lt Adnan was a Malay Regiment officer from Selangor or something but based in Singapore where he lost his life after heroic actions against Japs.
So if the current day MAF is made of people like Lt Adnan, they should still be a force to be reckoned with.
i do remember this one story, which i got from a doco about the communist insurgency its in mph, cant remember if it was the ibans, but some gov. forces used to chop off the heads of the communists and brought them back to hq to be identified. Although it sounds barbaric. The guy in the doco explained, that they had to track deep into the jungle sometimes weeks in. So the most practical and least logistical nightmare, would have been cutting their heads and bringing them back... which is actually in a brutal sence quite logical, i would not want to track back to HQ carrying a dead communist for weeks. and also at that time urm cameras were a bit of an issue esp bringing it and ur gear into the jungle.
That might be a problem to achieve. Currently even the majority race in RRD are Malays due to insufficient recruits from other races. However in the RRD segment of Penggempur documentary a few years back, the Director of RRD stated that he would like to see another RRD batalion in East Malaysia, probably in Sabah. No mentioned whether it would be a new batalion or just moving one from the Peninsular, or whether there is a timeline on this.
weasel1962
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Mr Ignorant
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That's another issue. Traditionally, the Dayak would move to Combat Battalions, but now, their number is more thinly spread in amongst Commandos, Engineers, Artillery, logistics and support. The issue nowadays is simple, not every Malay, Dayak, Indian or Chinese would make an excellent Soldier, let alone Warrior. Some are in the service for other reasons and that appears to be sufficient. And that was a frank opinion in 1990.
What about 2008?? There is no incentive to apply for a place in the MAF. The traditional catchment areas continues to produce the quality, but that quality recruit is more interested in more lucrative employment elsewhere. It's simply economics versus a weak martial culture now.
usually they will bring the bodies back for positive identifications by military and police intelligence
barring that, the heads (if the travel time is too long, and the bodies are rotting too badly)
-aneep-
weasel1962
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