malaysia n singapore arms race

[paskal]

it looks to me that malaysian n singapore is on an armed race!

for examaple:[1]malaysia [2]singapore

48x pt-91 m[upgraded version] 66x ex leopard tank

18x sukhoi mkm[much2 better version] 12x f-15 sg [upgraded version]

36x astros [juz arrive the other x18] planning to buy!!



im juz a 15 year old kid...so pls give me ur oppinion!!
for all singaporeans pls dont be mad k...im juz asking for oppinion k

 

[graham_chan]

For my opinion, Singapore will surely win the arms race against Malaysia.
1) Singapore military budget is higher than Malaysia.
2) Leopard 2A4 purchased by Singapore is well known as one of the best in the world.
3) F-15 SG avionics is far more advanced than the Su-30 MKM.
4) Singapore defence industries is also far more advanced & modern in terms of RND & research.

 

[paskal]

For my opinion, Singapore will surely win the arms race against Malaysia.
1) Singapore military budget is higher than Malaysia.
2) Leopard 2A4 purchased by Singapore is well known as one of the best in the world.
3) F-15 SG avionics is far more advanced than the Su-30 MKM.
4) Singapore defence industries is also far more advanced & modern in terms of RND & research.

all the other parts i agree but i disagree the part where u say f-15 sg is better tahn the su-30 mkm!

malaysia bought avionocs from france and modified it throughly till the price of 1 sukhois became 50 m~

besides that they used the modified version of india sukhois that whooped america f-15 9-1 in simulation trainig[n thatz juz india!]

 

[Incognito129]

Singapore in an arms race? Its going to be a very very short race.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I would say regionally, its an arms race.

Malaysia, and Singapore have had plenty of aquisitions. Indonesia just signed a $13 billion deal with russia for subs and planes and ships and tanks. Australia is getting two LHD (with carrier potential) and 4 destroyers, possibly over 100 new aircraft, C17's, personel transport, and various upgrades. Taiwan is also upgrading and spending.

Singapore is generally superior to Malaysia. But Australia is more capable than any of them (combined?) and still has many aquisitions to go (new subs, more ships, more aircraft, more helicopters, more more more). But there are plenty of security pacts between the nations that a conflict between then is extremely unlikely.

However the increasing influence of the Chinese has been highlighted by the US. I don't think it is as much as a race between the S.E asian countries as it is a general buildup.

 

[paskal]

I would say regionally, its an arms race.

Malaysia, and Singapore have had plenty of aquisitions. Indonesia just signed a $13 billion deal with russia for subs and planes and ships and tanks. Australia is getting two LHD (with carrier potential) and 4 destroyers, possibly over 100 new aircraft, C17's, personel transport, and various upgrades. Taiwan is also upgrading and spending.

Singapore is generally superior to Malaysia. But Australia is more capable than any of them (combined?) and still has many aquisitions to go (new subs, more ships, more aircraft, more helicopters, more more more). But there are plenty of security pacts between the nations that a conflict between then is extremely unlikely.

However the increasing influence of the Chinese has been highlighted by the US. I don't think it is as much as a race between the S.E asian countries as it is a general buildup.

yeah i agree with u but why is singapore disallowing malaysia to buy amraam missles from the us! there r not even allowing malaysia to buy cruise missle from the us! Admin. You have posted this gem 3 times so far, you don't need to inject it into every post you participate in.

abou the indonesiandeal wit russia does it reach 13 billion us dollars?

 

[Ramjetmissile]

I would like to stress that this thread is about "malaysian n singapore is on an armed race".anyway if there's a comparison i would say that both nations are equally capable.
(Airforce)

Aussie Airforce
F/A-18E/F
WedgeTail Awacs
Boeing 707
Orion AP-3C

RSAF
F-15SG
F-16C/D Blk 50/52
F-5 Tiger II
E2C Awacs / G550 Palcon CAEW
Stratotanker KC - 135R
Fokker 50 Maritime

SG has no right to interfere with arm procurement of any nations.
it has always been this way,arms procured by malaysia will usually be ruled out for procurement by SG vices versus

SU-30MKM vs F-15SG - The existence of AESA tells the whole story
i have no doubt SU-30 could out fight the F-15s but shouldnt there be some evidence to your claim of 9 : 1 Kill ratio

 

[Red]

Singapore has more than 66 Leo 2s(66 + 30 spares + 36 + ? spares) and the initial 12 F-15Sgs are an initial batch of purchase. Singapore spends about 7 billion USD this year on defence versus 1-2 billion USD by Malaysia.

The F-15SG and F-15K are robust and capable fighters and would own and cream the Sukhois in the hands of a capable pilot. It is all about systems and tactics. Unfortunately, there has not been a serious encounter between the two. The Indian exercise is not an indication about the two plane`s capabilities. It is an exercise to test the Sukhoi`s systems. It was never a plane versus plane encounter to see which plane is better. At any rate, the RSAF is at least 4.5 times larger than the MAF and with more capable jets.

As mentioned by the poster, he is a 15 year old. Many of his assertions are erroneous and unsubstantiated. I think this thread would descend into a petty and pointless nationalistic debate. I hope this forum is spared from such drivel.

 

[KiwiRob]

I would say regionally, its an arms race.

Malaysia, and Singapore have had plenty of aquisitions. Indonesia just signed a $13 billion deal with russia for subs and planes and ships and tanks. Australia is getting two LHD (with carrier potential) and 4 destroyers, possibly over 100 new aircraft, C17's, personel transport, and various upgrades. Taiwan is also upgrading and spending.

Australia are only getting 3 destroyers, the forth has yet to be confirmed.

 

[caksz]

I would say regionally, its an arms race.

Malaysia, and Singapore have had plenty of aquisitions. Indonesia just signed a $13 billion deal with russia for subs and planes and ships and tanks. Australia is getting two LHD (with carrier potential) and 4 destroyers, possibly over 100 new aircraft, C17's, personel transport, and various upgrades. Taiwan is also upgrading and spending.

Singapore is generally superior to Malaysia. But Australia is more capable than any of them (combined?) and still has many aquisitions to go (new subs, more ships, more aircraft, more helicopters, more more more). But there are plenty of security pacts between the nations that a conflict between then is extremely unlikely.

However the increasing influence of the Chinese has been highlighted by the US. I don't think it is as much as a race between the S.E asian countries as it is a general buildup.

I thought the indonesian deal is only worth 1 billion of credit , Singapore is superior against Malaysia is acceptable but Australia more capable than any of them combined is kinda overrate. Ironicly so called arms race , those three countries had a defence pact

 

[LazerLordz]

I feel that this arms build-up is a reaction to something that might happen/forecasted somewhere down the line in the next 5-10 years, given that procurement and integration, with subsequent maturity of the personnel operating these equipment coming on line in the same period.

Question is, there has to be something prompting the richer nations of SEA and Australia to re-org their orbat at a fairly rapid rate today.

 

[Red]

I thought the indonesian deal is only worth 1 billion of credit , Singapore is superior against Malaysia is acceptable but Australia more capable than any of them combined is kinda overrate. Ironicly so called arms race , those three countries had a defence pact

It was 1 billion credit line from russia for armaments. If I can recall, the rest of the deal is for gas and oil.

Australia is more capable in the expeditionary department in the sense due to her larger navy. She is able to send a small-moderate force of troops abroad. But certainly not in the terms of the US navy. Apart from Singapore, the other SEA nations have little capability in this respect. Hence, the risk of an invasion from SEA is very low. Similarly, the Aussies could not possibly invade any of these countries with a small number of troops or a small army.

Airforce-wise, I think the RSAF and the RAAF are more or less on a level playing field. The other SEA nations are very far behind; including Malaysia. Thailand is respectably better than Malaysia. But she needs newer planes.

The individual armies of these countries are much larger than the one Australia has currently. But that`s because of the threat level Australia faces. For example, Singapore has a huge amount of modern 155m artillery systems; apart from other other modern systems. But that`s because of the threats and scenarios we face and strategies we have evolved to combat these threats. It`s all relative. Many things play a part; geography, money, new threats, alliances, influence, etc when a country considers arming herself. Just look at Israel`s tank force vis-a-vis her population. It`s there because the country needs it or deems it to be so.

Hence, it is pointless to have country versus country debates.

 

[paskal]

............

I would like to stress that this thread is about "malaysian n singapore is on an armed race".anyway if there's a comparison i would say that both nations are equally capable.
(Airforce)

Aussie Airforce
F/A-18E/F
WedgeTail Awacs
Boeing 707
Orion AP-3C

RSAF
F-15SG
F-16C/D Blk 50/52
F-5 Tiger II
E2C Awacs / G550 Palcon CAEW
Stratotanker KC - 135R
Fokker 50 Maritime

SG has no right to interfere with arm procurement of any nations.
it has always been this way,arms procured by malaysia will usually be ruled out for procurement by SG vices versus

SU-30MKM vs F-15SG - The existence of AESA tells the whole story
i have no doubt SU-30 could out fight the F-15s but shouldnt there be some evidence to your claim of 9 : 1 Kill ratio

oh ok sorry!
if you wanna see just type at google america testing the new indian made sukhoi-30 mki,
by the way the want in the su-30 is also an american so goes with the f-15......
if you want solid prove just go at the mig and sukhois website

 

[paskal]

Singapore has more than 66 Leo 2s(66 + 30 spares + 36 + ? spares) and the initial 12 F-15Sgs are an initial batch of purchase. Singapore spends about 7 billion USD this year on defence versus 1-2 billion USD by Malaysia.

The F-15SG and F-15K are robust and capable fighters and would own and cream the Sukhois in the hands of a capable pilot. It is all about systems and tactics. Unfortunately, there has not been a serious encounter between the two. The Indian exercise is not an indication about the two plane`s capabilities. It is an exercise to test the Sukhoi`s systems. It was never a plane versus plane encounter to see which plane is better. At any rate, the RSAF is at least 4.5 times larger than the MAF and with more capable jets.

As mentioned by the poster, he is a 15 year old. Many of his assertions are erroneous and unsubstantiated. I think this thread would descend into a petty and pointless nationalistic debate. I hope this forum is spared from such drivel.

hahaha 15 year old kid ha....
check it out if you dont believe:nutkick
you should now before i write, i will see first ok!
i dont now why i cant paste the website?
ill write it then,
go to the flymig website then then well see whose the 15 year old k!

 

[storywolf]

yeah i agree with u but why is singapore disallowing malaysia to buy amraam missles from the us! there r not even allowing malaysia to buy cruise missle from the us! Admin. You have posted this gem 3 times so far, you don't need to inject it into every post you participate in.

abou the indonesiandeal wit russia does it reach 13 billion us dollars?

Amraam missile malaysia want to buy but you say cannot - Hello Amraam missile if make and sold by US - if they do not trust you with the technology ... great you go blame singapore ... !!! why you do not blame yourself !!!

Tomorrow your chicken do not lay eggs also blame singapore !!!

Please read up on facts first before you speak ... it is because US policy... they do not want to start an arm race, that why they do not want to be the 1st to introduce amraam to the region - that same restriction applys to singapore also !!! Till malaysia brought from russia, and introduce amraam to the region, thus ending the US policy and allowing Singapore to buy it.

 

[storywolf]

oh ok sorry!
if you wanna see just type at google america testing the new indian made sukhoi-30 mki,
by the way the want in the su-30 is also an american so goes with the f-15......
if you want solid prove just go at the mig and sukhois website

Till now - all evident of 9:1 kill is your words only - Please prove it - stated the link of the website .

Please do not give us tom or dick website .... that is without solid evidence - as it seem to be culture or habit you have using heard say information without facts.nfloorl:

 

[Todjaeger]

hahaha 15 year old kid ha....
check it out if you dont believe:nutkick
you should now before i write, i will see first ok!
i dont now why i cant paste the website?
ill write it then,
go to the flymig website then then well see whose the 15 year old k!

I believe Red was referring to your comment which I have quoted below:

im juz a 15 year old kid...so pls give me ur oppinion!!
for all singaporeans pls dont be mad k...im juz asking for oppinion

Also, what is the point of this thread? An arms race indicates that the two countries are in competition in terms of strength of forces, I do not see that occurring here, for the following reasons.

1. Both countries are members of the FPDA and as such participate together on joint training exercises regularly. If one is looking at a potential adversary, one does not train with them.

2. Given the relative balance of forces, I believe most would consider one nation to have a more modern and capable force than the other already. An arms race occurs when two (or more) countries of near parity attempt to surpass the other. If there is no parity between the forces, then an arms race cannot occur.

3. Another indicator is the amount of money spent on the military/defence force. Malaysia spends about 2% of GDP (US$132 bil), while Singapore spends around 4.9-5% of GDP (US$122 bil) which works out to Malaysia having a defence budget of half that of Singapore.

Again I have to repeat, what is the point of this thread? What evidence is there to support claims of an "arms race" between Singapore and Malaysia? I see evidence of replacement or expansion of capabilities throughout the region, but nothing that could credibly be called an arms race.

-Cheers

 

[caksz]

Amraam missile malaysia want to buy but you say cannot - Hello Amraam missile if make and sold by US - if they do not trust you with the technology ... great you go blame singapore ... !!! why you do not blame yourself !!!

Tomorrow your chicken do not lay eggs also blame singapore !!!

Please read up on facts first before you speak ... it is because US policy... they do not want to start an arm race, that why they do not want to be the 1st to introduce amraam to the region - that same restriction applys to singapore also !!! Till malaysia brought from russia, and introduce amraam to the region, thus ending the US policy and allowing Singapore to buy it.

Those russian R-77 just a rumour , If you buy a aircraft capable to do bvr doesn't mean the owner has it , R-77 is only introduced after the su deals.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Uh, just wanted to highlight that Malaysia has the Amraam. Would be quite ridiculous for Singapore to lobby for a restriction since in any war between the 2 entities, the US could just release its codes to the one it favours (as the French did for the Exocet to the Brits against the Argies).

Its a strange kind of arms race when just last month, the Malaysian defence minister came out and publicly stated that Malaysian defence acquisitions are not in response to any specific country's acquisition and is subject solely to Malaysia's ability to purchase and its own requirements.

The fact that Singapore has a lot more firepower means absolutely zilch to Malaysia since Singapore at no time is interested or has any reason in waging war with Malaysia. If it did, the SAF could have done so over the past 20 years or so.

Even on the issue of water, Singapore is on the way to self-sufficiency and that removes the biggest bugbear between the 2 countries. Its actually quite funny because some Malaysians still have the impression that what Malaysia does has huge significance on Singapore defence policy when the reverse policy direction has been the reality.

In the same vein, what Singapore does in terms of defence acquisition could have very little impact on Malaysian policy as well. An effective Singapore defence force actually reduces the threat matrix because its neighbours are not tempted to play the military card. No Government seriously expects Singapore to go on a territorial expansion plan. It could never succeed.

Some Malaysians think that Singapore could actually achieve self sufficiency by conquering eg Johore. But that's ridiculous because the cost of invading a sovereign nation is by far more expensive than even paying the ridiculous Rm4 per litre of water price that Mahathir previously suggested.

In fact, who are the people who would benefit from such thoughts of war or arms races? They are probably the islamic radicals who would thrive on chaos in either country. Reality is that a strong Malaysia benefits its neighbours and its about time the rest of Malaysia started thinking how it can leverage from a strong Singapore instead of what other ways Malaysia can get back at Singapore.

 

[Red]

Uh, just wanted to highlight that Malaysia has the Amraam. Would be quite ridiculous for Singapore to lobby for a restriction since in any war between the 2 entities, the US could just release its codes to the one it favours (as the French did for the Exocet to the Brits against the Argies).

- Is this a presumption on your part because certainly it has never been reported that Malaysia purchased the Amraams. In fact, I recalled reading a report stating that Malaysia refused Amraams. Can you provide a link, etc? thanks

- Singapore`s offensive posture is purely defensive. Fighting on the island could incur a lot of damage to our physical infrastructure; Singapore`s lifeblood. Given the size of our population at 4.5 million, we could ill afford maniacal dreams of territorial expansion. We would only seek to absorb territories to pre-empt an invasion or create buffer zones ala Israel though we can cerainly hold on to the territories for a long time. But it would be costly. At any rate, this would only come about due to an imminent invasion or threat. So long as there is none coming from her immediate neighbours, the Singapore military machine stays at home. The way we all like it and I like it.