M777

P

playtime

New Member
Might be a dumb question.
If the weight diff is caused by the use of titanium in M777... isnt it an option to just make a Pegasus in titanium?

Picture a bombshell straddling the barrel cooing....:
"Pegasus titanium edition... for customers who want only the best money can buy."
 
C

Chino

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Aussie Digger said:
Towed guns have gun tractors to assist as well. They don't have "manhandling" and helos as their only mobility options...

The guns will never be too far away from their tractors (Unimogs are currently used by Aus Army for this purpose) and it's entirely possible (and probable) that the "gun tractor" selected for the M777 or the Pegasus in the unlikely event it is chosen, will be CH-47 transportable too.http://www.defense-update.com/products/p/portee.htm
Click to expand...
With heliborne ops in particular - which is where the advantage of having a lightweight howitzer - having to also lift a gun tractor in addition to the gun can't be very ideal, logistically?

Of course, I may be over-rating the performance of the APU of the Pegasus... Maybe it moves at crawl speed or cannot handle inclines or very poor cross-country performance etc.
 
C

cm07

New Member
Either way, LW howitzers need to bring their ammo wherever they go, heli or truck, it's is still limited by the carrier.

I think i understand now the reason why the Pegasus was made the way it is for the SAF. Since a chinook is the way to go for carrying sufficient ammo and other cargo, might as well add 1 ton to the gun to save titanium cost and the apu for a little move around.
 
W

winnyfield

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
M777 and Supacat Portee anyone?
Click to expand...
I think a Bushmaster variant or those FMTVs might get the job. Fleet rationalisation is DoD's buzzword.

Read (last page): http://www.adbr.com.au/download/Features Articles/V26N6_Land17.pdf

I think most people have already referred to it.

The M777 has been tested with a quad-bike ATV, as a repositioning vehicle. (If a quad-bike can move the M777 around, a couple of crew members could probably do it manually) The M777 does appear to be very compact.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
winnyfield said:
I think a Bushmaster variant or those FMTVs might get the job. Fleet rationalisation is DoD's buzzword.

Read (last page): http://www.adbr.com.au/download/Features Articles/V26N6_Land17.pdf

I think most people have already referred to it.

The M777 has been tested with a quad-bike ATV, as a repositioning vehicle. (If a quad-bike can move the M777 around, a couple of crew members could probably do it manually) The M777 does appear to be very compact.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the guns CAN be manhandled, but they are heavier than L118 105mm guns (they are lightweight only when compared to existing towed 155mm howitzers) and thuis won't be manhandled very far. 10's or hundreds of meters at best I would suggest.

The M-777's will have a gun tractor because:

A) The guns need to be moved and helos aren't always available.

B) The crew needs to be moved and helos aren't always available.

C) The ammunition needs are significant, need to be moved and helos aren't always available.

I would suggest the Unimog replacement due under Project Overlander (LAND 121) the US FMTV Medium trucks are the most likely vehicle, but I'm not sure if it's "cut and dried" just yet.

Afterall, as pointed out, the Supacat HAS already been selected for ADF service...
 
R

riksavage

Banned Member
Going back to my earlier comment, I can't see the Australians selecting a towing / ammunition vehicle which is not armoured (ball ammo at least) or designed to protect the crew against mine blast. Lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan have clealry shown that soft-skinned vehicles are too vulnerable even when confined to the logistics role. The Bushmaster would be ideal.

The Supacat is an ideal gun platform for SF conductiong long range patrols in open country, but it's less suitable for towing artillery in an high threat IED/VBIED environment (crew area placed right above front wheels, no 'V' shapped hull), plus it can only be fitted with limited armour upgrades (note UK varients now deployed in Afghanistan).
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
riksavage said:
Going back to my earlier comment, I can't see the Australians selecting a towing / ammunition vehicle which is not armoured (ball ammo at least) or designed to protect the crew against mine blast. Lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan have clealry shown that soft-skinned vehicles are too vulnerable even when confined to the logistics role. The Bushmaster would be ideal.

The Supacat is an ideal gun platform for SF conductiong long range patrols in open country, but it's less suitable for towing artillery in an high threat IED/VBIED environment (crew area placed right above front wheels, no 'V' shapped hull), plus it can only be fitted with limited armour upgrades (note UK varients now deployed in Afghanistan).
Click to expand...
Funny. The Unimog is the current vehicle used as a gun tractor for our towed guns and the FMTV family of vehicles is it's chosen replacement within wider Army...

At best the FMTV will be fitted with a "SEK" (Survivability Enhancement Kit) which will improve survivability against small calibre projectiles, shell fragments and limited IED protection.

I don't see a dedicated "V" shaped hull under the FMTV trucks either...
 
C

Chino

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Aussie Digger said:
The M-777's will have a gun tractor because:

A) The guns need to be moved and helos aren't always available.

B) The crew needs to be moved and helos aren't always available.

C) The ammunition needs are significant, need to be moved and helos aren't always available.
Click to expand...
Good points.

I often wondered about the PR video about the Pegasus where the gun gets dropped off by helo and drives on its merry way to somewhere else to shoot. What about the ammo? Can the Pegasus carry its own ammo load?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top