Well, the Rumsfeld plan is to use the Small special forces supported by the tanks and air power as spearhead over the Joint Chief plan to use an overwhelming military power. The grunts that i saw mainly serve as a security detail to installations and fire bases behind the line. I think rumsfeld is right. if they use large forces, the cost of the entire operation and the stabilization would cripple the US economy.
M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army
- Thread starter attackistan
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Fascist Fitz
New Member
how anybody could want to lug around that overly heavy OICW is beyond me!!!!
sure it has space age capabilities and all the rest, but the thing is just too damned heavy...thus i'm going to put in a prediction
the OICW may well be introduced, but only in the urban theatre, the longer range patrols etc will stick to the M4, which has proved itself to be a very capable weapon, esp with the grenade attachment and optical sights...plus, it's about 1/2 as heavy, which certainly comes into my thinking when i'm trundling around with a 50 kg pack on my back!!
sure it has space age capabilities and all the rest, but the thing is just too damned heavy...thus i'm going to put in a prediction
the OICW may well be introduced, but only in the urban theatre, the longer range patrols etc will stick to the M4, which has proved itself to be a very capable weapon, esp with the grenade attachment and optical sights...plus, it's about 1/2 as heavy, which certainly comes into my thinking when i'm trundling around with a 50 kg pack on my back!!
Fascist Fitz said:
You're quite right to a certain extent about sticking to the M4s I think...The US Army only intends a limited deployment of around 4 OICWs for every 9-man sqaud.
Nevertheless, frequent changing of individual weapons, as in your vision, depending on combat enviornment would cause major logistical problems and other frictions within a fighting force. Best to avoid, I reckon.
The OICW is aspiring to weigh in the region of 14 pounds after development which I believe is actually comparable to the M4s/M16s loaded up on extra features in today's Army. Grenadier-wise the OICW's 20mm projectiles are also actually quite lighter than the 40mm M203 rounds currently in use...
You're quite right to a certain extent about sticking to the M4s I think...The US Army only intends a limited deployment of around 4 OICWs for every 9-man sqaud.
Nevertheless, frequent changing of individual weapons, as in your vision, depending on combat enviornment would cause major logistical problems and other frictions within a fighting force. Best to avoid, I reckon.
I was under the impression that they trialled some of these in Iraq recently...
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Aussie Digger
Guest
Well, it looks very awkward to me. I used an M16/M203 rifle occasionally (when playing "enemy") during my service and I always preferred an F88 rifle (Styer) or a Minimi to these. I never used the new F88/M203 combination the ADF has in service now, but they still look cumbersome (if somewhat gucci...) to me. I know Australia is planning to acquire something like this rifle in their "Land Warrior" project. I just hope they consult the infantry when they decide on the rifle instead of just the DSTO...
A-Dig, I was at the Land Warfare Conference in Sydney a while ago and the replacement Steyr was on display. Its like a big fat Steyr with a Metalstorm 40mm grenade launcher on it.
They had another version which was not a Bullpup and looked very much like a fattened H&K. Same deal, Metalstorm 40mm launcher on it.
It was a pretty well balanced gun, didn't feel strange at all when you picked it up and turned around etc...
DSTO have had a lot of troop input into the design.
They had another version which was not a Bullpup and looked very much like a fattened H&K. Same deal, Metalstorm 40mm launcher on it.
It was a pretty well balanced gun, didn't feel strange at all when you picked it up and turned around etc...
DSTO have had a lot of troop input into the design.
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Aussie Digger
Guest
That's good to hear. I have seen pics of that rifle I believe. I still have some concerns about it though. Even the photo of the OICW causes some concern. Look how big an awkward it looks when the soldier is standing and firing it. Now imagine crawling through the bush or through the rubble etc of a demolished urban setting and carrying and attempting to employ this behemoth? I'm all for improved personal firepower and better optics etc on your rifle, but it has to be foremost in the minds of the designer, that all that capability has to be able to employed in every combat situation, otherwise it's a liability. The scope for instance on the OICW is probably a design marvel, but it seems (from a mere perusal of photographs) that it has very limited abilities for the soldiers employing such a weapon to make full use of their natural vision. It's all very well and at time useful for a telescopic scope to be mounted on the rifle, but the tendency then is to use the scope to the exclusion of your normal eye sight. One's field of view is considerably excluded when looking through a scope and this can have devasting consequences on the battlefield. Most comptent soldiers I knew fired their steyrs with both eyes open, allowing for the best of both worlds. It takes some getting used too, but it's worth it in my opinion. I just hope that any futuristic rifle allows for this. Cheers.
I saw a drop down scope on a US single bolt, which always appealed to ne, it gave the user multiple choice, problem was cartridge ejection on some rifles, so it wasn't a "one model fits all" concept. I actually don't like bullpups that much, in fact I prefer shooting something like the SLR. If you hit something it doesn't get up. The only time I ever shot with both eyes open was many moons ago on my families cattle station. one part of the fence line was a river which was frequented by crocs. You always had BOTH eyes open..Aussie Digger said:
I've seen a croc burst a river bank and take a baby water buffalo once. All over within about 10 seconds. That kind of stuff makes you sleep with both eyes open..... :eek
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Aussie Digger
Guest
You pretty much learn to shoot with your eyes open the first time you live fire in a sneaker lane too... It's all well and good hitting the target right in front of you, nice and cleanly and then admiring your shot through the scope, but it's when the DS yells, STOP STOP STOP and indicates the OTHER target besides the one you shot so nicely that reality hits you... Live Crocs around the place would cause much the same thing I should think...