Kiwi Reactions

[Supe]

Interestingly enough a few of us have wargamed a theoretical against a French Strike Force (incl N Carrier) launching a raid from New Caledonia ( the only close logistical point)

In every scenario the French got a hiding.

Is there a source for this. I'd be interested in reading more. The French are upgrading their Amphibious assets and have a sizeable Navy which if memory serves is now the largest in the E.U, thanks to RN downsizing. The French do have the ability to project power. I'm not aware of their logistical capabilities....but if New Caledonia was their launching pad, then they could pre-position large stocks of consumables. Aus/NZ Intelligence in New Caledonia would be key here.

What were the parameters of the war game? Strike/Invasion? Did it factor in French subs which have a numerical advantage over Aus....

 

[Stryker001]

Any big country like germany,france,uk,us,china and countried that hav a big naval force and large airforce could easily take over

In this hypothetical attack you speak of, other than our allies who would not stand by to allow this to happen as one of our friends from Singapore pointed out. I am sure that there are other measures that are available to make such a hypothetical invasion a TOTALLY non viable option. If you are talking about gaining property that is.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Is there a source for this. I'd be interested in reading more. The French are upgrading their Amphibious assets and have a sizeable Navy which if memory serves is now the largest in the E.U, thanks to RN downsizing. The French do have the ability to project power. I'm not aware of their logistical capabilities....but if New Caledonia was their launching pad, then they could pre-position large stocks of consumables. Aus/NZ Intelligence in New Caledonia would be key here.

What were the parameters of the war game? Strike/Invasion? Did it factor in French subs which have a numerical advantage over Aus....

Nothing publicly available as it was an internal think tank and very unofficial - although everyone does similar exercises. The US used to plan around invading the UK (assuming that the Soviets made it to the channel and then slapped the UK so as to get hold of the North Sea Oil Rigs)

fundamental parameters were:

3 month lead up (progressive decay in relationship)
no allied intervention
no nukes
no overflights permitted for french aircraft by regional countries (FPDA issues etc...) - hence the necessity to have the French achieve local air by bringing in the Carrier and support group.

The exercise in French terms would be a disaster due to the demon of logistics, tempo, persistence, projection etc...

scenarios revolved around aggressive sub use and the heavy use of specforces to sabotage french assets in NC, and attacking their wagon trains.

The French nuke subs are only an advantage in real terms for long range strike. We also know that in some areas the Collins have some tactical advantages over a nuke.

To undertake an intercontinental expeditionary event is not a trivial exercise, and eventually you have to get boots on ground and then sieze and hold. The numbers required to achieve that and neutralise all the critical tactical points in a country the size of australia at the same time really makes it an exercise in tactical futility.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

Germany:
Type 124 destroyers
Displacement: 5,960 tons full load
Dimensions: 143 x 17.2 x 7 meters meters (469 x 56 x 22.4 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 cruise diesels, 19,848 bhp, 1 LM2500 boost
gas turbine, 32,500 shp, 29 knots
Crew: 225 + 14 flag
Aviation: helicopter deck and hangar for 2 Lynx helos
Radar: APAR 3-D multifunction
Sonar: DSQS-21B
EW: FL-1800S II intercept, chaff
Armament: 32 cell VLS (24 SM-2MR and 32 ESSM), 8 Harpoon SSM, 2 21-cell
RAM launchers, 76 mm OTO DP, 2 triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes, 2 20 mm
New AAW ships to replace the Lutjens class.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
[F219 Sachsen 12/2003 trials]
[F220 Hamburg 12/2004 building]
[F221 Hessen 12/2005 building]

Lutjens (CF Adams) class (Type 103B) air defense destroyers
Displacement: 4,720 tons full load
Dimensions: 134.4 x 14.4 x 4.5 meters (441 x 47 x 15 feet)
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 2 boilers, 2 shafts, 70,000 shp, 30 knots
Crew: 340
Radar: SPS-40 2-D air search, SPS-52 3-D air search, SPQ-9
Sonar: DSQS-21B hull
Fire Control: 2 SPG-51C missile control, 1 SPG-60 gun control
EW: FL-1800 SII intercept/jammer, 2 SRBOC
Armament: 1 Mk13 launcher (40 SM-1MR/Harpoon missiles), 1 8 cell
ASROC launcher, 2 5/54 DP, 2 21 cell RAM, 2 triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes,
2 20mm
Variants of the US CF Adams class DDG, US built for export.
Have suffered severe machinery problems and are overdue for
replacement. One unit discarded.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
D185 Lutjens 1969 Kiel
D186 Molders 1969 Kiel

Brandenburg class (Type 123) frigates
Displacement: 4,490 tons full load
Dimensions: 138.9 x 16.7 x 6.3 meters (455.5 x 57 x 20.5 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts: 2 cruise diesels, 11,400 shp, 18 knots, plus
2 LM2500 boost turbines, 51,680 shp, 29 knots
Crew: 219
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 2 Lynx helicopters
Radar: 1 LW-08 air search, 1 SMART-S air/surface search
Sonar: DSQS-23BZ hull
Fire Control: 2 STIR-18 missile control
EW: FL-1800 SII intercept/jammer, 2 decoy RL
Armament: 4 MM38 Exocet SSM, VLS for 16 Sea Sparrow SAM, 1 76 mm
OTO DP, 2 21 cell RAM, 4 12.75 inch torpedo tubes, 2 20 mm

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
F215 Brandenburg 1994 Wilhelmshaven
F216 Schleswig-Holstein 1995 Wilhelmshaven
F217 Bayern 1996 Wilhelmshaven
F218 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern 1996 Wilhelmshaven

Bremen (Kortenear) class (Type 122) frigates
Displacement: 3,800 tons full load
Dimensions: 130 x 14.4 x 4.26 meters (440 x 48 x 20 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts: 2 cruise diesels, 10,400 bhp, 18 knots;
2 LM2500 boost turbines, 50,000 shp, 30 knots
Crew: 200
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 2 Lynx helicopters
Radar: DA-08 air search
Sonar: DSQS-21BX hull
Fire Control: WM-25 weapons control, 2 STIR-18 missile control
EW: FL-1800S intercept, 4 SRBOC, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 8 Harpoon SSM, 1 8 cell Sea Sparrow SAM (24 missiles
total, manual reload), 1 76 mm OTO DP, 4 12.75 inch TT, 2 21 cell RAM,
2 20mm
German version of the Dutch Kortanear class. Being modernized
with TRS 3-D radar in place of DA-08, FL-1800 II in place of
FL-1800S EW, new communications, and new computers.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
F207 Bremen 1982 Wilhelmshaven
F208 Niedersachsen 1982 Wilhelmshaven
F209 Rheinland-Pfalz 1983 Wilhelmshaven
F210 Emden 1983 Wilhelmshaven
F211 Koln 1984 Wilhelmshaven
F212 Karlsruhe 1984 Wilhelmshaven
F213 Augsburg 1989 Wilhelmshaven
F214 Lubeck 1990 Wilhelmshaven

Type 130 light frigates
Displacement: approx. 1580 tons
Dimensions: 88 x 13.2 meters (281.5 x 42 feet)
Propulsion: Diesel, 30 knots
Crew: approx. 50
Aviation: 2 drone helicopters
Armament: 8 Harpoon SSM, 8 Polyphem SSM, 1 21 cell RAM launcher,
2 76 mm OTO DP
New "corvette" project intended to replace patrol boats; 6
to be built, first to commission in 2005-2006.


Submarines
Type 212A submarines
Displacement: 1,830 tons submerged
Dimensions: 56 x 7 x 6 meters
Propulsion: Diesel-electric, AIP, 1 diesel, 1 shaft, 4,243 hp, 20 knots
Crew: 27
Sonar: CSU-90 suite with bow, flank and towed arrays
Armament: 6 21 inch torpedo tubes; 12 torpedoes (plus 24 external mines)
A new-design submarine, significantly larger than previous boats.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
[S181 U31 2003 building]
[S182 U32 2004 ordered]
[S183 U33 2005 ordered]
[S184 U34 2006 ordered]

Type 206A small coastal submarines
Displacement: 520 tons submerged
Dimensions: 48.6 x 4.7 x 4.3 meters (159.5 x 15 x 14 feet)
Propulsion: Diesel-electric, 2 diesels, 2 shafts, 2,300 shp, 17 knots
Crew: 22
Sonar: DBQS-21D active, AN5039A1 passive
Armament: 8 21 inch torpedo tubes (16 torpedoes & mines),
24 external mines
Small coastal submarines; all survivors upgraded to 206A standard.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
S194 U15 1974 Eckernforde
S195 U16 1973 Eckernforde
S196 U17 1973 Eckernforde
S197 U18 1973 Eckernforde
S171 U22 1974 Eckernforde
S172 U23 1975 Eckernforde
S173 U24 1974 Eckernforde
S174 U25 1974 Eckernforde
S175 U26 1975 Eckernforde
S177 U28 1974 Eckernforde
S178 U29 1974 Eckernforde
S179 U30 1975 Eckernforde


Patrol Craft
Gepard (S71) class (Type 143) missile boats
Displacement: 390 tons full load
Dimensions: 57.6 x 7.76 x 2.56 meters (189 x 25.5 x 7 feet)
Propulsion: 4 diesels, 4 shafts, 16,000 bhp, 32 knots
Crew: 34
Fire Control: 1 WM-27 weapons control
EW: FL-1800 intercept, chaff
Armament: 4 MM38 Exocet SSM, 1 76 mm OTO DP, 1 21 cell RAM

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
P6121 Gepard (S71) 1982 Warnemuende
P6122 Puma (S72) 1983 Warnemuende
P6123 Hermelin (S73) 1983 Warnemuende
P6124 Nerz (S74) 1983 Warnemuende
P6125 Zobel (S75) 1983 Warnemuende
P6126 Frettchen (S76) 1983 Warnemuende
P6127 Dachs (S77) 1984 Warnemuende
P6128 Ozelot (S7 1984 Warnemuende
P6129 Wiesel (S79) 1984 Warnemuende
P6130 Hyane (S80) 1984 Warnemuende

Albatros (S61) class (Type 143) missile boats
Displacement: 393 tons full load
Dimensions: 57.6 x 7.76 x 2.56 meters (188.5 x 26 x 8 feet)
Propulsion: 4 diesels, 4 shafts, 16,000 bhp, 38 knots
Crew: 34
Fire Control: 1 WM-27 weapons control
EW: DR2000 intercept, chaff
Armament: 4 MM38 Exocet SSM, 2 76 mm OTO DP, 2 21 inch ASW torpedo tubes

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
P6111 Albatros (S61) 1976 Warnemuende
P6112 Falke (S62) 1976 Warnemuende
P6113 Geier (S63) 1976 Warnemuende
P6114 Bussard (S64) 1976 Warnemuende
P6115 Sperber (S65) 1976 Warnemeunde
P6116 Greif (S66) 1976 Warnemuende
P6117 Kondor (S67) 1976 Warnemuende
P6118 Seeadler (S6 1977 Warnemuende
P6119 Habicht (S69) 1977 Warnemuende
P6120 Kormoran (S70) 1977 Warnemuende

Tiger (S41) class (Type 14 missile boats
Displacement: 264 tons full load
Dimensions: 47 x 7.1 x 2.66 meters (154 x 23 x 7 feet)
Propulsion: 4 diesels, 4 shafts, 12,000 bhp, 36 knots
Crew: 30
Radar: Triton-G air/surface search
Fire Control: Castor-CSF weapons control
EW: DR2000 intercept, chaff
Armament: 4 MM38 Exocet SSM, 1 76 mm OTO DP, 1 40 mm AA
Gradually being decommissioned.

Number Name Year Homeport Notes
P6148 Lowe (S4 1974 Olpenitz
P6150 Panther (S50) 1974 Olpenitz
P6153 Pelikan (S53) 1974 Olpenitz
P6155 Alk (S55) 1975 Olpenitz
P6156 Dommel (S56) 1975 Olpenitz
P6157 Weihe (S57) 1975 Olpenitz
P6158 Pinguin (S51975 Olpenitz
P6159 Reiher (S59) 1975 Olpenitz

Even a small country like Greece
Surface Combatants
Kimon (CF Adams) class air defense destroyers
Displacement: 4,825 tons full load
Dimensions: 113.19 x 14.32 x 6.1 meters (371.5 x 47 x 20 feet)
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 2 boilers, 2 shafts, 70,000 shp, 30 knots
Crew: approx. 340-350
Radar: SPS-40B 2-D air search, SPS-39A 3-D air search
Sonar: DE1191 hull
Fire Control: 2 SPG-51C missile control, 1 SPG-53A gun control
EW: SLQ-32(V)2 intercept, SLQ-20 intercept, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 1 Mk13 missile launcher (34 SM-1MR SAM + 6 Harpoon SSM),
2 5/54 DP, 1 8-cell ASROC (4 reloads in some ships), 2 triple 12.75
inch torpedo tubes
Ex-USN.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
DDG 218 Kimon 1962/91 Ex-DDG 18
DDG 219 Nearchos 1963/92 Ex-DDG 24
DDG 220 Formion 1964/92 Ex-DDG 16

Ipiros (Knox class) ASW frigate
Displacement: 4,250 tons full load
Dimensions: 133.5 x 14.17 x 7.46 meters (438 x 46.5 x 24.5 feet)
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 2 boilers, 1 shaft, 35,000 shp, 27 knots
Crew: appox. 250
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 1 AB-212
Radar: SPS-40B 2-D air search
Sonar: SQS-26CX bow, SQR-18 towed
Fire Control: SPG-53 gun control
EW: SLQ-32(V)5 active/passive, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 8-cell ASROC (16 ASROC), 1 5/54 DP, 1 20 mm Phalanx CIWS,
4 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
Ex-USN. Two of the three acquired in 1992 have been decommissioned.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
F456 Ipiros 1969/92 Ex-FF 1056

Elli (Kortenaer/Standard) class frigates
Displacement: 3,786 tons full load
Dimensions: 130.2 x 14.4 x 4.4 meters (427 x 47 x 14.5 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 RM1C cruise gas turbines, 9,800 shp, 20 knots;
2 TM3B boost gas turbines, 51,600 shp, 30 knots
Crew: 200
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 2 AB-212
Radar: LW-08 2-D air search
Sonar: SQS-505 hull
Fire Control: WM-25 missile control, STIR-18 missile control, SEWACO II
combat system
EW: Sphinx intercept, 2 SRBOC, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 8 Harpoon SSM, 1 8-cell Sea Sparrow launcher (24 missiles,
manual reload), 1 76 mm OTO DP (2 in first 2 units), 1 20 mm Phalanx
CIWS (2 in first 2 units), 4 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
All ex-Dutch; first two sold while under construction, others
transferred after several years in Dutch service.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
F450 Elli 1981 Ex-P. Floresz
F451 Limnos 1982 Ex-W.d.With
F459 Adrias 1979/94 Ex-Callenburgh
F460 Aegeon 1980/93 Ex-Banckert
F461 Navarino 1980/95 Ex-V.Kinsbergen
F462 Kountouriotis 1978/97 Ex-Kortenaer
F463 Bouboulina 1983/01 Ex-Pieter Florisz]
F464 ? 1983/01 Ex-Jan Van Brakel]

Ydra class (MEKO 200 type) frigates
Displacement: 3,100 tons full load
Dimensions: 117.5 x 14.8 x 6 meters (395.5 x 48.5 x 19.5 feet)
Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 cruise diesels, 10,400 bhp, 21 knots;
2 LM2500-30 boost gas turbines, 60,600 shp, 31.75 knots
Crew: 173
Aviation: aft helicopter deck and hangar; 1 SH-60
Radar: MW-08 3-D air search, DA-08 early warning
Sonar: DE1160 hull
Fire Control: 2 STIR-18
EW: APECS-II intercept, 4 SRBOC, SLQ-25 Nixie
Armament: 8 Harpoon SSM, VLS for 16 Sea Sparrow SAM, 1 5/54 DP,
2 20 mm Phalanx CIWS, 2 triple 12.75 inch torpedo tubes
First built in Germany, others in Greece. Two more may be
built, with an extended hull and Mk41 VLS.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
F452 Ydra 1992
F453 Spetsai 1996
F454 Psara 1998
F455 Salamis 1998


Submarines

Katsonis class (Type 214) submarines
Displacement: 1,700+ tons submerged
Dimensions: 64 x 6.3 meters
Propulsion: Diesel-electric and AIP, 20 knots
Crew: approx. 30
Sonar:
Armament: 8 21 inch torpedo tubes
German-design; first to be built in Germany and the others assembled
in Greece.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
[?? Katsonis building]
[?? ?? ordered]
[?? ?? ordered]
[?? ?? option]

Glavkos class (Type 209/1100 and 209/1200) coastal submarines
Displacement: 1,207 tons submerged (second 4: 1,285 tons submerged)
Dimensions: 54.1 x 6.2 x 5.9 meters (177.5 x 20 x 19 feet)
(second 4: 56.1 meters/184 feet long)
Propulsion: Diesel-electric, 4 diesels, 1 shaft, 5,000 shp, 22 knots
Crew: 31
Sonar: CSU 83/90 suite (second 4: AN626 passive, AN406 active)
Armament: 8 21 inch torpedo tubes (14 torpedoes + Harpoon SSM in
first four)
All German-built. First four recently overhauled and upgraded.

Number Name Year FLT Homeport Notes
S110 Glavkos 1971
S111 Nereus 1972
S112 Triton 1972
S113 Proteus 1972
S116 Poseidon 1979
S117 Amfrititi 1979
S118 Okeanos 1979
S119 Pontos 1980

 

[EnigmaNZ]

Was there a purpose to this post, there is no comment attached.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

I did not say NZ could invade Oz I said if we did go in we could cause damage. Honestly do you think a country of 4mil could take on a country of 20mil? offcoarse not. I just said when the anzacs get upgraded(if) NZ will be much more capible.

 

[EnigmaNZ]

We would not cause any damage Jason.
1. If they knew we were coming to cause damage we would be sunk by their FFG's, or upgraded Anzacs, or a Collins, or a F-111, F-18, Orion, all of which can launch long range antiship missiles. They are even possibly acquiring Tomahawk in which case they could sink the Anzac at the pier.
2. The upgrades are not a given till they are completed. If National last 1 term, Labour will be in before 2010.
However any upgrade will be welcome, depends what the government of the day percieves the threat matrix (I can use it too Gary lol) to be, and whether they want to spend the money on reducing or eliminating the threat.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Jason, if you're going to try and argue numbers then at least copy the right ones...

I'm not sure the Greeks wanted to try and invade Australia.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

They will not think we are coming to attack,thats the thing, it could be on an exercise. Say they are going on an exercise, they load the gear off in,say brisbane,the f-18s will not launch a missile because it will harm to many civilians, the LAV and javilin will be firing at random buildings destroying hundreds of lives, but this will never happen. What I was trying to say from the start is that ANY country can kill millions of people with the elimant of suprise. I am not trying to prove NZ is the best, what I am saying is we could cause damage with suprise, but why cause any damage anyway? There is no point, I was just saying that we could if we had a phyco for a NZ Leader.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Well Jason, you're probably not that familiar with Brisbane, so I'll give a little geography lesson. The MRV could not make it to the centre of Brisbane due to the bridges. It would forced to try and unload it's LAV's and Javelin's further out possibly at the port of Brisbane. Once the phone call's about mad Kiwi's running around firing Javelin's and shooting the 25mm cannon of their LAVIII's around an RF-111 would probably sent over on a recce mission.

It would spot NZ's suicidal activities and would be immediately followed by a strike force of F-111's which would smash the MRV with laser guided bombs. The Australian Army's 7th Brigade (which incidentally is bigger than NZ's entire front line Army force) would then be deployed to mop up the 100 or so soldiers that the MRV could actually deliver and the dozen or so LAVIII's that could be brought. I predict this NZ force, even if dispersed would remain an effective force for about 10-12 hours.

Another strike force of F-111's would probably meanwhile have been dispatched to teach NZ itself a lesson with a strike on the rest of the RNZN which would sink your entire force probably on the very first mission.

The RAN would be deployed to completely blockade NZ and strikes would continue occuring until your psyco leader either commited suicide, either voluntarily or by a lynch mob of enraged sheep farmers whose, Lamb, Mutton and Wool were no longer generated income of any kind for NZ....

 

[Jason_kiwi]

It goes a little like this. The men and LAV's deplayed also hav mistrils so all air attacks are taken down. The MRV gets destroyed. The troops, LAV's and Javilins kill 100,000's of people and many Oz troops. Oz flys the F-111's to NZ but NZ is on alert, the incoming F-111 get takin down by seasparrow missiles. So they send an Oz fleet over. But the NZ ships layed out mines so the Oz fleet gets smashed. Then Oz sends a few subs but the orions soon find them and smash them to with torps. Oz trys more air attacks but keep getting knocked down. An air NZ 747 flys over the government center and crashes into is. Their is no law and order left in Oz and everything goes to third world.

 

[Jason_kiwi]

It becomes the worlds most embarrasing moment that a small country like NZ hammered Oz. NZ never ends up taking it because we thought we should give the kangaroos a chance. A bit like the bedslocup, we give the Oz's a chance but they can never get it. Shame that...

 

[EnigmaNZ]

God reading Jason's post makes me so embarrassed to be a kiwi. We brought 24 javelin missiles, won't be taking out a lot of targets with that many, certainly not killing millions. We also only have a small number of mistrals and only 2 alerting and cueing systems. Sea sparrows are short ranged and the F-111's will launch from outside their range so no F-111 will get shot down. It's normal practice I believe to launch 2 missiles at a target in case one misses, so a anzac can take out 4 aircraft if they are stupid enough to come close in. God I can't be bothered with this.


Interesting site guys that goes into the problems Labour has presented Defence with in it's term.
http://juni0r.orcon.net.nz/defencedebate.html

 

[Aussie Digger]

You should post into the Comedy thread rather than military forums Jason, you'd get the same amount of laughs. Any actual conflict between Australia and New Zealand, would result in the near total destruction of the NZDF. Sea Sparrow missiles could not stop Australian F-111's or F/A-18's from striking NZ.

Any attempt would bring about your ANZAC class ships own destruction. RAAF F-111's have sunk US Carriers in Tandem Thrust exercises in Australia. An ANZAC frigate would pose NO real threat whatsoever. The Sea sparrow for instance has a 14.5k maximum range and your frigates carry only 8 of them...

Any such airstrike would likely destroy any assets NZ possesses which could pose any sort of threat to Australian forces. This includes your P-3K's, ANZAC frigates, OPV's and IPV's. Strikes would then focus on your military bases. With only a single troop of Mistral SAM's in the NZDF's inventory (about 8 launchers), you can't deploy them AND have them at home. You'd have to do one or the other.

Personally I'd keep them at home to try and defend you strategic assets, but that's just me. Your 100 strong deployment force will get annihilated anyway. Why waste such a valuable and limited asset?

AS to the Bledisloe Cup, Australia has won it many, many times. We held the cup for 5 years straight from 1998 to 2002, IIRC. Btw, how did NZ go in the last World cup? It seems to have slipped my memory. Could you perhaps refresh my memory?

 

[abramsteve]

I used to wonder why the Kiwis haven't seen the light and become a state yet, but with fellas like this Jason it shows. What the heck does he think that the cops in Brisy will be doing when all this shooting starts, not to mention when the army arrives.
By the way, becoming a state would help you problems with defence.

 

[abramsteve]

I almost forgot to add that the police in Australia are actually armed with firearms, there not the best but they are a whole lot more lethal than the pepper spray that kiwis might be more acquainted to

 

[webmaster]

I think this topic has reached it's life span.

Locking.

Jason, no offense but next time come up with a better topic than Kiwies vs the Aussies/Europeans or rest of the world.