Juan Carlos / Canberra Class LHD

[SpazSinbad]

It may well have been but take a look at any old images of RAN ships deployed to the tropics in the 60s and 70s and you will see just about everyone working on the upper deck wearing nothing but blue shorts and sandals, we may have been unaware of the cancer risks but we all did it with pleasure.

Yes I was there - 3 months on HMAS Anzac training destroyer waiting for Pilot Course mid 1967, going to Pacific Islands (Tonga / Fiji) via the edge of a cyclone first day out and my first day at sea - sick as a dog. Baking on the fright deck of MELBOURNE on the way back from RIMPAC 1971 - flying finished - big mistake. I know the hazards and await possible consequences of too much sun early on.

Recently had a physical medical emergency requiring hospitalisation for six days; possibly related to my A4G flying days - the catapult was brutal but fun - always looked forward to that 5-6G punch in the chest with a closed fist for about 1.5 seconds. Except at night. The arrest in about 200 feet was also a shock at first but of course very welcome.

Back at NAS Nowra weather less tropical more cold and drizzle, so no need for anyone to go shirtless - a good thing.

 

[SASWanabe]

is it the forum software messing up all of your quotes, or is it that your just not removing that pesky

tag?

 

[DaveS124]

Thanks for the info.

No worries. Great video at the link showing JCI's Fly 1 spot being used - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMK8kyJ9pO8&index=59&list=PLVoWhpBDY2hywmYW0CKnvu_x5oUwixBxU

 

[Stampede]

No worries. Great video at the link showing JCI's Fly 1 spot being used - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMK8kyJ9pO8&index=59&list=PLVoWhpBDY2hywmYW0CKnvu_x5oUwixBxU

Thanks for the link
Will be interesting to watch the developement of aviation off the Juan Carlos / Canberra class in the years ahead. Maybe one day we will see a full flight deck of helicopters, 6 to port and 2 on the starboard side ready to launch. Might though need to get the white paint brush out to enhance flight opperations on Canberra's starbord flight deck!!
I think this year it's getting the Tigers on board and increasing the numbers of existing certified helicopters on board to up the training of both flight opperations and deck / hanger handling and moving.
Busy days ahead and alot to learn.
Will watch with interest
Stampede

 

[John Newman]

How many Tigers will be onboard?

Mate, I suggest you read the Forum rules real quick, and I mean real quick, ONE liners are not allowed.

If you are looking for a rather short stay here, well continue on with the one liners, and it will be a short stay.

 

[RobWilliams]

Sorry, I didnt notice that rule.

I think my question is related to my post, because I do not think that a limited number of Tigers onboard canberra-class ships can really make a difference strategically.

Therefore, I wanted to highlight this point with my question on the number of attack helicopters on the ship.

Not everything has to make a strategic difference. Apaches from Ocean over Libya didn't provide a strategic difference, but as a strike capability in coastal areas it offered a decent enough tactical capability.

 

[t68]

Sorry, I didnt notice that rule.

I think my question is related to my post, because I do not think that a limited number of Tigers onboard canberra-class ships can really make a difference strategically.

Therefore, I wanted to highlight this point with my question on the number of attack helicopters on the ship.

The exact compasition of the aircraft will depend mission at the time. We could in theory put up to 22 helicopters onboard, but I doubt that will be practical.


Look at Op Ellamy In 2011 and that may you give an indication.

 

[Oberon]

How many Tigers will be onboard?

Depends on the mission. None of the aviation assets is permanently embarked on the LHDs. They are only embarked when a specific mission is planned. For instance, if the mission is a HADR mission Tigers would not be embarked as they are not required. Transport helicopters such as MRH-90s, or possibly Chinooks, would most likely be embarked.

 

[Blas de Lezo]

SNA 2016: UK France Italy and Spain Said to be Interested in Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

It is interesting the comment about Ocean, Cavour or Mistral to fit them in lift and or hangar

 

[t68]

SNA 2016: UK France Italy and Spain Said to be Interested in Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

It is interesting the comment about Ocean, Cavour or Mistral to fit them in lift and or hangar

I can understand the UK interest for them as they will serve multiple role's in the future everything from troop lift to COD and AAR, that also extends to the French from memory they don't have any capability for AAR for CDG.

There is no need to modify Ocean as from memory she has an osd of 2018, certainly interesting if true about Cavour, but then most on here including myself only thought V22 had only one spot on JC1/Canberra, but as we saw recently on Trident Juncture 2015 with 4 xV22,6x AV-8B and helicopter support its not out of the realms for the Spanish or even a future ADF.

Problem is Spain is still struggling economically wise, Swerve seems to think they have turned the corner and whilst defence needs a re-investment I think V22 will be far down the list aircraft that need to be replace soon are,

Navy
EAV-8B+
SH-3 Sea Kings
SH-60 Seahawk (6x SH-60 rebuilt from USN stock in 2010)

Air Force
Hornet fleet EF-18AM,EF-18BM, F/A-18A+
Orion fleet, P-3A, P-3M
AAR fleet KC-707/B-707
Hercules KC-130H, C-130H

 

[Blas de Lezo]

I can understand the UK interest for them as they will serve multiple role's in the future everything from troop lift to COD and AAR, that also extends to the French from memory they don't have any capability for AAR for CDG.

There is no need to modify Ocean as from memory she has an osd of 2018, certainly interesting if true about Cavour, but then most on here including myself only thought V22 had only one spot on JC1/Canberra, but as we saw recently on Trident Juncture 2015 with 4 xV22,6x AV-8B and helicopter support its not out of the realms for the Spanish or even a future ADF.

Problem is Spain is still struggling economically wise, Swerve seems to think they have turned the corner and whilst defence needs a re-investment I think V22 will be far down the list aircraft that need to be replace soon are,

Navy
EAV-8B+
SH-3 Sea Kings
SH-60 Seahawk (6x SH-60 rebuilt from USN stock in 2010)

Air Force
Hornet fleet EF-18AM,EF-18BM, F/A-18A+
Orion fleet, P-3A, P-3M
AAR fleet KC-707/B-707
Hercules KC-130H, C-130H

You are very right there
We haven´t got a substitute for the av8b+ although the current fleet will get to 2025 at least.
The SH-3 and 60 were going to be substituted by 28 NH90´s NFH/TTH/CSAR/AEW That got cancelled in 2010 due to the crisis.

The airforce is still receiving the Typhoons and there are no programs in place yet for the substitution of the F18´s
The Orion fleet??? no program in place.
The 707 are going to be replaced by 330´s.
And the Hercules fleet is being replaced by the A400´s.

The Armada has shown interest for the V22 but I doubt very much we would have the budget to play.

 

[Volkodav]

The original single spot for an MV-22 was likely a certification thing. As the type was not in service with Spain or Australia the only requirement was to certify a single spot for cross decking, once there was a need to operate additional airframes, for the exercise, the other spots were checked out and certified.

 

[Blas de Lezo]

A very decent video with unseen images of JCI in operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fVpVseNps&feature=youtu.be

There are lots of details that I had not seen before, enjoy it.

 

[ASSAIL]

A very decent video with unseen images of JCI in operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fVpVseNps&feature=youtu.be

There are lots of details that I had not seen before, enjoy it.

Thanks Blas, an impressive video and I was surprised to see the LCMs entering the dock in quite rough conditions. It puts to rest some of the rubbish put by a few commentators here in Oz.

 

[Volkodav]

Yes, thankyou, very impressive. That video shows just how easily Australias ships could be upgraded, just buy already certified equipment through FMS when and as required. What we have at the moment is a minimum level of capability that could be massively expanded on as soon as the money is made available.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Yes, thankyou, very impressive. That video shows just how easily Australias ships could be upgraded, just buy already certified equipment through FMS when and as required. What we have at the moment is a minimum level of capability that could be massively expanded on as soon as the money is made available.

Would be interesting to start having Australia's LHD perform similar training with the USMC and other nearby/reliable nations. (Singapore, UK, Japan spring to mind).

I would imagine perhaps after we form a brief Amphibious Ready Group. The next item would be then about working with allies to form a more realistic multinational Amphibious Ready Group in conjunction with one or two other highly reliable nations.

They can certainly handle a lot of a equipment and is a capable platform. I never see any footage with a tiger on board though (did I miss it?).

 

[ADMk2]

Would be interesting to start having Australia's LHD perform similar training with the USMC and other nearby/reliable nations. (Singapore, UK, Japan spring to mind).

I would imagine perhaps after we form a brief Amphibious Ready Group. The next item would be then about working with allies to form a more realistic multinational Amphibious Ready Group in conjunction with one or two other highly reliable nations.

They can certainly handle a lot of a equipment and is a capable platform. I never see any footage with a tiger on board though (did I miss it?).

One was coming in to land, but I don't think the gootage showed it...

 

[Raven22]

I would imagine perhaps after we form a brief Amphibious Ready Group. The next item would be then about working with allies to form a more realistic multinational Amphibious Ready Group in conjunction with one or two other highly reliable nations.

Canberra and the ARE will take party in RIMPAC this year. Next year the entire ARG (all three Amphibs filled to the brim) will take part in Ex TALISMAN SABRE with an entire Marine Expeditionary Strike Group. That will be about as big an amphib exercise as we're ever likely to take part in.

As an aside, those interested in Australia's amphib capability would be interested in the following quote from the White Paper:

The Government will further invest in enhancements to the ADF’s amphibious capability, including to the sensors, countermeasures and weapons on board the Canberra Class ships. This capability will be developed further over time, taking account of our experience in operating the Canberra Class.

Essentially, the scope of employment for the amphib capability has increased since the last White Paper, so you can expect the Canberras to get more pointy things on board, among other things.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Canberra and the ARE will take party in RIMPAC this year. Next year the entire ARG (all three Amphibs filled to the brim) will take part in Ex TALISMAN SABRE with an entire Marine Expeditionary Strike Group. That will be about as big an amphib exercise as we're ever likely to take part in.

I think it will be very interesting, I would imagine it may even affect future procurement and planning. While not a regular thing, I would imagine it may impact on what we see as a regular thing and what tools we need and how many. Certainly Juan Carlos 1 is showing that getting maximum capability out of a LHD now is probably different to how it was envisaged back in 2005.Certainly we(or Spain?) didn't acquire it with the idea of operating 6 MV-22 off the deck.

Will Australia make moves to make its amphibious ready group, more ready than a one off?

Essentially, the scope of employment for the amphib capability has increased since the last White Paper, so you can expect the Canberras to get more pointy things on board, among other things.

I do wonder if that means things like Nulka and ESSM (both weight/space reserved for). Phalanx/SeaRAM? Fitted more like a USMC LHD? To be better able to integrate into a ESG? Could we fit a part ARE together as part of a US ARG? IMO locking into that kind of level of capability with the Americans would be pretty huge.

Considering where the ADF was coming from with amphibious capability, its an interesting and rapid development.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Will Australia make moves to make its amphibious ready group, more ready than a one off?

I'd assume that staff have been attached to USMC ARG's for a reason.......