JSF vs F/A-22
- Thread starter armage
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No, what I was saying was that the competition was between the YF-22 (Lockheed-Martin) and the YF-23 (Boeing-Northrup).SABRE said:
Lockheed won, that's why we have a F/A-22. There will be no F-23.
It was called the ATF. Now it's called the F/A-22.
The OP was "Which fighter would win between the JSF and the F-22"? Since both AC are fielded by the US and her allies, there will never be a competition. That's what I meant by "whoever stole the AC would lose".
Gf, I worked on both of these, as well as the B-2. I built the first working set of F-22 wing spars. 3 other companies tried before it came down to me. I wrote the planning on that job.gf0012-aust said:
There were 2 YF-23's built for competition on the contract.
Just like there will be no Boeing version of the JSF, there will be no Boeing version of the ATF. The bomber (if it ever gets built) will be an FB-22, or something new. (Nobody tools up for two planes, the YF-23's were handmade)
-CM
Oh, so i miss interpreted. Sorry abt tht.
But still neither me, nor u, or GF can tell fr sure if YF-23 is gone to closet for ever. Also no one can say what will happen to the black bird
As for the comparing is concerned, its just a general measurment. A hypthesis. We dont mean to see them realy against each other. We r only saying "What If?"... "Than Who?"..just that
But still neither me, nor u, or GF can tell fr sure if YF-23 is gone to closet for ever. Also no one can say what will happen to the black bird
As for the comparing is concerned, its just a general measurment. A hypthesis. We dont mean to see them realy against each other. We r only saying "What If?"... "Than Who?"..just that
Sabre, it's cool. I'm not pissed.
Trust me, the YF-23 will never be. We will do something new, rather than resurrect a loser from 15 years ago, (or more likely, we will reinvent the F-22, which we are already tooled up for).
I won't speculate about the Blackbird. It's been an amazing AC, but it's very old. It makes a nice museum piece. Who knows? We just may drag it out again, though I doubt it...
Trust me, the YF-23 will never be. We will do something new, rather than resurrect a loser from 15 years ago, (or more likely, we will reinvent the F-22, which we are already tooled up for).
I won't speculate about the Blackbird. It's been an amazing AC, but it's very old. It makes a nice museum piece. Who knows? We just may drag it out again, though I doubt it...
Its so amazing how Lockheed-Martin always wins against Northop-Grumman. USAF choose Lockheed F-16s over Grumman's F-20 n so did our PAF which was once a big buyer of NorthopGrumman's Sabres. USAF choose F-22 over YF-23. The X-29 project of Grumman is almost into the waters now. While u say LockHeed Black Bird may still have a chance. LockHeed-Martin were the lucky one to get the JSF-35 project. Only US navy has eye for Grumman & McDonal Douglas.Other than that I cant say who works with them. Grumman & McDonal Douglas r AC giants but they r loosing it all to LockHeed-MArtin. Lockheed has already won USAF's trust.highsea said:
Even though LM won the design contracts, the production is shared between both companies. Lol, when you mentioned the Blackbird, I thought you were referring to the old one, not the new UAV...
Before the big consolidation, we had too many companies trying to stay afloat. There was Lockheed, Martin-Marietta, Northrop-Grumman, McDonnell-Douglas, General Dynamics, and Boeing. It just wasn't practical.
Anyway, the US doesn't want to get stuck with just one company that builds fighters, so that's why everything ultimately gets shared between LM and Boeing. Boeing is very good at building AC, but their fighter designs just aren't quite there yet,imo. The Boeing version of the JSF looked like a pregnant slug to me, lol. When Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas, they got the F-18 and F-15 along with the rest. They weren't in the fighter business before that. I tend to trust LM's designs over Boeing, but like I said, Boeing is very good at production, so much of the F-22 and JSF are built by Boeing, even though they are technically LM aircraft.
Before the big consolidation, we had too many companies trying to stay afloat. There was Lockheed, Martin-Marietta, Northrop-Grumman, McDonnell-Douglas, General Dynamics, and Boeing. It just wasn't practical.
Anyway, the US doesn't want to get stuck with just one company that builds fighters, so that's why everything ultimately gets shared between LM and Boeing. Boeing is very good at building AC, but their fighter designs just aren't quite there yet,imo. The Boeing version of the JSF looked like a pregnant slug to me, lol. When Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas, they got the F-18 and F-15 along with the rest. They weren't in the fighter business before that. I tend to trust LM's designs over Boeing, but like I said, Boeing is very good at production, so much of the F-22 and JSF are built by Boeing, even though they are technically LM aircraft.
Going slightly oftopic can anyone clarify the status of the A-17, an aircraft designed with electronic warfare and deep reconnaissance in mind
the A-17 is believed to have evolved from the YF-23 Advanced Tactical Fighter, The YF-23 being the fighter that lost out to Lockheed's F-22 :?:
the A-17 is believed to have evolved from the YF-23 Advanced Tactical Fighter, The YF-23 being the fighter that lost out to Lockheed's F-22 :?:
doggychow14
New Member
I do you think the pak-fa, mca, or j-xx will compare to the f-22? I think their all suppose to be up and running at around 2015
I said wing spars, not spare wings. And yes, I worked on the first set. They were machined on a 5-axis SNK vertical milling machine in a shop just outside of Seattle. No more details, sorry.redsoulja said:
Boeing builds the wings, aft fuselage section, and some other systems.
So u mean to say that even if LockHeed gets the 1st prize, it will have to share with others.highsea said:
Is there some kind of contract between lockheed & being or USAF just puts up lockheed with what ever company they like.
Anyways cant USA earn some money by selling off the tech of the Jets they reject. I mean can they sell the technology of YF-23 to some allied nation if it wanted it.
Well, the original teams were Northrup-Grumman/McDonnell-Douglas on the YF-23 and Lockheed-Boeing-General Dynamics on the YF-22. So Boeing was always a partner with Lockheed on the program. The only reason that I saw pieces of each AC was because from the mid 80's to mid 90's I was working for a tier-one contractor that did business with both companies.
It was after the Lockheed team won the design competition that Boeing acquired McDonell-Douglas'sfighter business. MD didn't think they could stay afloat without the ATF business, so they merged with Boeing, which already had a piece. Congress wouldn't have allowed a Lockheed/N-G merger, because that would have left the US with only one company that could produce fighter AC.
As far as selling the YF-23 technology, that would be problematic due to export restrictions on strategic technology. Congress would not be likely to approve it, because they would view it as negating or degrading the technical superiority of the Raptor. Also, the US has to consider the possibility of exporting the F-22 to certain allies sometime in the future, and we wouldn't want to generate unnessary competition. Also, since Boeing now owns the design, they would look at it as competing with themselves, so it wouldn't be a very smart business decision.
It was after the Lockheed team won the design competition that Boeing acquired McDonell-Douglas'sfighter business. MD didn't think they could stay afloat without the ATF business, so they merged with Boeing, which already had a piece. Congress wouldn't have allowed a Lockheed/N-G merger, because that would have left the US with only one company that could produce fighter AC.
As far as selling the YF-23 technology, that would be problematic due to export restrictions on strategic technology. Congress would not be likely to approve it, because they would view it as negating or degrading the technical superiority of the Raptor. Also, the US has to consider the possibility of exporting the F-22 to certain allies sometime in the future, and we wouldn't want to generate unnessary competition. Also, since Boeing now owns the design, they would look at it as competing with themselves, so it wouldn't be a very smart business decision.
Great Info's high Sea. First I used to wait for gf-aust007's replies n m also lookin 4ward 2wars ur replies as well.highsea said:
Anyways is this a permenent team of LH-M,Boeing & GD. I mean I have herd their name togather quite alot. but I have also herd Boeing with McDonal Douglas on F-15 project. I saw a documentory in which they said that AC carrier based F-15s r made by Boeing n r slightly different in wings from McDonal douglas' F-15s. Is it true (well we have gone way off topic but info is quite good. It should be compiled n posted here---I'll do it in few days)
When Boeing absorbed McDonnell-Douglas, they got the F-15. But they are not carrier planes, Air Force and ANG only. The Navy plane is the F-18, which Boeing also got in the McDonell-Douglas deal.SABRE said:
Boeing shut down the McDonnell-Douglas airliner production, because they were direct competition for Boeing's commercial division. So the M-D deal for Boeing was basically to add the F-15 to the Space and Defense Group (now called Integrated Defence Systems), and get rid of some competition on the commercial side.
Boeing was a partner in the B-2, and built parts of the AC, but N-G was the prime contractor. Support, spares, etc. is provided by Boeing today.
The same thing went with North American-Rockwell and the B-1. NA-Rockwell was the prime contractor, Boeing was a partner, later absorbed North American, and now provides the B-1 support as well.
The same thing went with North American-Rockwell and the B-1. NA-Rockwell was the prime contractor, Boeing was a partner, later absorbed North American, and now provides the B-1 support as well.