JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions

[SABRE]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

JF-17 is better than F-16 A/B in many respect (BVR consideration).

Now I have my question.
Can JF-17 be made better than Mirage2000-5,9?

Yes coz there is a room left to upgrade and enhance JF-17 if fitted with high tech can come closer to mirage 2005/9 air refueling is underconsideration thats why overall cost rise from 10 million to 15.

hmmm... so that means we are countering two jets (F-16a/b & Mirage2000-5) with one Jet (JF-17). This just might just be the reason PAF is not buying Mirage 2000-5 & 9. If its so, than we need only one Front Line Jet rather than buying two. This makes room for Rafeal.

Many ppl r saying Rafeal hasnt had a combat experience, well so didnt the Mirage 3 & 5 when PAF bought them, but whem they went into combat they were victoious. PAF cant wait for Rafeal to go into a battle. Lets just buy 20 of them and Put JF-17 in its Squadron. Rafeal and JF-17 flying togather. If we get Gripens, it would turn PAF into something realy big, good & to watch out for.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

nice theory SABRE. but i myself prefer the JF-17 & Gripen combination or if not the gripen then the eurofighter or rafale like you just said

 

[SABRE]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

nice theory SABRE. but i myself prefer the JF-17 & Gripen combination or if not the gripen then the eurofighter or rafale like you just said

We r thinking the same thing PAF , its just that i dint mentioned EF-2000. Anyways I dnt want to see any thing in PAF thats has risks behind them like of being baned. Rafeal wont be. French provided our Airforce with Mirages in 1965 even when the war was on we were getting its equipment. There is a historical reason for this. Some how after the partition French saw India as friends of Britain as their first Governer Genreal was MountBatin but Pakistan's GG was our very own beloved father of Nation Muhammad Ali Jinnah who denied the post to lord MountBatin n said he would rather take careof the infant himself. This gave us quite a valuse in the eyes of French n they still like us as compaired to India. Believe me I meet French ppl near its Counslate in Karachi every Monday n Thursday, n the prefer us over India. On the other hand we too have not dissapointed France. So I belive with such a love between US & French lets just settle for French Machine. They have given away their Sub-Marine tech to us, Mirage 3 n 5 tech is also some what transfered to US. As we have dicussed JF-17 being equal to Mirage 2000-5 n 9, so we dnt need the, this leaves us with one French Machine "Rafeal". So why not do it. About Gripens, m happy to tell you the deal is alive, but Sweden wants some commitments n PAkistan wants it to be risk free. Now lets hope that we all can settle down on some thing.

I preference is: JF-17 & Gripens with Rafeal in their lead. Beauty wouldnt it be?

EF-2000 might just have some Risks behind it. Its a joint venture between 5 or 6 european Nations n no country out side NATO n Europe realy knws its buying procidure. Besides Software Glitch is scaring every one. But they r good to n if we buy them than we dropm Rafeal n stick to JF-17, Gripens with EF-2000 in their lead.

 

[ashoaib]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

French consider Pakistan and India in same catagory like they give us Augusta 90B Sub and offering india the tech of destorying subs and Scorpion Subs which are much better than Augusta. May be the people you meet have their own views France is open to every one all they want their equipment sold at good rate. They are friendly to Pakistan but they are more friendly to thier business.
Ef2000 and Rafale both have software Glitch as i read on a website, address i dont remember. EF2000 is better in manoeuverablity and it is a miltirole Italy is also involved in the project so we can ask them but there will be a risks if other partners put pressure on Italy than......
While on the other hand Rafale has its own capabilites better than EF i.e bomber.
I think JF-17, Gripens with EF-2000 or Rafale in their lead will be a good combination.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

every aircraft has glitches on deployment thats why they are tested till the end of there life time. So Ef2000 will be tested till the program is shut down. There will be a new Video that the Webs is going to put up, i uploaded it it has a video about the Ef2000 the RED Arrows and RAF Capability, in the Film the Ef2000 takes off shows off its capability and its excellent maneuverability, i have no doubt EF2000 is the ultimate Su30 beater. EF2000 Rules the Sky till F-22 phases inn.

 

[SABRE]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

I think both Ef-2000 & F-22 have different role n purposes, so there is no reason to compare them. If u ve to compare EF-2000 with any Jet than compare it with F-35 JSF.

Anyways; thanks ashoaib, atleast we agree on the combinition, nothing else matters

the chances of getting Rafael are more than chances of getting EF-2000. So I my self will prefer easy way out.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

the F-22 has no assigned role in the USAF at the moment, However it is being groomed inn to act as the replacement AC for the F-15 Fleet. the Capability that the F-22 offers is still very broad, its is a good platform there should be no reason why it can't be compared to the EF2000, It can be a true Swing role AC. i am not to sure how it handles it's self in Air, however i can say something aboout the EF2000, which has the rite capabilities to defeat any one if its flown By a good pilot. Screeww all this SU30 mki and JF-17 (ones better then the other) it does not matter what you fly all that matters is when your in a Fight you need the skills to get out of it Alive. sure Modern EW systems BVR's do help, sure you can ask the Comp onboard to spread the jam on the Toast for you, but at the end of the day you've got to think about toast before you make it happen just as youd have to think before you push the button to fight.

 

[srirangan]

The F22 is a cut above EF-2000, SABRE is right EF-2000 could be compared to JSF but the Raptor is way outof its league.

 

[adsH]

The F22 is a cut above EF-2000, SABRE is right EF-2000 could be compared to JSF but the Raptor is way outof its league.

no no sri he actually meant that the RAPTOR comes uder a different Role then the EF2000, which i do not agree on, since the Raptor may be the only AC in the US development stages that does not have a defined role, what i don't get is why assign a particular role why not make it what Economic conscious Air-forces do " Go Swing Role" by making these AC swing role they would get a differnt type of ability that would be provide a comprehensive curriculum to teach to there new generation of pilots for all rounded pilots. they can economize and be more flexible, develop new strategies, have battle feild readiness that provides air cover to suite any battle feild.

 

[ashoaib]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Anyways; thanks ashoaib, atleast we agree on the combinition, nothing else matters

every aircraft has glitches on deployment thats why they are tested till the end of there life time. So Ef2000 will be tested till the program is shut down.

I agree nothing is perfect

in the Film the Ef2000 takes off shows off its capability and its excellent maneuverability, i have no doubt EF2000 takes off shows off its capability and its excellent maneuverability

adsH...Where is the vedio :?

 

[SABRE]

The F22 is a cut above EF-2000, SABRE is right EF-2000 could be compared to JSF but the Raptor is way outof its league.

no no sri he actually meant that the RAPTOR comes uder a different Role then the EF2000, which i do not agree on, since the Raptor may be the only AC in the US development stages that does not have a defined role, what i don't get is why assign a particular role why not make it what Economic conscious Air-forces do " Go Swing Role" by making these AC swing role they would get a differnt type of ability that would be provide a comprehensive curriculum to teach to there new generation of pilots for all rounded pilots. they can economize and be more flexible, develop new strategies, have battle feild readiness that provides air cover to suite any battle feild.

Well every one has his/her own comments. I believe EF-2000 is completely different thing and has nothing to do with F-22 but can be put in comparison against F-35 as both are multirole swing fighters. F-22 is an air superior fighter.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

well pakistans current in need of a multi-role attack aircraft and the best option by far for the PAF is the gripen or EF-2000 as the rafale is more of an bomber as to a fighter.

by 2010

F-16 40
Gripen 60
JF-17 200-250
mirage 50
f-7 60

inshallah

 

[muslim282]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Its amazing how many people dream of the P.A.F having the Rafale and EF2000. But lets be realistic my friends can we AFFORD these.
l think not.
The Gripen..... well just may be.
But how long before we get bogged down by no spares or emabargoes (F16 fiasco).
l think the current route of self reliance with friends like china on projects such as the JF17 are better, coupled with a few modern planes without breaking the bank.
A possible advantage of a Gripen purchase could help in the main problem of the JF17, Avionics,fly by wire,radar and other electricals. This could be tied into a deal in the purchase of Gripens.
Lets be honest, the swedes have better avionics than the russians, meaning Gripens would be more than a handfull for the IAF to deal with.
BVR, flybywire, NVG,extended multi tracking radar, on board computers and integration of equipment l feel would make the JF17 a high end plane.

P.S does anybody know what ejector seat will be used in the JF 17 by pakistan.

 

[P.A.F]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Off course pakistan can afford these planes. the euro fighter is only 30 million and you can check the price of the other aircrafts on the other thread

 

[ashoaib]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

Brother Muslim we can easily afford that ACs at current moment. EF2000's is more worth than its price. If we can afford Gripen or Mirage 2000/5/9 than we can also afford EF2000 or Rafale.
Well its price is not 30 million its from 50 to 60 million $ depend on specifications. Pakistan can afford even 60 at current.

 

[adsH]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

its around 40 mill a piece in Pounds UK and 60 mill in Dollars US, the Initial cost is not the main cause for concern but the Logistical setup and pilot training and the Current Air warfare doctrine would have to be upgraded that would cost huge amounts Training assets would have to modified to facilitate the change over(new syllabuses)(FLYing a British Aircraft requires you to think like ONE). the Entirely new Swing ROLE fighter would have to be Integrated into the current system of Air defense and a role would have to be identified. its not simple and not very cheap. Long tedious Process. the F-16 took a while too to integrate they did put the AC in Air into battle rather quickly but that was war time. And PAF didn't need a new Air doctrine its older one did sufice as the F-16 were self defensive


Sorry about my Last message i wrote some stuff (sentences) that didn't make sense i will fix it soon.

 

[ashoaib]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

yeah its a big issue and painstaking task and cost a lot too but we have to do something we have to spend on such a good AC because ef2000 will be operational for next 47 years as RAF site says. Its a long time.
For how long JF-17 will remain operational?
If you have that vedio of ef2000 than plz show us

 

[ashoaib]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

what if we buy Jaguar and Tarnedos G4 from Britin????

 

[mysterious]

Re: FC-1 / Super 7 / JF-17

There we go again! I got one sentence to solve two threads on this forum (this one and the one which discusses which aircraft should PAF buy) and that is "Too many cooks spoil the broth"!! Hope that goes down well with people suggesting all different types of wierd things that could be done!

 

[srirangan]

>> Lets be honest, the swedes have better avionics than the russians,
>> meaning Gripens would be more than a handfull for the IAF to deal with.

Yes but you discounted the fact that IAF planes don't have Russian avionics