JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 / Super-7 Discussions
- Thread starter kilo_4que
- Start date
Whoa B R man, I think that USA is completely pro-Indian since they are helping them indirectly through Israel and UK. Recently I heard that India is on the verge of purchasing 30 P-3C Orions. Pakistan is one of the countries that are basically on the "axis of evil". It's just that the Americans will never say it themselves.
My special NOTE AND QUESTION to BHARAT_R:
Indian no question about it has superior technology in its grasp than Pakistan. India su-30mki compared to the F-16 are definitely super maneaverable and I personally have seen SU-30MK doing aerobatic maneavers in an Air Shows that are nothing compared to F-15E aerobatic maneavers.
Question is will the Indian pilots like the time 1965 and 71 are trained enough to handle those machines well enough.
In 1965 India had GNAT, MYSTERE fighter and all the good fighter jets (totaling 300)
compared to 78 F-86 sabres PAF had. a Lot of Pakistani pilots were given aircombat training on GNAT's in UK alongwith the Indian pilots.
But India's combat losses in the air were far greater than PAF in numbers. India lost approx 101 fighters comared to PAKistan's 23 fighter loses.
For india percentage loss was close to 33% and for Pakistan 31%. For a large Air Force like India the combat losses was huge.
1971 Indian air Force losses were still higher but PAF had more heavy losses in East Pakistan. BUT some Indian MiG-21 were mostly destroyed on the ground at Kalai Kunda by Mirage 3 and F-86 raids. An F-86 shot down a MiG 21, a MiG 21 with max speeds of Mach 2 and F-86 with max speed of 786 miles/hr. Once again it was F-86 pilots skill that helped him. Pilot Skillset was a factor in 1965 and 1971.
I am not saying that PAF pilots are gifted like Gen. Chuck Yeager. But the possiblity still exists that it is the man in the cockpit that matters the most than the machine.
I am sure Indian pilots will make use of their machine next time much better to refute my last statement for good.
One more, would YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO EVERYONE:
All the WEAPONS THAT INDIA HAS IN ITS INVENTORY, WHO ARE THEY GOING TO USE THEM AGAINST?.
INDIA and you yourself keep saying Pakistan will use their American supplied weapons against India but My question is all the 2200 strong air force that India has who are they going to use it against. India has no better sworn close enemy than Pakistan. PLease do not BS that it is China the danger.
China has no fool to occupy India which is already a large breeding ground for population explosion and AIDS. China is already big enough that it does not need any accesss to any other places plus China already has its problems with population.
I rest my case!
PEACE! :!:
Indian no question about it has superior technology in its grasp than Pakistan. India su-30mki compared to the F-16 are definitely super maneaverable and I personally have seen SU-30MK doing aerobatic maneavers in an Air Shows that are nothing compared to F-15E aerobatic maneavers.
Question is will the Indian pilots like the time 1965 and 71 are trained enough to handle those machines well enough.
In 1965 India had GNAT, MYSTERE fighter and all the good fighter jets (totaling 300)
compared to 78 F-86 sabres PAF had. a Lot of Pakistani pilots were given aircombat training on GNAT's in UK alongwith the Indian pilots.
But India's combat losses in the air were far greater than PAF in numbers. India lost approx 101 fighters comared to PAKistan's 23 fighter loses.
For india percentage loss was close to 33% and for Pakistan 31%. For a large Air Force like India the combat losses was huge.
1971 Indian air Force losses were still higher but PAF had more heavy losses in East Pakistan. BUT some Indian MiG-21 were mostly destroyed on the ground at Kalai Kunda by Mirage 3 and F-86 raids. An F-86 shot down a MiG 21, a MiG 21 with max speeds of Mach 2 and F-86 with max speed of 786 miles/hr. Once again it was F-86 pilots skill that helped him. Pilot Skillset was a factor in 1965 and 1971.
I am not saying that PAF pilots are gifted like Gen. Chuck Yeager. But the possiblity still exists that it is the man in the cockpit that matters the most than the machine.
I am sure Indian pilots will make use of their machine next time much better to refute my last statement for good.
One more, would YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO EVERYONE:
All the WEAPONS THAT INDIA HAS IN ITS INVENTORY, WHO ARE THEY GOING TO USE THEM AGAINST?.
INDIA and you yourself keep saying Pakistan will use their American supplied weapons against India but My question is all the 2200 strong air force that India has who are they going to use it against. India has no better sworn close enemy than Pakistan. PLease do not BS that it is China the danger.
China has no fool to occupy India which is already a large breeding ground for population explosion and AIDS. China is already big enough that it does not need any accesss to any other places plus China already has its problems with population.
I rest my case!
PEACE! :!:
Re: FC-1 Super 7
The FC-1 prototype is ready and is being currently tested at Chengdu's factory. A taxi run test was done a couple of days ago. :smokingc: To check out the report and pics go to www.sinodefence.com click on Airforce and then click on Fighters. There you will find link for FC-1.
The FC-1 prototype is ready and is being currently tested at Chengdu's factory. A taxi run test was done a couple of days ago. :smokingc: To check out the report and pics go to www.sinodefence.com click on Airforce and then click on Fighters. There you will find link for FC-1.
in the years to come, china. as a country full of potential and vigor, with diligent people and fast development, certainly will have more resources to develop its own advanced technology. china will certainly have more advanced fighter planes, but as a peace-loving country, china will only use them for self-defence. today, you have seen a divine-vessel, tomorrow, you certainly will see more. but, remember, the chinese astronaut showed a u.n flag, china, for the cause of the world. china doesn't intimidate its neighbor, china will not lay the blame of bomb explosion at the door of another.
Upgrades in Jf-17
What upgrades do u ppl like to see in Jf-17 aircraft????
Here is my opinion.
Engine,
The thrust to weight ratio of Jf-17 is 95:100 or 0.95. This is the reason why this aircraft will not be able to fly vertically upwards, and hence, it will not be able to drop a nuclear bomb. The thrust to weight ratio needs to be 1 or more in order to fly vertically upwards. There are rumours about France offering the M88 engines (Rafale engines) to Pakistan for Jf-17 but this engine gives 16,000 lbs of thrust only. The M88-3 engines will be a better option for this aircraft.
Speed,
Jf-17's speed is mach 1.6 which is quite less. The reasons could be lack of composite materials on its surface and powerful engine. The M88-3 engines which I mentioned above and composte materials installed may help the plane aquiring the speed of mach 1.8 or more.
Range,
Its range is unconfirmed. Some sources say that its maximum ferry range is 2,200 kms while other say its range is 3,000 kms. Lets assume its range as 3,000 kms. Its still less and it needs to be 3,200+ kms in order to attack deep into enemy's teritory and come back bacause PAF will also use this aircraft or strike missions. The idea of installing inflight refueling probe is even not too bad.
Hardpoints,
Number of hardpoints should be 9 or more in order to make it a long range aircraft and carry a verity of missiles and bombs. Also, this aircraft lacks FLIR pods so more hardpoints are needed to carry FLIR pod.
Gun,
Personally, I m not satisfied with its machine gun. Its carried the old Gsh 23 mm canon which was first carried by Russian Mig-19s. Its has a very low fire-rate(14 rounds/sec) compared to the fire-rate of guns of other fighters like Mig-29 (25 rounds/sec) and Gripen (30 rounds/sec). PAF should install the A-5s machine gun whose fire rate is 20 rounds/sec.
What do u think guys ???
Need sencible replies plzzz.
Thanx.
What upgrades do u ppl like to see in Jf-17 aircraft????
Here is my opinion.
Engine,
The thrust to weight ratio of Jf-17 is 95:100 or 0.95. This is the reason why this aircraft will not be able to fly vertically upwards, and hence, it will not be able to drop a nuclear bomb. The thrust to weight ratio needs to be 1 or more in order to fly vertically upwards. There are rumours about France offering the M88 engines (Rafale engines) to Pakistan for Jf-17 but this engine gives 16,000 lbs of thrust only. The M88-3 engines will be a better option for this aircraft.
Speed,
Jf-17's speed is mach 1.6 which is quite less. The reasons could be lack of composite materials on its surface and powerful engine. The M88-3 engines which I mentioned above and composte materials installed may help the plane aquiring the speed of mach 1.8 or more.
Range,
Its range is unconfirmed. Some sources say that its maximum ferry range is 2,200 kms while other say its range is 3,000 kms. Lets assume its range as 3,000 kms. Its still less and it needs to be 3,200+ kms in order to attack deep into enemy's teritory and come back bacause PAF will also use this aircraft or strike missions. The idea of installing inflight refueling probe is even not too bad.
Hardpoints,
Number of hardpoints should be 9 or more in order to make it a long range aircraft and carry a verity of missiles and bombs. Also, this aircraft lacks FLIR pods so more hardpoints are needed to carry FLIR pod.
Gun,
Personally, I m not satisfied with its machine gun. Its carried the old Gsh 23 mm canon which was first carried by Russian Mig-19s. Its has a very low fire-rate(14 rounds/sec) compared to the fire-rate of guns of other fighters like Mig-29 (25 rounds/sec) and Gripen (30 rounds/sec). PAF should install the A-5s machine gun whose fire rate is 20 rounds/sec.
What do u think guys ???
Need sencible replies plzzz.
Thanx.
GoldenEagle
New Member
Re: Upgrades in Jf-17
I hope wishes comes true in real world.
.95 T/W ratio is enough.Reason it is inferior to Su-30 in vertical climb is not T/W ratio, its because of the LEX featured wings, which create a lot of drag on the leading edge flaps. Obviously to undermine this flaw we would need additional thrust.
Range and hardpoints need to be increased.
Needs IFF and forward lookig phased array radar with an active range over AGP-77. No need for FLIR pod.
Dependable BVRAAM.
:smokingc:
I hope wishes comes true in real world.
.95 T/W ratio is enough.Reason it is inferior to Su-30 in vertical climb is not T/W ratio, its because of the LEX featured wings, which create a lot of drag on the leading edge flaps. Obviously to undermine this flaw we would need additional thrust.
Range and hardpoints need to be increased.
Needs IFF and forward lookig phased array radar with an active range over AGP-77. No need for FLIR pod.
Dependable BVRAAM.
:smokingc:
Oqaab said:What upgrades do u ppl like to see in Jf-17 aircraft????
Here is my opinion.
Engine,
The thrust to weight ratio of Jf-17 is 95:100 or 0.95. This is the reason why this aircraft will not be able to fly vertically upwards, and hence, it will not be able to drop a nuclear bomb. The thrust to weight ratio needs to be 1 or more in order to fly vertically upwards. There are rumours about France offering the M88 engines (Rafale engines) to Pakistan for Jf-17 but this engine gives 16,000 lbs of thrust only. The M88-3 engines will be a better option for this aircraft.
Speed,
Jf-17's speed is mach 1.6 which is quite less. The reasons could be lack of composite materials on its surface and powerful engine. The M88-3 engines which I mentioned above and composte materials installed may help the plane aquiring the speed of mach 1.8 or more.
Range,
Its range is unconfirmed. Some sources say that its maximum ferry range is 2,200 kms while other say its range is 3,000 kms. Lets assume its range as 3,000 kms. Its still less and it needs to be 3,200+ kms in order to attack deep into enemy's teritory and come back bacause PAF will also use this aircraft or strike missions. The idea of installing inflight refueling probe is even not too bad.
Hardpoints,
Number of hardpoints should be 9 or more in order to make it a long range aircraft and carry a verity of missiles and bombs. Also, this aircraft lacks FLIR pods so more hardpoints are needed to carry FLIR pod.
Gun,
Personally, I m not satisfied with its machine gun. Its carried the old Gsh 23 mm canon which was first carried by Russian Mig-19s. Its has a very low fire-rate(14 rounds/sec) compared to the fire-rate of guns of other fighters like Mig-29 (25 rounds/sec) and Gripen (30 rounds/sec). PAF should install the A-5s machine gun whose fire rate is 20 rounds/sec.
What do u think guys ???
Need sencible replies plzzz.
Thanx.
I think first step should be small and calculated. The makers of JF-17 should start from minimal upgrades and then gradually move on with upgrades to speed, hardpoints, etc. That way, they will learn alot and plus help them in the future developements which would be alot better.
between friends all is common
i hope our government together with our best friend-pakistan cooperate more and produce more advanced weapons to protect us. whatever china have, pakistan friends should have it too. for between friends all is common.
ullu, i respect your country, long live pakistan!
to tell you one thing: in china, everyone consider pakistan as china's best friend and india a belligerent country.
i hope our government together with our best friend-pakistan cooperate more and produce more advanced weapons to protect us. whatever china have, pakistan friends should have it too. for between friends all is common.
ullu, i respect your country, long live pakistan!
to tell you one thing: in china, everyone consider pakistan as china's best friend and india a belligerent country.