The Watcher
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
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The author of this report isn't chinese and agency thats reporting it is Spanish. So much for media bias. :roll
J-10 wins in dogfight against su-27
- Thread starter The Watcher
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The_Acumen
New Member
wrong mukul
it is perfectly reasonable for the J-10 to be more advance, as its already half a generation ahead. The basic Su-27/J-11 has relatively rudimentary avionics, the Chinese phase array radars on the J-8II and FBC-1 striker are already more advance than the Su-27's.
Thinking that continual Su-27/J-11 production means problems with the J-10 is incredibly simplistic. (So does production of the F-18 superhonet mean problems with the Raptor/ JSF etc?????)
Its both strategy and cost effectiveness. Since the CHinese have already bought the production licence and have the production line rolling, its only sensible to keep making the aircraft. Likely the Su-27/J-11 will be upgraded with local Chinese radars and engines. The WS-10 powerplant has already be shown in recent Chinese airshows, weighting less and having more power than its Russian counterpart.
The Russian Su-27 upgrade package which includes ground strike capabilites, have been thus far rejected by the Chinese, as the PLAAF want the J-11 for air-sup only. And integrating local sub-systems allow Chinese air to air missiles to be used. The J-10 is both air and ground capable, so slightly different roles, with the J-10 being more capable in this respect.
also, it is easy for amatuers in these forums to dismiss Chinese (or whatever country) media as mere propaganda. But for most analyst and semi-pros like myself, we think differently now, as some Chinese sources such as the Wen Wei Po closely connected to the PLA, cite credible info, from subs, to aircrafts, to deployment; and only to be picked by Janes' 6 months to a year later.
it is perfectly reasonable for the J-10 to be more advance, as its already half a generation ahead. The basic Su-27/J-11 has relatively rudimentary avionics, the Chinese phase array radars on the J-8II and FBC-1 striker are already more advance than the Su-27's.
Thinking that continual Su-27/J-11 production means problems with the J-10 is incredibly simplistic. (So does production of the F-18 superhonet mean problems with the Raptor/ JSF etc?????)
Its both strategy and cost effectiveness. Since the CHinese have already bought the production licence and have the production line rolling, its only sensible to keep making the aircraft. Likely the Su-27/J-11 will be upgraded with local Chinese radars and engines. The WS-10 powerplant has already be shown in recent Chinese airshows, weighting less and having more power than its Russian counterpart.
The Russian Su-27 upgrade package which includes ground strike capabilites, have been thus far rejected by the Chinese, as the PLAAF want the J-11 for air-sup only. And integrating local sub-systems allow Chinese air to air missiles to be used. The J-10 is both air and ground capable, so slightly different roles, with the J-10 being more capable in this respect.
also, it is easy for amatuers in these forums to dismiss Chinese (or whatever country) media as mere propaganda. But for most analyst and semi-pros like myself, we think differently now, as some Chinese sources such as the Wen Wei Po closely connected to the PLA, cite credible info, from subs, to aircrafts, to deployment; and only to be picked by Janes' 6 months to a year later.
The_Acumen, as soon as you make comments such as these then you leave yourself open to higher scrutiny.
People will be entitled to ask you to provide some supporting indication of capability.
Anyone can say that they have expertise or capability, the proof is in the sense of logic and reason that you use to state a position.
eg, I've worked in the defence sector for over 20 years, principally in aerospace and maritime. I'd have to say to you that from my perspective and a healthy number of my colleagues with similar or sector specific credentials, that the Su-2x and Su-3x generation aircraft are still considered the benchmark for "non-western" combat aircraft. (revolting term, but essentially its serves to compartmentalise the argument)
I'd disagree with some of your statements, but I am interested to see how you support them.
i have seen couple of pictures of the J-10 being fueled up the colour of the hull seams to be the same as the JF-17 (in the video section) why are they painted in this horrible colour they could paint it to give it alot better impression and is that a protective paint or some sort of plastic protective coat let me know what u think :?
I've only just managed to get back onto the forums after a few days away, hence I'm a bit late in responding to something I would normally address immediately.
Could everyone please refrain from using shorthanded descriptions of other nationalities and countries - it's unacceptable. It costs nothing to spend more time writing a nationality or race in a proper fashion. Expressions that are universally accepted as demeaning should not be used.
Hence, Chinks, Japs, Yanks, Paks, Polaks etc can be offensive expressions to people of those countries and should not be used out of courtesy to them.
Thanks all.
Could everyone please refrain from using shorthanded descriptions of other nationalities and countries - it's unacceptable. It costs nothing to spend more time writing a nationality or race in a proper fashion. Expressions that are universally accepted as demeaning should not be used.
Hence, Chinks, Japs, Yanks, Paks, Polaks etc can be offensive expressions to people of those countries and should not be used out of courtesy to them.
Thanks all.
mysterious
New Member
I think the 'yellow' thing is the real colour of the body of the aircraft and it will be painted something with grey! :help
hmm !? u realy think so.thanks for that. and another question the MFD's on the cockpit why have multiple ones when u can have one or two bigg ones which display everything lol i haev too many stupid questions that i can't find aswers on google. like the LCA that i have seen in the pictures has like loads and this is what i don't get why have tiny ones that replace analogue one :? :idea2 wouldn't it make more sence that u have one bigg screen area with better resolution that could display information in a more friendly manner why stick to the old traditional ways. ?
The trend in MFD's is to go to 2-3 screens. Some of the lead in fighter conversions done to the Hawk etc use only 3 screens. It makes sense to minimise clutter and be able to call up a screen that doesn't need to be always visible, eg the display comes up at a system prompt as an alert etc..adsH said:
Roger Smith
New Member
adsH said:
I assume the yellow paint is the original shade/color of the aluminium utilize for making JF-17. :idea:
mysterious
New Member
Yes it is to my understanding, as I saw some pics of a 'brand new' Eurofighter Typhoon being roled out of production and it had the same 'yellowish' colour and obviously it wasnt painted yet so I believe 'yellow' is the colour of the material used. :smokingc:
I went through the production line for the Australian Hornets many years ago, some of the panels were that ghastly yellow as well. It was a pre-prep primer.
darklegent
New Member
Hey plz guys no one is racist here the Americans are called yankees and so I called the Chinese..... Chinks. My sincerest apologies if I offended anyone.
PEACE TO ALL.
With the issue of the Yellow colour being used on test planes, with trainer jets and on factory fresh / refurbished jets. I put forward the point of visiblity.
The colour yellow is the easiest to spot with a varied combination of backgrounds. Normally that is the reason as to why it is used. I did come across the primer issue but then why paint part of the aircraft and leave a large section unpainted.... during painting of an aircraft big or small there is a scientific method of weight calculation for all the painted section (the issue of wieght balancing) but then discussing that wud be as good as opening up another thread here.
PEACE TO ALL.
With the issue of the Yellow colour being used on test planes, with trainer jets and on factory fresh / refurbished jets. I put forward the point of visiblity.
The colour yellow is the easiest to spot with a varied combination of backgrounds. Normally that is the reason as to why it is used. I did come across the primer issue but then why paint part of the aircraft and leave a large section unpainted.... during painting of an aircraft big or small there is a scientific method of weight calculation for all the painted section (the issue of wieght balancing) but then discussing that wud be as good as opening up another thread here.
Thats ok matey, but you should be aware that some Americans take great exception to the term "yank" and/or "yankees". If you called my Shaolin instructor a "chink" he would wrap your arms and legs around you like wet spaghetti and have you sitting on your backside faster than you saying "good morning sir".darklegent said:Hey plz guys no one is racist here the Americans are called yankees and so I called the Chinese..... Chinks. My sincerest apologies if I offended anyone.
PEACE TO ALL.
darklegent
New Member
:lol2 :rotfl
That gr8 humor gf....... cheers mate.
1st of all china isnt really what we call a quality = quality ppl they are more quality = quantity so im not even shock at all when their su 27 dont do well, by the time J 10 takes off in the front lines the same shit will happend again, so you cant really say that su 27 is inferior to j 10 and also cause they are reds, they tend to say that the J 10 can win against the F 22 raptor and :cop :cop [Mod edit:NO RACIST REMARKS ALLOWED ON THIS WEBSITE. Keep that in mind next time you post.] :cop :cop
darklegent
New Member
Paxter, buddy thuo I arn't a Pakistani plz stop calling them - Pakis. U sound racist if not rude.
The reason that the Chinese say that the J-10 is superior is mere propaganda to contain the failed efforts to develop a subsitute to the J7 (a la Mig 21). The Su-27 that the Chinese operate is by the way interenally called J-11....... may be this link below will explain things better.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/su27.asp
I was wondering if the J-10 was more advanced then the Su-27 then why call it J-11 which in normal terms wud be more advanced after all thats the way most products are numbered.
Another point that goes against the Chinese is that the Russians may sell the best of the fighter jet that does amazing maneuvors but in real time combat scenarios wat actually matters is state of art combat enviroment gathering and processing gizmos. This wud include the primary radar and the EW suite. Of course there are alot more of other equipment but my main point is that the Russians, or as a matter of fact any well developed arms fareing nation wud never want to give technology to China due the fear of third party transfer after copying the original technology. To my knowledge most of the Chinese systems in either of the forces are copies or derivatives of equipment bought earlier from the Russians or the Europeans. The Isreali too have learned thier lesson and are much more careful in tranfering any new technologies. I wish I cud tell u more of the Isreali-Chinese connection, but unfortunately the Isreali contractors that have been moved out of China to Vietnam, Romania, India and elsewhere do not speak a god damn word of their work.
Personally I think that the whole lot is the Mossad :rotfl
nfloorl: Just jokin.
Paxter, watch your lingo. Pakistanis do not like being called Pakis as much as Indians don't like being called bhind.../ind... Give respect get respect concept in effect ON defencetalk.com so make sure you respect the other side if you want some back.
Back to the topic.
Back to the topic.
darklegent said:Paxter, buddy thuo I arn't a Pakistani plz stop calling them - Pakis. U sound racist if not rude.
The reason that the Chinese say that the J-10 is superior is mere propaganda to contain the failed efforts to develop a subsitute to the J7 (a la Mig 21). The Su-27 that the Chinese operate is by the way interenally called J-11....... may be this link below will explain things better.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/su27.asp
I was wondering if the J-10 was more advanced then the Su-27 then why call it J-11 which in normal terms wud be more advanced after all thats the way most products are numbered.
Another point that goes against the Chinese is that the Russians may sell the best of the fighter jet that does amazing maneuvors but in real time combat scenarios wat actually matters is state of art combat enviroment gathering and processing gizmos. This wud include the primary radar and the EW suite. Of course there are alot more of other equipment but my main point is that the Russians, or as a matter of fact any well developed arms fareing nation wud never want to give technology to China due the fear of third party transfer after copying the original technology. To my knowledge most of the Chinese systems in either of the forces are copies or derivatives of equipment bought earlier from the Russians or the Europeans. The Isreali too have learned thier lesson and are much more careful in tranfering any new technologies. I wish I cud tell u more of the Isreali-Chinese connection, but unfortunately the Isreali contractors that have been moved out of China to Vietnam, Romania, India and elsewhere do not speak a god damn word of their work.
Personally I think that the whole lot is the Mossad :rotfl
Hi sure your rite in your place but they never said J-10 was more advance than a su27 they only said it defeated a su27 in a DOGFIGHT!!, which would make me think that, that should be the right given the fact that the J-10 was built to take on an F-16 and the fact that it is smaller and lighter Wouldn't you agree!! i think there is a misunderstanding here Mate!!
the reason why they are building Su 27 are because J-10 is not a combat proven craft but the su 27 has a proven record the j-10 is in serial production but the su-27 is in serial prod so in the sort run SU 27 is badly needed for china AF