AFAIk J10 is equiped with PL12's (R77's) while J11 is still only equiped with R27's. Considering that i dont think said exersises illuminate anything on said platforms capabilities, it would have been a shooting range for the J10 for that reason alone.
Untill we know the capabilities of the radar & combat management system, we really cant say. It might be great, personally i'm scheptical.
Hmm no. The J-11s and I mean the "classic" ones, not the J-11B, are confirmed by media report (Jane's) and in photos to be R-77 capable. Their radars have an additional computing module to support extra radar modes and the R-77 missile.
Now what did they say about red flag blue flag
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157
Got a link on that one bud?
You have to follow up on chinese Su-27 upgrade reports by official Russian suppliers.
I have no idea what you are trying to prove. Do PLAAF train the same way as IAF? Both planes can be produced in China independently of Russia. If J-11 is indeed superior then PLAAF will shift it's attention toward J-11B production. The Shenyang lobby has much more influence with PLAAF than Chengdu ever did. Is there even any need to justify staging engagements ending in favor of J-10?
Was there a number of sets ordered, published? I mean did they just do the prototype work on a couple examples or is it a fleet wide upgrade?
No need to get defenceive, you had a piece of information i hadn't read and i was asking were i could find it thats all. The "bud" was meant to let you know i wasnt questioning your statement but asking form information.
It was a fleet wide upgrade, at least about more than a hundred sets were ordered. Note that this is not the full Su-27SKM type upgrade, it only adds R-77 capability and an MFD, it doesn't change the entire dashboard layout to the SM/SKM style, or add TV guided PGM capability which requires another subsystem module.
I can be your buddy too if you want
Without knowing the particluar's of the individual exercises, they dont really shed light on the capability of the aircraft or organizations envolved. Look at cope india as an example. An exercise designed to help train Indian pilots, with ristrictive ROE's placed on USAF F15's, and becasie IAF "won" (which was the point) many have used this as "evidence" that the SU 30 (not even MKI's) are much better than F15C's, that indian pilots are better and the that the IAF is a more capable organization. I mean even indians should find such a conclusion ludicris (at least reasonable ones).
I have a Kanwa article that interviewed sukhoi and mentionned 70 su-27sk (basically of them) and the earliest J-11 have been upgraded to fire R-77 and use N-001VE. This of course does not count the 3rd batch of 26 ubk that already had N-001VE.
They have used many different scenario between J-10 and sk/mkk. They've done WVR and BVR exercises. They've had exercises where flankers far outnumbered J-10s. The reported figures for different exercises generally had really lopsided results for J-10s. Actually, according to big shrimps on Chinese bbs, the results have never been anything but lopsided in J-10's favour. And it's easy to see why if you get to follow the planes in plaaf. Of course, they've got J-11B now, which uses the more powerful WS-10A engine, same (might be newer) generation of avionics/radar to J-10 + PL-12, so the battle should be more even. But, they can't possibly buy anymore su-30 or build more J-11A, because it's just that much inferior to J-10.
of course the uninformed may just see this as excuses.......(and ozzy has in no way come to this conclusion through the f22's recent losses against the typhoon during exercises........in fact im sure the us pilots wern't even trying)
Ouch your aggressive for sure, its all relative, look at what i was replying to genius, what i meant was that just mentioning a exercise doesnot prove anything at-all.
and you believe that kind of rubbish report? The reports of J-10 whipping flankers have appeared in many official reports and confirmed by numerous interviews and big shots. There was a report a while back about su-27 beating J-10 which turned out to be a complete hoax.
F-22's losses to typhoon? when was this. And it shouldn't be too surprising that typhoon can get the odd kills on super hornets.
"Unconfirmed" you see. The story was aired by a UK reporter. Aparently the yanks were soooo embaressed that typhoon trounced raptor that they did a cover up becasue if the public knew how much money they had wasted on 5th gen when they just could have joined the Eurofighter consortium, there would have been massive public outrage (had to protect the integrity of the state you know).
nfloorl:hey,dont shoot the messenger.....i only deal in facts with reliable sources;"Unconfirmed" you see. The story was aired by a UK reporter. Aparently the yanks were soooo embaressed that typhoon trounced raptor that they did a cover up becasue if the public knew how much money they had wasted on 5th gen when they just could have joined the Eurofighter consortium, there would have been massive public outrage (had to protect the integrity of the state you know).
Apparently this total devistateing "loss" jaffo is refering too which shows the inferiority of the raptor was an unconfirmed "rumor" that a typhoon got a lock on the F-22 at "supriseingly long range" and "dominated" the WVR fight because of its maneuverability and HOBS missile capability. All great news for you typhoon fanboys but i have only a couple of questions: 1) at what range was the thyphoon killed by an AMRAAM or was the F-22A "out of ammo" or not alowed to take a maximum range AMRAAm shot? 2) As for the WVR fight how does this shed any light on the platforms capabilities when one is HOBS heater equiped and the other is not (anyone familiiar with the capabilities of the AIM 9L vs the AIM 132 should now exactly why the F-22A may have lost in a real dogfight)? What do you think the value of such a report is?????