Is NAG really the most advanced?

Soldier

New Member
NAG test-fired successfully

Hyderabad , June 14

INDIA has successfully test fired the world's most advanced third generation anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) — NAG and thus joins a select group of countries.Defence scientists achieved a direct hit of a target placed at a distance of two km, as the NAG missile was fired from the BMP II-based NAG missile carrier (NAMICA), on June 10, from the Shamirpet Field Firing Range on the outskirts of Hyderabad.

NAG is the most IT-intensive missile and defence scientists hope to demonstrate the trials of the anti-tank weapon against real moving tanks to the Indian Army during August-September, 2004, according to Dr Prahlada, Director, Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), the Hyderabad-based lab, directing five top missile projects of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

NAG's successful test flight on June 10 makes it the only missile in the world today to have four distinctive capabilities rolled in one and thus is most advanced, Dr Prahlada told Business Line.

The capabilities include imaging infrared technology, which helps in distinguishing a tank from other vehicles accurately; ability to hit a reach of 4 km; fire and forget feature and finally an on-board missile guidance to ensure that the weapon hits the heavily armoured battle tank from top and inflict maximum damage, the DRDL Director explained.

NAG's imaging-infrared homing seeker makes it effective during both day and night operations. It also has a tandem heat warhead designed to defeat modern and futuristic tanks.

The NAMICA-NAG system will carry 12 NAG missiles, making it a very potent anti-armour weapon for the mechanised forces of the Indian Army.

Mr S.S. Mishra, the project director, scientists from the DRDO's Missile Complex in Hyderabad, officers from Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), Chennai, and the Indian Army took part in the milestone test.

The NAG missile has hit static targets with five times accuracy and some more tests will be done to exhibit its full reach and features, Mr Mishra said.
The Indian Army requires a few thousand NAGs, each of which costs approximately Rs 50 lakh, when produced indigenously, Dr Prahlada said. Hyderabad-based defence public sector unit, Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), which manufacturers the country's range of missile will also make the NAG missile. Several PSUs and the private industry will participate in the fabricating and assembly of key components.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/06/15/stories/2004061502510600.htm


Capabilities of NAG:

1.The Focal Plane Arry device of Nag.

2. The most IT-intensive missile. Onboard real time processor with fast and efficient algorithms, compact sensor package and electric actuation system, digital autopilot and high immunity to counter measures, make this a formidable missile.

3. “Fire and forget†capabilities : Its new state-of-the-art Imaging Infra Red (IIR) homing guidance system has lock-on-before-launch capability (for day and night operation) which helps in distinguishing a tank from other vehicles accurately.

4. “Top attack†capabilities: When the missile reaches close to the target, it has an on-board missile guidance to ensure that the weapon hits the heavily armoured battle tank from top and inflict maximum damage.

5. It has a tandem HEAT warhead designed to defeat modern and futuristic tanks.

6. The missile incorporated into the guidance system, with a CCD camera.

7. Nag is the first anti-tank missile which has a complete fiberglass structure. It has high strength composite(fiberglass) airframe with foldable wings and fins.

8. A smokeless nitramine based propellant has been developed for the Nag.

At last, it is the only missile in the world today to have four distinctive capabilities rolled in one, thus it is most advanced.


I guess now we can do TOT of NAG to US for exchange of TOT of F-22 Raptor to India. :D: :D: :D:
 

Salman78

New Member
Yet another [Admin Edit: Stay in your limits and respect others, if you want them to respect you] article about the 'most' 'best' 'heighest' 'top' blah blah blah made by india. rest of the world has no knowledge of making anti tank missiles and nothing can and ever will even come close to NAG.

give me a break. the author of this childish piece should do everyone else a favor and shoot himself. its full of self indulgence & nationalistic propagenda. no wonder it came from hindubusiness website. duh
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
It may be a new missile, but definetely cannot call itself most advanced. As new generations made both by West and Russia are battle-proven while this missile, however advanced they claim it to be, is just talk on paper. This article reminds me of the earlier BrahMos missile post I read from globalsecurity.org, turns out many things they say in that article was pure propoganda.
 

Salman78

New Member
mr Admin. where did i cross the limit and how did i disrespect anyone ? My msg was intended to the person who wrote this article. On 2nd thought, ur clarification would be useless so nevermind.
 

Soldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Salman78 said:
Yet another [Admin Edit: Stay in your limits and respect others, if you want them to respect you] article about the 'most' 'best' 'heighest' 'top' blah blah blah made by india. rest of the world has no knowledge of making anti tank missiles and nothing can and ever will even come close to NAG.

give me a break. the author of this childish piece should do everyone else a favor and shoot himself. its full of self indulgence & nationalistic propagenda. no wonder it came from hindubusiness website. duh
Salman, I never intended to post this article to highlight any indian achievement but only so that others could post their point of view and argue about it. I will not say under Patriotic fervour that if IT REALLY IS THE BEST?
Also it was fun intended at the article when I said that we can do ToT to US. No need to get worked up mate and learn something from others like Pathfinder or for that matter Mysterious too.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Soldier said:
At last, it is the only missile in the world today to have four distinctive capabilities rolled in one, thus it is most advanced.
It might be the only fibreglass sheathed missile (others are carbon fibre/kevlar), but I think there will be some substantial dispute about it being the only one to have quad capabilities.

Hasn't DRDO heard of Javelin??

I'm not trying to diminish the success of NAG as it obviously does the job it's designed for, but the article has a bit of poetic license attached to it. Javelin also has been test fired on Rotors and UAV's. It's done top down attacks on helo's which makes life very very nervous for the helo pilot. It is literally a shoot and scoot so that the shooters can avoid acoustic detection systems.

NAG is no doubt a sophisticated MANPAT launch system - but it's not the most sophisticated.

I'm guessing that the journo doesn't have a military background as such.
 

XEROX

New Member
How will the impact of the missiles be substantial, if it is sheathed with Kevlar, Gf0012

Kevlar is 5x stronger then steel dude???
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
How will the impact of the missiles be substantial, if it is sheathed with Kevlar, Gf0012

Kevlar is 5x stronger then steel dude???
No, what I was saying that the NAG is not the only missile with the four capabilities mentioned. (thats what I meant by substantial - ie it could be disputed)

"Impact" did not refer to the effects of a kinetic strike.
 

XEROX

New Member
I see, but what about if the tank itself was constructed out of Kevlar??

Would that be viable??

(properties of kevlar being lighter and 5x stronger then steel)
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
PJ-10 BrahMos said:
I see, but what about if the tank itself was constructed out of Kevlar??

Would that be viable??

(properties of kevlar being lighter and 5x stronger then steel)
It's definitely possible, but the issue is whether it's needed at an engineering level. If the terminal speed at impact doesn't require or cause excessive friction, then the fibreglass should be more than adequate. Kevlar would be overengineering.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
RealIndian said:
Hasn't DRDO heard of Javelin??
It has 2.5 km range on the other NAG has 6 km range.
The extra range is of course a bonus. ;) I think you'll find that all of the data re MANPAT engagements shows a high proprtion are sub 2km.

The other factors are:

- Battlefield acoustic detection systems would make a 5-6km launch very unattractive. Esp if the system is slaved electronically to a direct fire response.

- Tankgunners will start to have problems visually acquiring a target (unassisted) beyond 4km. A MANPAT shooter will also by association suffer similarly from unassisted visual identification and laying.

I'm not saying that it can't be done properly - just that the shooter will find it progressively harder.

Of course, that can be reduced if the MANPAT can take a feed off of a UAV.
But, any LOS shot on open range would be very butt clenching. ;)
 

Soldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
gf0012-aust said:
RealIndian said:
Hasn't DRDO heard of Javelin??
It has 2.5 km range on the other NAG has 6 km range.
The extra range is of course a bonus. ;) I think you'll find that all of the data re MANPAT engagements shows a high proprtion are sub 2km.

The other factors are:

- Battlefield acoustic detection systems would make a 5-6km launch very unattractive. Esp if the system is slaved electronically to a direct fire response.

- Tankgunners will start to have problems visually acquiring a target (unassisted) beyond 4km. A MANPAT shooter will also by association suffer similarly from unassisted visual identification and laying.

I'm not saying that it can't be done properly - just that the shooter will find it progressively harder.

Of course, that can be reduced if the MANPAT can take a feed off of a UAV.
But, any LOS shot on open range would be very butt clenching. ;)
GF, here are the specifications of NAAG. The effective range of launch is 4 Kms instead of 5-6 as said before. Also can you tell me about any other Anti-Tank missile with this type of specifications and having all other 4 muxed into the one system?

Nag is a third- generation "fire and forget" anti-tank guided missile with a range of 4 to 6 kilometers. Nag can be mounted on an infantry combat vehicle and helicopter launched version of Nag is also available.

Nag is a third generation anti-tank missile system with “fire and forget†and “top attack†capabilities. Capable of defeating modern armour, Nag uses Imaging Infra-Red (IIR) guidance having both day and night capability. The state-of-the-art Imaging Infra Red homing guidance system has lock-on-before-launch capability for day and night operation.

A smokeless nitramine based propellant has been developed for the Nag. The missile is carried either on “NAMICA†(Traced ICV) or the Advanced Light Helicopter. Its high strength composite airframe with foldable wings and fins, onboard real time processor with fast and efficient algorithms, compact sensor package and electric actuation system, digital autopilot and high immunity to counter measures, make this a formidable missile.

Both Army and Air Force versions are being tested separately. For the Army, the missiles will be carried by specialist carrier vehicles equipped with a thermal imager for target acquisition. It can carry tour missiles at a time. For the Air Force, a nose-mounted thermal imaging system has been developed for guiding the missile's trajectory. A twin launcher for the Advanced Light Helicopter and a single launcher for Cheetah helicopter have also been successfully developed.

India's Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP) was launched in July 1983. Initially, it had a budget of around Rs 400 crore, but it has since been revised Rs 800 crore. The major programs under the IGMDP are the development of missiles including Agni, Prithvi, Akash, Trishul and the Nag. The Sagarika and the Surya have since been added to the IGMDP.

As of 1998 18 flight trails had been conducted, though it had yet to enter the production/induction phase. Two Nag missiles were launched satisfactorilyJune 21, 2002 at 1015 hrs and 1300 hrs from Interim Test Range, Balasore. The trajectory of both trials was fully tracked through out the flight and telemetry data has been received. These were the 43rd and 44th test launches of the Nag missile.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Soldier, I was wondering about the 5-6 km range. It did sound odd when you consider what a tank main gunner can "see". 4km on LOS gets very very difficult to aim at. Qualifying main gunners (US) have to shoot a 1sqM target at that range unassisted - and it's not easy.

The main missile that covers all 4 parameters suggested before is the Javelin. Tests were also being made on Eryx. There has also been a mini MLRS development which can be fired out of a mortar.
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
Told you something about the article doesn't sound right. 5 to 6km, I had trouble finding a target beyond 2km on TOW.

Indian articles often times over-estimated their weapon system's capability(So as many other nations), maybe the writters is no expert on defence industry or just being patriotic.
 

RealIndian

New Member
GF, here are the specifications of NAAG. The effective range of launch is 4 Kms instead of 5-6 as said before. Also can you tell me about any other Anti-Tank missile with this type of specifications and having all other 4 muxed into the one system?

But BR says this:
The mmW seeker, on the other hand, is intended to operate as an optional system that can replace the IIR passive seeker as a module. Also incorporated into the guidance system, is a CCD camera. The missile has a weight of 42 kg and can engage targets at ranges up to 6 km. The Nag is claimed to be first anti-tank missile which has a complete fiberglass structure [5].

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Nag.html
The missile has a range of 4 to 6 km and is capable of penetrating most types of armour. Powered by a solid propellant, Nag can be fired from a tracked vehicle or a helicopter.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1398121373.cms

Indian articles often times over-estimated their weapon system's capability(So as many other nations), maybe the writters is no expert on defence industry or just being patriotic.
This is from a western source.

Indian Firm To Start Building Anti-tank Missile

from DEFENCENEWS.COM
Posted 17 June, 2004 12:01 EST
India will begin serial production of its Nag anti-tank missile by the end of the year, following the missile’s successful trial June 10 at a Hyderabad field firing range.

A senior Indian Defence Ministry official said June 17 that state-owned Bharat Dynamics, Hyderabad, will manufacture Nag missiles, likely to cost around $100,000 each. The Indian Army has a requirement for more than 1,000 anti-tank missiles in the next three years.

A scientist at the government’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), where the Nag was designed and developed, said it is the world’s most advanced third-generation anti-tank guided missile — and the most information technology-intensive missile.

The Nag is expected to supercede Indian production of the Russian-made Konkours and Euromissile Milan M2 anti-tank missiles.

************
This is from MOD website..............

Two Nag missiles have been launched satisfactorily today at 1015 hrs and 1300 hrs from Interim Test Range, Balasore. The trajectory of both trials was fully tracked through out the flight and telemetry data has been received. The detailed analysis is in progress. These were the 43rd and 44th test launches of the Nag missile. Nag is a third generation anti-tank missile system with “fire and forget†and “top attack†capabilities. The state-of-the-art Imaging Infra Red homing guidance system has lock-on-before-launch capability for day and night operation. A smokeless nitramine based propellant has been developed for the Nag. The missile is carried either on “NAMICA†(Traced ICV) or the Advanced Light Helicopter. Its high strength composite airframe with foldable wings and fins, onboard real time processor with fast and efficient algorithms, compact sensor package and electric actuation system, digital autopilot and high immunity to counter measures, make this a formidable missile.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
RealIndian, my premise is that if NAG can travel 5-6 km then it is an optical enganced/assisted shot.

The issue of certifying tank gunners at speed on specific sized targets does not alter the outcome, be it Leo2A6, Abrams A2, Merkava IV, Japanese Type 90, T98 etc... It would be incredibly difficult.

Have you even been on a gun range and tried to line up a 1sqm target in a tank?? Without magnification it is almost impossible unless you've got eyes like an eagle and the reflexes of a mongoose.

6km would put it outside the range of any human eye to determine a structural aiming point. The 1sqm targetting point used to qualify western tank gunners is used for a reason - it means that the shooter can effectively target and engage a known weak area on the enemy tank. At 6-8ks you will not see any discriminating features - and thus the shots success rate will become less - unless the MANPAT has the explosive power of an MLRS - shooting blind will be awfully optimistic.

Thats why the majority of MANPAT kills are 2km and less. It's why there are very few tanks that have done 4km+ tank to tank kills (only Chally2, Abrams and Merkava 3 have achieved that).

At 6-8 K's the best way to kill a tank at ground level is by grid saturation by either Arty, V Heavy vehicle mounted mortars or MLRS.

If NAG has achieved that level of success then congratulations are in order - but I question the utility and practicality of it when far better methods (distance and probability kill levels) are available to kill a tank at that range
 

echo501

New Member
Have a few questions about the NAG.

Does it have a minimum range?
What is it's inflight speed?
What is the warhead diameter?
Does it have a variety of warheads? Is it single, tandem, HE, Rod, or FAE?
Any guestimates on it's armor penetration?


Thanks in advance!

Kenny
 
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