Doesn't matter. Problems don't magically disappear because you have some oil. Firstly, oil revenues are finite. Iraqs oil revenues, per person, at current oil prices, are not huge. They wouldn't pay for (e.g.) the British health service. And even if Iraq had bottomless pit of money, the mere possession of it wouldn't resolve the operational problems of a complicated supply chain.
Iraq Buys F-16s?
- Thread starter Almaleki
- Start date
Area of Iraq over 437000 sq km, UK 245000 sq km. 1.8 times as big.
dragonfire
New Member
UK - 244,820 km2
Iraq - 438,317 km2
as per wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_kingdom
For the rest you havent obviously read mine or other posts
dragonfire
New Member
Ryan the way this would work is when you counter facts with facts/ sources which then can be validated/verified, besides i see a senior member also countering wht you are stating
While I am not well acquainted with the situation on Iraq (compared to some other DT forum members), I would think that one of their greatest challenges in rebuilding their air force is that of human resources. It is not just the narrow issue of a platform purchase. If they train pilots and air crew and cannot retain these professionals, they will be back to square one.
Remember the old TV show, the $6 million dollar man?
Training each pilot is at least a million dollar cost item (to complete advanced jet training alone before becoming an operational pilot). The training of a squadron leader costs much more. Beyond logistics (which is a basic test of military competence), I happen to think the pilot/war fighter is as important to the military capability equation as the platform choice. The systems and platform choices that a country invests in must give coherence to the pilot/war fighter in real capability terms.
In Iraq's case, their 'kong fu' master/teacher is the USAF, so they better use what their 'kong fu' master/teacher is using.
If Iraq buys JF-17s, how is their 'kong fu' master/teacher going to teach them on the specific fighter tactics? Someone will have to write all the training manuals/materials (for the specific fighter type tactics) and even develop a simulator for the JF-17.
Let's just give one over simplified example. Most people would agree that the purchase of simulators are important to pilot training. I'll just cite 3 benefits to having simulators (there are more benefits than that):
(i) it saves on training costs (no need to gas up an actual fighter);
(ii) it enhances safety (for rookie pilots); and
(iii) it enables your pilot to train for dangerous scenarios without risking a fighter plane.
(ii) it enhances safety (for rookie pilots); and
(iii) it enables your pilot to train for dangerous scenarios without risking a fighter plane.
It would not be cost effective to invest in a single simulator if each Iraqi squadron (of the 2 squadrons Iraq is preparing to initially stand-up) was using a different fighter platform.
Take for instance, India's one aircraft type (as dragonfire had confirmed), the 230x Su-30MKI (for the hi portion of their hi-low mix of fighters) outnumbers Singapore's total fighter numbers (in our 7 fighter squadrons). The problems faced by India and Pakistan are not applicable to Iraq, Singapore or Malaysia.
That is why I am critical of Malaysia's choices (in contrast to India's or Pakistan's choices). Would you (as a country) buy 1 simulator for 8 planes? Another different simulator for the next 15 planes? And then another for the next 18 planes? This sort of variety adds unnecessary costs and complexity that has a net effect of reducing capability.
We can address the M1/T-72 issue directly in the other thread. It will merit a separate and different response. Ask the question there. I'll reply with my thoughts there (for whatever they are worth).
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What projection was the world map on? Unless it was a true equal area projection (which will distort the shapes), or a globe, it can't be trusted to accurately show areas. And judging accurately (or anything like) the relative areas of different shapes by eye is almost impossible to do.
Those Wiki figures are the official figures for both countries, & they are found in every official source you care to look at, e.g. the UNSO database. Nobody disagrees with them, except for a fraction of 1% on the Iraq figure, mostly due to border disputes. With satellite mapping, anyone can (& does) check them. The US govt, for example, publishes its own estimates, & they agree pretty well with the Iraqi figure, & precisely with the UK.
National area figures can't be faked. Except where affected by border disputes, they're not things you can debate.
@Schumacher,
I was reading the thread again and I have to say I like swerve's reply much better than my long winded posts.
The short reply is as follows:
(i) choose the simplest and shortest route to acquire a capability; and
(ii) don't make life more difficult than necessary for your own armed forces (in this case, the Iraqi air force).
(ii) don't make life more difficult than necessary for your own armed forces (in this case, the Iraqi air force).
BTW, my favourate Chinese platform is the J-10 (see link on SibNIA's role). While China's ability to master military technology must not be underestimated, they are not always the most suitable platform solution.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #50
well i meant Spaces between Us and You << indeed the Only thing i hate in Singapore is that they are An Ally for Israel ,, which is and Iran My Primary Enemies ......
well the 36 Fighter is Just the Start for a Bigger Plan ...as 36 for 2011 and 54 per year untill 2015 = 252 Fighter
WHAT !!!!! we Ordered 60 COIN Attack Plane which is the AT-6B Armed Plane >> 36 on the second and 24 on the First .... Check the DCSA
I am From Basra
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #51
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #52
Hello ,, AGAIN you are interested in Iraqi Army geeeeeeee
ONE Sentence Answer :
We Dont Buy Russian but i really think we Must Cuz that will let us Define Our Weapons without Know Of USA and that will be without the Knowledge of Israel .... Which Know all about American Supplied Arabic Countries ... who Dont have a Chance against
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #53
That will Be Sured ,, But it will be better to Defend your Land with your Own Military NOT OTHERS ,, as they will need Pay for that ....
well the Iraqis are Buying it freshly NEW so why would we m I mean Egyptian Did and they Dont Have a Good Air Force now .....
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #54
nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:nfloorl:we are Bigger than you two Times and you what a small country well UAE is a small Country and thay Have one of the Best Artillary Squadrons on the World and the Most Advanced F-16 Which is B 60 and is Much Better that America Does Have .... and willing to buy Rafale ....................................... Believe me its a hot ZOne
You say you hate Singapore for our ties to Israel. I am very disappointed with your limited view point.
Are you aware that Singapore has a significant Muslim minority of approximately 14% (a significant number of which are Malay and Indian Muslims)? And that we, as a country have taken great strides towards racial and religious harmony. Further, two of my good Chinese friends have converted to Islam and I have many more Muslim friends. Why don't you read more? :lul
Like many other ASEAN countries (including Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei), Singapore is a member of the Non-Aligned Movement (so officially we are not allies with Israel).
Why single out Singapore's relationship with Israel for criticism? What about the other countries (including Muslim majority countries)?
Certain Muslim countries like Turkey and Indonesia (Searcher UAVs, rifles and other equipment) also buy Israeli equipment. Trade volume between Turkey and Israel was $2.6 billion in 2007 and some suggest at least $1.8 billion of this can be attributed to military equipment trade... In fact, Turkey and Israel are conducting joint military exercises (reportedly directed against Syria, their mutual enemy) and have a strong partnership in terms of military equipment and arms. Further, both Turkey and Israel have various defence agreements in various areas, including:
(i) Security and Secrecy;
(ii) Military Training Co-operation; and
(iii) Defence Industry Co-operation.
(ii) Military Training Co-operation; and
(iii) Defence Industry Co-operation.
Are you aware that Singapore (in our own small way) was also contributing to reconstruction efforts in Iraq and also provided some training to Iraqi policemen and the Iraqi navy?
On 12 Feb 2009, our Defence Minister explained that Singapore had made multiple deployments of naval vessels, KC-135 tanker aircraft and C-130 transport aircraft in Iraq since 2003. Did you know that 998 Singaporeans (some of whom have served multiple tours) have served in reconstruction efforts for Iraq?
Where did you get the 252 Fighter number? This is a very large number of fighter aircraft. Does it make sense? Please provide the source.
IIRC Egypt was not supplied with the Amraam. However, please note that UAE and Jordan have purchased or has ordered the Amraam.
Thank you for letting me know.I am From Basra
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
You say you hate Singapore for our ties to Israel. I am very disappointed with you limited view point.
Are you aware that Singapore has a significant Muslim minority of approximately 14% (a significant number of which are Malay and Indian Muslims)? And that we, as a country have taken great strides towards racial and religious harmony. Further, two of my good Chinese friends have converted to Islam and I have many more Muslim friends. Why don't you read more? :lul
Like many other ASEAN countries (including Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei), Singapore is a member of the Non-Aligned Movement (so officially we are not allies with Israel).
Why single out Singapore's relationship with Israel for criticism. What about the other countries (including Muslim majority countries)?
Certain Muslim countries like Turkey and Indonesia (Searcher UAVs, rifles and other equipment) also buy Israeli equipment. Trade volume between Turkey and Israel was $2.6 billion in 2007 and some suggest at least $1.8 billion of this can be attributed to military equipment trade... In fact, Turkey and Israel are conducting joint military exercises (reportedly directed against Syria, their mutual enemy) and have a strong partnership in terms of military equipment and arms. Further, both Turkey and Israel have various defence agreements in various areas, including:
(i) Security and Secrecy;
(ii) Military Training Co-operation; and
(iii) Defence Industry Co-operation.
Are you aware that Singapore (in our own small way) was also contributing to reconstruction efforts in Iraq and also provided some training to Iraqi policemen and the Iraqi navy?
On 12 Feb 2009, our Defence Minister explained that Singapore had made multiple deployments of naval vessels, KC-135 tanker aircraft and C-130 transport aircraft in Iraq since 2003. Did you know that 998 Singaporeans (some of whom have served multiple tours) have served in reconstruction efforts for Iraq?
Where did you get the 252 Fighter number? This is a very large number of fighter aircraft. Does it make sense? Please provide the source.
IIRC Egypt was not supplied with the Amraam. However, please note that UAE and Jordan have purchased or has ordered the Amraam.
Thank you for letting me know.
Hi Again ,,
I am more Likely to Arabian Nation Not Islamic one cuz Muslims Dont Have Anything Against Israel Just Iran ,, But Iran Hate Arab .... so I Dont say I hate Singapore But i say the Only thing i hate ,, i mean I like Turkey But i hate that they Co-Produce with Israel ,, Although i like America and they are the Big Devil For us .... and i like Singapore indeed ,,,
Oh please Israel Send Merc to train Iraqis ... and Mossad for Intelligence that Day i saw an Explosion Targets Mossad Operator ......
But its still a great Start ....
Check The wiki and Every Source ,, I had one about the 252 But i cant Find It ,, Search for it
lets Hope they do give us the Aims