Iran planning to send ships to the Atlantic Coast
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Sampanviking
Banned Member
I am surprised; given the constant chorus about Iranian desires to build Nuclear Weapons, that nobody has considered this move from an Iranian first strike perspective, or indeed its subsequent potential to undermine the rationale for America's Missile Defence project.
Today its Iran talking about the East Coast, tomorrow it could be North Korea off the West. I also remember the mysterious contrail (was it last year already?) seen off the Californian Coast.
Today its Iran talking about the East Coast, tomorrow it could be North Korea off the West. I also remember the mysterious contrail (was it last year already?) seen off the Californian Coast.
Kilo class boats acquired in the 1990's.
Yes, soon someone might raise the possibility of the Iranians firing a nuclear or chemical tipped Scud from the deck of a frigate. Or that they might have dozens of remote controlled planes able to drop anthrax spores.
I'm just amazed that something so insignificant as the Iranians announcing that they sending a couple of ships on a long range patrol has attracted some much attention and interest here at DT. What would be the reaction, in the future if China announces that it will be sending PLAN ships on regular deployments around the world, including of the U.S. coast and the English Channel to ''contribute'' to global security
The difference is that the Iranians have been active in supplying , equiping, training and even leading insurgents in attacks on Coalition forces in Iraq and to a much smaller degree in Afghanistans. While the Chinese are content to sell weapons to whomever.
I wouldn't expect them (Iran) to make an overt attack on the US. But the idea of having say a regular port visit to Mexico or Venezuela. Makes the logistics of a small unit attack with entry from Mexico much easier. Plausible deniability for Iran and a swat at the Infidels would be a tastey treat for Iran.
locutus
New Member
I have to say I agree with the assessment posted on another blog that Iran is using naval vessels to smuggle arms. It is becoming more and more difficult for Iran to use merchant vessels for smuggling illegal weapons so they are turning to their naval assets. You can read the entire article here:
Information Dissemination: Iranian Naval Diplomacy: Public Absurdity is the Usual, Expected Distraction
Information Dissemination: Iranian Naval Diplomacy: Public Absurdity is the Usual, Expected Distraction
And what has this got to do with the discussion?
Does Iranian involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq, both in their backyard, indicate that there is something sinister to this deployment in the Atlantic - I fail to see the connection here. Hopefully you won't suggest next that this deployment is intended to revenge an Iranian civillian airliner that was shot down by mistake with no survivors by a USN ship that was in Iranian waters or to avenge the many thousands of Iranians in a war launched by Saddam, in which many countries had a hand in later supporting? And how do the Chinese fit in the picture?
Really?? If the Iranians were intending to cause mischief, there would be easier ways to do it nearer to home than to send aged naval ships on a cruise halfway around the world.
BTW, the Iranian intention is regime survival in the face of a U.S./Sunni Arab alliance, not taking ''a swat at the Infidels'' ......
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Even if its true, I don't see the connection in this case. None of the countries in either North or South america really needs Iranian Arms.
Beatmaster
New Member
Comeone guys, whats the big deal here?
Even if Iran would send their whole navy to venezuela so what?
Its not a act of war granted it might be seen as a bolt and udderly stupid action as i do understand the provoke nature of it.
But still, they sail trough international waters so even if they pop up next to US coast and lissen to rock en roll who cares?
Obviously lets say for one moment that they have a alittle hostile suprise instore for who ever it is aimed at.
Both the US and all its main allies have so many warships, airstrips (bases) and naval bases in the region that it takes exactly 0.1 seconds to sink their fleet from the moment the order has been given lmao.
I would be more worried if the chinese, russian make a plan to merge their fleets and pop up next to new york with the aim to nuke it to the stone age...lmao.
Just kidding, Iran might have a sizable army (Even if most stuff is outdated) but their tech level and general armed forces are so far outnumbered, outdated, outmatched and outclassed that no matter what they do they would not be able to hurt a US based grasshopper lol.
Personally i would send them a radio message stop by for a a cold beer...lol.
There is really NO harm in this action and noone should be worried.
Besides that noone has the autority to demand retreat if Iran is not breaking any rules, unless sailing in international waters is a act of war.
Even if Iran would send their whole navy to venezuela so what?
Its not a act of war granted it might be seen as a bolt and udderly stupid action as i do understand the provoke nature of it.
But still, they sail trough international waters so even if they pop up next to US coast and lissen to rock en roll who cares?
Obviously lets say for one moment that they have a alittle hostile suprise instore for who ever it is aimed at.
Both the US and all its main allies have so many warships, airstrips (bases) and naval bases in the region that it takes exactly 0.1 seconds to sink their fleet from the moment the order has been given lmao.
I would be more worried if the chinese, russian make a plan to merge their fleets and pop up next to new york with the aim to nuke it to the stone age...lmao.
Just kidding, Iran might have a sizable army (Even if most stuff is outdated) but their tech level and general armed forces are so far outnumbered, outdated, outmatched and outclassed that no matter what they do they would not be able to hurt a US based grasshopper lol.
Personally i would send them a radio message stop by for a a cold beer...lol.
There is really NO harm in this action and noone should be worried.
Besides that noone has the autority to demand retreat if Iran is not breaking any rules, unless sailing in international waters is a act of war.
Beatmaster
New Member
Lol
Sure the only difference is that China is a force to recon with, even altrough they are not even close to the capabilities that the US and its allies have i would see the Chinese as a 10000000000% bigger danger then Iran from a military pov.
And even if this scenario ever happens why would china not be allowed to contribute to global security?
I mean the US and its allies have been doing alot of work worldwide to spread global security and such and imo it would be nice if the chinese would pull their weight.
Who knows what good might come from it.
Just a offtopic idea...
You're right, there is nothing to stop China from sending its vessels anywhere it wants to, including off Hawaii or even off the Carolina coast. And the U.S. will not be able to make a fuss as the USN has been operating off China's coast for decades - this would be a case of the American pot calling the Chinese kettle black.
Chinese naval activity for the forseeble future will be restricted to increased patrols in the Indian ocean as part of its rivaly with China and to 'protect' ships carry oil/energy supplies to China, as well as a limited presence in the Gulf of Aden on anti-piracy duties. IMO, this will be the main role of its first carrier, not too threaten U.S. dominanance in the Asia Pacfic or threaten anyone as some people have alleged.
Why would it be a threat of war? As long as the Iranian warships stay outside of territorial waters, in international waters, they are covered by the Freedom of the Seas.The US might get cranky about an Iranian warship sitting 12 nautical miles (or is it 3nautical miles for the US) and 1 chain off the US coast but legally there is nothing they can do about it.
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Regime change will come from within, not from the US or Sunni alliance.
But my point is the threat is not from the vessels but from the access to South America. The southern US border is open for the vast majority. You are thinking too one dimensional. Why attack the US in Iraq where you take the blame, that would lead to the ruin of Iran. Irans military would not stand for 2 weeks of combat with the US. there Navy would not last a day. They know this. So where is the US weak? At the border with Mexico. 12 well trained, well equipped men, with no thoughts of home. think about it, they could do more damage than all of Iran's Navy charging into NY harbor. A ship has more uses than its cannons or missles.
I see...... So the main purpose of this deployment is to launch a terrorist attack on a U.S. target?? And because any attacks closer to home will lead to U.S retaliation the Iranians have decide to do it via Mexico. Now why didn't I think of that? Lets hope the USN cancels all leave and places all its assets on full alert to deal with this threat. No doubt the Pentagon will recomend to the President that troops from Afghanistan and a carrier group in the Pacific be recalled home and that all nuclear assets be placed on DEFCON 1.
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Hugo Chavez will pay a lot to get the designs for the Iranian gas centrifuge based uranium enrichment system. This would be about the only way they could be delivered that is not subject to being legally intercepted.
A few countries will pay for the technology but Venezuela is not of them as it has no compelling need for such a capability. Besides, if there is any inkling that this Iranian ''voyage, if it ever happens, is a cover for deliveries of such stuff, the USN will intercept these ships, and such legalaties will be waved aside by Uncle Sam. A less painful way would be to fly it in, either by a chatered flight or other by means. Iran however, unlike North Korea and Pakistan, is in the business of buying such stuff, not selling it.
Beatmaster
New Member
Besides that Venezuela has differend suppliers if it wanted to i mean uncle Russia is still one of their main suppliers and for Hugo Chaves to buy Irany stuff would create to much hassle and waves for him so he is better of by calling the kremlin, not to mention that the quality is a hell of alot better then iran could sell him.
@18zulu
Iran conducting a terror attack on US soil? by sending a few mindless Rambo's to the mexican border? Lmao dude no offence but this is not a chuck norris movie.
Iran has enough worries and enough problems to deal with and yes Iran is provoking the west for decades and will remain doing that, and perhaps in the future there might be a war between Iran and the west or at least a standoff, but this will happen in Irans backyard where the odds are MUCH better for Iran then doing such a stunt.
Iran is becomming a danger to its direct region and is developing new weapons and systems and will remain doing that till they have their own " revolution" from the inside out till that time they either keep playing on the edge till Israel or the US say its enough, which both are not likely to say yet.
Military intervention in Iran is something the west does not need.
Sure its a option.....
Simple said Iran knows perfectly well what they have to lose and therefore they will keep just a inch away from crossing the line.
Obviously if it goes wrong then so be it but none of the involved countries would like a another war in their backyard, not to mention the fact that it would enflame the region which is not to the benfit of the west.
I would disagree with your statement and argue that it is the West or rather the U.S. that is unable to come to some agreement with Iran, which would be in the interests of both countries. What possible reason would Iran have to ''provoke'' anyone? Have the Iranians invaded anyone or launched any attacks on its neighbours and does it have a military presence all across the Middle East? Remember the invasion of Iran by Saddam, which the West quietly encouraged, and the billions of dollars poured in by many countries into ensuring a Saddam victory? Remember Operation Praying Mantis, that wiped out a 3rd of Iran's navy and the assistance given to Iraq by USN ships in the Gulf? BTW, Iran cooperated fully with Uncle Sam in the so called ''War On Terror'', it took in thousands of Afghan refugees and it agrreed to close a blind eye to any coalition CSAR/SAR flights over Iranian territory, in the event that planes were shot down and pilots ejected over Iran, during the invasion of Iraq. Iran has nothing to gain by ''provoking'' the West, all it's actions and involvement in Iraq, the Lebanon and Afghanistan are aimed at preserving its interests and mantaining its influence against a U.S/Sunni Arab alliance.
I believe that we have to view things from the perspectives of both sides rather than just one side, and understand that both sides have their own interests and concerns to watch out for.
It would not benefit anyone, not only the West.
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Hugo Chavez has publically announced that the country is going to develop a nuclear industry, including enrichment. For obvious reasons he does not claim that they will be developing nuclear weapons.
Only if the USA has iron clad proof, and probably not even then.
Attacking and boarding another country’s naval vessels on the high seas is an act of war, and to pretend otherwise would set a legal precedent that all the worst governments would love to see, but are too afraid to try and make on their own. Especially because, technically, there is nothing illegal about possessing enrichment technology, only how you use it.
Not without landing to refuel at a number of countries along the way, any one of which can demand the right of inspection under international law or refuse the aircraft permission to refuel and depart, or even to land at all, if it is a civilian aircraft. Military aircraft are not subject to inspection on demand, but are subject to automatic internment if they land without prior permission.
Iran, like North Korea, will sell anything to anyone, especially weapons. Iran has a large smuggling network in place, and is under strong suspicion of using naval missions as cover in the past (to smuggle weapons to Syria for transshipment to Hezbollah and Hamas). And, unlike North Korea, Iran has the latest centrifuge designs from Pakistan (I believe they are up to the Mk. III now). Pakistan is stuck in the crosshairs, especially after the latest revelations about their illegal nuclear weapons technology trades by Abdul Qadeer Khan (He seems to be afraid that he is going to be made to ‘disappear’, and is revealing new evidence trying to prove to everyone that he has ‘protection’ in place.), and cannot afford to have mores sales of centrifuge technology traced back to them. :argue