Indonesia's acquisition of Russian submarines

[Cuddly]

Actually there are only 39 warships acquired from Volksmarines. 16s Parchim Class Corvettes, 14s Frosch I Class LSTs and 9s Kondor II Class minesweepers. Indeed, a huge procurement in Indonesian navy history, but all are a bunch of crap at that time.

After undergoing a major refit, almost have seaworthiness status. Some of the Parchims have be fitted with Mk.32 torpedo launchers and as reported also equipped with Simbad Mistral SAM, to replace the ageing SA-N-5. Still not too modern in these days, but the Parchims, due to the numourus number are Indonesian navy workhorse in antisubmarine and patrol mission. I don’t know abt the sonar systems if they are included in the refit program or not, but local industry as reported is able to make a sonar system but details still hazy whether its a military varian or perhaps probably only for civil/ fishery purposes.

 

[contedicavour]

Actually there are only 39 warships acquired from Volksmarines. 16s Parchim Class Corvettes, 14s Frosch I Class LSTs and 9s Kondor II Class minesweepers. Indeed, a huge procurement in Indonesian navy history, but all are a bunch of crap at that time.

After undergoing a major refit, almost have seaworthiness status. Some of the Parchims have be fitted with Mk.32 torpedo launchers and as reported also equipped with Simbad Mistral SAM, to replace the ageing SA-N-5. Still not too modern in these days, but the Parchims, due to the numourus number are Indonesian navy workhorse in antisubmarine and patrol mission. I don’t know abt the sonar systems if they are included in the refit program or not, but local industry as reported is able to make a sonar system but details still hazy whether its a military varian or perhaps probably only for civil/ fishery purposes.

Interesting thanks... a few questions :
> are the Harpoons on Van Speijk renovated or are they time-expired ?
> are the Exocet MM38 on the Fatahillah going to be replaced by MM40 ?
> any picture/news/detail on the Italian modified Comandanti class OPVH that Indonesia is building in its shipyard (Surabay IIRC) ?
> do the F5E, F16 and other fighterbombers in your air force carry anti-shipping missiles ?

cheers

 

[Todjaeger]

Interesting thanks... a few questions :
> are the Harpoons on Van Speijk renovated or are they time-expired ?
> are the Exocet MM38 on the Fatahillah going to be replaced by MM40 ?
> any picture/news/detail on the Italian modified Comandanti class OPVH that Indonesia is building in its shipyard (Surabay IIRC) ?
> do the F5E, F16 and other fighterbombers in your air force carry anti-shipping missiles ?

cheers

IIRC the F-16s, and possibly the F-5s as well, aren't particularly airworthy due to the US embargo. While that has more or less ended, I believe the airworthy (armed) elements of the Indonesian AF are largely the Hawk 200-series light fighters. Not sure if they can operated AShM.

-Cheers

 

[Cuddly]

Interesting thanks... a few questions :
> are the Harpoons on Van Speijk renovated or are they time-expired ?
> are the Exocet MM38 on the Fatahillah going to be replaced by MM40 ?
> any picture/news/detail on the Italian modified Comandanti class OPVH that Indonesia is building in its shipyard (Surabay IIRC) ?
> do the F5E, F16 and other fighterbombers in your air force carry anti-shipping missiles ?

cheers

Contedicavour, thanks for your questions.

1. All were expired long ago. Rumours there is a plan to replace them with Yakhont but some officers have noticed likely that to buy new version of Harpoon and IMHO this last option is more reasonable/ feasible than choosing the Yakhont. Integration of the different systems is still a nightmare that will be very baffling the navy. But the recent weapons procurement package from Russia is including 2 sets of Yakhont missiles incorporating the FCSs. By Indonesian navy engineers, the expired Harpoon have been renovated and successfully fired in the Joint Sea-Operations Drill on 2004, bringing the target ship to the bottom of sea.

2. Same with the Harpoon, the MM38 Exocet also has already expired. Couple years ago the navy modified the expired MM38 and tested them in the naval exercise. Supposed to be 4s missiles would be firing on that time, but only 3s were succesfully lunched and reported to have hit the targets, 1 failure to lunch due to the damage on the missile’s motor system. The local industries as reported have been developing so-called “National Missile” which is assisted by China. The basis for development is C-802 Saccade. The progress is hazy, details of the missile is still sketchy due to the developing project is classified as top secret. Indonesian navy has a plan to mid-life update the Fatahillah class and Ahmad Yani (Van Speijk) Class FFG. Honestly, I don’t know what type missile will be used to replace the current obsolete MM38, but I believe MM40 will have been including in the list if the mid-life update be performed in near future.

3. Myself also still on looking for the pics/ detail on the National Corvette. I will upload into this forum if I have got them. Had posted by someone in Indonesian navy forum, but sad have been deleted by the forum administrator. AFAIK, the National Corvette will be armed with Oto 76/62 SR plus Albatross SAM systems. The building progress of first hull is very slow due to the lack of fund.

4. None of the inventory carry the pure dedicated AShM, but the F-16s and the Hawk Mk. 109/209s have armed with AGM-65G Maverick that can serves as short range AShM. The new SU-30 MKs/MK2s high likely will be arming with Russian AShM.

5. Some of the F-16s and the F-5s are still airworthy. At least 4s of the F-16A/Bs and 8s of the F-5E/Fs are still serviceable. Yes you are right Todjaeger, the largely airworthy elements of the Indonesian AF are the Hawk series. 4s of the SU-27/30s also have been armed recently.

Cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Thanks a lot for your answers Cuddly !

I wasn't aware of the Yakhont purchase or of the national development of a modified Chinese C802. Your engineers are pretty good if they can update the existing Harpoons and Exocets !
Hawks firing Mavericks are already a good anti-shipping assets. I remember seeing a naval exercise in which the Italian Harriers launched Mavericks at 25+ km range against naval targets.
In case you get any more news, keep us posted and thanks a lot
I was surprised about the Albatross launcher on your corvettes. It's still a very good SAM with 13km range (or 18km range for the Aspide-2000 version) but it's not state of the art anymore vs the Asters for example. Though you can launch Asters from Albatros launchers...

cheers

 

[Cuddly]

Your welcome, Conte. Thanks a lot too for your warm response.
I will keep posting if I have got any more news.
BTW, as you said the Albatross launchers can also launch the Aster missile. What type of Asters that can be, Aster 15 or 30? As you said not state the art anymore in comparing to the Asters family, does the Italian Navy still use these missiles or the Albatross/ Aspide-2000 only intent to export market?

I found the latest pic of National Corvette from PT. PAL shipyard, Surabaya in below link. Only just a CG impression. Also there are a pics of mock up from previous design of National Corvette and new 40 metres FACM which have been being developed by the Indonesian Navy Maintenance and Repair Facility Division. As noticed by Admiral (ret) Bernard Kent Sondakh – former Indonesian Navy chief of navy staff, the National Missiles will be fitted on this indigenous FACM.

http://www.kaskus.us/showthread.php?t=431451

another pic is from Angkasa magazine-online. As reported by Angkasa base on the mock up of National Corvette on the stand of Fincantieri, the main gun is 100mm from Russia, and secondary gun 20mm from Oto Melara. Has fleksibility on the AShM options, ranging from Exocet, or Chinese made or even Russian made AShM. The main SAMs are still Albatross but also provided with Igla SAM from Russia. Quite impressive.

http://www.angkasa-online.com/public/news/0611/399.htm

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

Your welcome, Conte. Thanks a lot too for your warm response.
I will keep posting if I have got any more news.
BTW, as you said the Albatross launchers can also launch the Aster missile. What type of Asters that can be, Aster 15 or 30? As you said not state the art anymore in comparing to the Asters family, does the Italian Navy still use these missiles or the Albatross/ Aspide-2000 only intent to export market?

I found the latest pic of National Corvette from PT. PAL shipyard, Surabaya in below link. Only just a CG impression. Also there are a pics of mock up from previous design of National Corvette and new 40 metres FACM which have been being developed by the Indonesian Navy Maintenance and Repair Facility Division. As noticed by Admiral (ret) Bernard Kent Sondakh – former Indonesian Navy chief of navy staff, the National Missiles will be fitted on this indigenous FACM.

http://www.kaskus.us/showthread.php?t=431451

another pic is from Angkasa magazine-online. As reported by Angkasa base on the mock up of National Corvette on the stand of Fincantieri, the main gun is 100mm from Russia, and secondary gun 20mm from Oto Melara. Has fleksibility on the AShM options, ranging from Exocet, or Chinese made or even Russian made AShM. The main SAMs are still Albatross but also provided with Igla SAM from Russia. Quite impressive.

http://www.angkasa-online.com/public/news/0611/399.htm

cheers

Thanks again, it's amazing how these forums can allow people to share such detailed data & pictures. The overall design of the National Corvette definitively has a "Fincantieri touch" with a resemblance to features on the Comandanti OPVH and the Fremm FFGs. I can't see the details of the aft portion of the corvette though.

To answer your questions, our navy still has 16 FFGs and FFLs operating Albatross with Aspide SAMs (the 8 Maestrale FFGs and 8 - soon reduced to 4 - Minerva FFLs). We'll keep them in service until about 2018 when the last FREMMs will enter service. The missile is still efficient with its 13km range and Mach 2.5 speed , especially if guided by the latest illuminators.
The Aspide-2000 is a version that is in service with the Air Force for base protection in a system called "Spada" (sword), but naval wise it exists only for export. Brazil has 6 such systems aboard the renovated Niteroi FFGs. The SAM has an improved range of 18km and a speed of Mach 3.5.
The Albatross system can launch Aster-15s, and indeed most trials in the late '90s and early '00s were run from Albatross. I've got a picture home (in the "Oto Melara 1905-2005" book showing an Aster-15 launch from an Albatross. However the 30km range and Mach 4 speed cannot be attained with such a rudimentary launch system (vs the Sylver VLS).
Given its size, your National Corvette can embark an A43 8- or 16-cell VLS module for Aster-15, with a Herakles radar like Singapore's new Delta frigates.

Keep in touch

cheers

 

[qwerty223]

Your welcome, Conte. Thanks a lot too for your warm response.
I will keep posting if I have got any more news.
BTW, as you said the Albatross launchers can also launch the Aster missile. What type of Asters that can be, Aster 15 or 30? As you said not state the art anymore in comparing to the Asters family, does the Italian Navy still use these missiles or the Albatross/ Aspide-2000 only intent to export market?

I found the latest pic of National Corvette from PT. PAL shipyard, Surabaya in below link. Only just a CG impression. Also there are a pics of mock up from previous design of National Corvette and new 40 metres FACM which have been being developed by the Indonesian Navy Maintenance and Repair Facility Division. As noticed by Admiral (ret) Bernard Kent Sondakh – former Indonesian Navy chief of navy staff, the National Missiles will be fitted on this indigenous FACM.

http://www.kaskus.us/showthread.php?t=431451

another pic is from Angkasa magazine-online. As reported by Angkasa base on the mock up of National Corvette on the stand of Fincantieri, the main gun is 100mm from Russia, and secondary gun 20mm from Oto Melara. Has fleksibility on the AShM options, ranging from Exocet, or Chinese made or even Russian made AShM. The main SAMs are still Albatross but also provided with Igla SAM from Russia. Quite impressive.

http://www.angkasa-online.com/public/news/0611/399.htm

cheers

Well, National Corvette is a myth I would say. They have selected their new corvette the Sigma class corvettes. With impressive specs!


New Indonesia`s Sigma class corvettes
- Surface to air missile: Mistral
- Surface to surface missile: Excocet MM40 block 2
- Main Gun: Oto-Melara 76 mm
- Auxiliary Gun: 20 mm Vector G12
- Combat System: Thales TACTICOS
- Main search radar: MW08 3D multibeam surveillance radar
- Fire control radar: LIROD Mk2 tracking radar
- Data Link: LINK Y Mk2 datalink system
- Sonar: Thales Kingklip medium frequency active/passive ASW hull mounted sonar
- Naval Communications: Thales/Signaal FOKON
- Torpedo: 3A 244S Mode II/MU 90
- Decoy/Chaff Launcher: TERMA SKWS
- Integrated Platform Management System: Imtech UniMACs 3000 Integrated Bridge System

 

[contedicavour]

Well, National Corvette is a myth I would say. They have selected their new corvette the Sigma class corvettes. With impressive specs!


New Indonesia`s Sigma class corvettes
- Surface to air missile: Mistral
- Surface to surface missile: Excocet MM40 block 2
- Main Gun: Oto-Melara 76 mm
- Auxiliary Gun: 20 mm Vector G12
- Combat System: Thales TACTICOS
- Main search radar: MW08 3D multibeam surveillance radar
- Fire control radar: LIROD Mk2 tracking radar
- Data Link: LINK Y Mk2 datalink system
- Sonar: Thales Kingklip medium frequency active/passive ASW hull mounted sonar
- Naval Communications: Thales/Signaal FOKON
- Torpedo: 3A 244S Mode II/MU 90
- Decoy/Chaff Launcher: TERMA SKWS
- Integrated Platform Management System: Imtech UniMACs 3000 Integrated Bridge System

Well ... impressive specs is very debatable. It depends on what missions will be assigned to these corvettes, and it also depends to which ships you are comparing them (vs a Malaysian MEKO or a Singaporean Delta/modified Lafayette).
I'm not convinced by Mistral, which is a 4 km range IR guidance very short range missile... and neither am I by the lack of serious ASW (variable depth sonar with towed array component, or at least permanent facilities for ASW helos).

cheers