Indonesian Aero News

[Redlands18]

With C390 recent success momentum, including potential license build in ROK and India, I doubt Embrear wiling to go with Airbus. Airbus potentially want to take over and build under it's brand. Something that Embrear now increasingly will not agree. They try that with Boeing, now their momentum shown they can do it alone.

Besides the project if rumours are right is to build medium twin engine turboprop using TP400. Thus also increase users for TP400.

If Airbus was to proceed with a twin engine turboprop using the TP400 than that is not where the commonalities with the A400 would end, same cockpit and avionics. There is no doubt there is a strong market for aircraft in this class, Air Forces are looking for something a bit more capable than the Herc, especially those without a true heavy airlifter in the C-17 class.

 

[swerve]

A TP400 has about 2.4 times the power of an AE2100J, so a freighter with 2 x TP400 would have about 20% more power than a C-130J, unless the power output was boosted. I'm not sure how much more useful capability that would give it.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Here a photo of the new Selex RAT-31 DL/M radar installation operated by Satuan Radar 221 in Pacitan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1747585214187213079

And the 4th of five ordered C130J-30, A1334, will fly soon to its new home in Indonesia.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1747634743863320875

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia Deputy Defense Minister talking in MinDef X account.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748508983382692006

Basically he stated that Rafale Package includes the whole system. Include Armament, Electronics Support, Training and ground support infrastructure. Seems this is to counter opposition people that compare why Indonesia procurement of 42 Rafale is more costly then French 42 Rafale.

Closing period to ellection, defense procurement become hot topic. As this is Prabowo's track record. One thing tough, this change ussual practise in Indonesian procurement where weapon system and supporting system ussualy being allocated on different contract. This is that should have been done on procure overall system plus life support infrastructure. Have seen also this kind of practise also being done with A400M, in which the first batch of two also being prepared with supporting infrastructure budget for the next batches.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Any news about the acquisition of the Canadair CL-415 and CL-515?
The plan was to deliver the first one in 2024.

|"We expect to complete the remaining program milestones in the near future, and deliver the first new CL-515 on schedule in 2024.”|

Indonesia to receive world’s first CL-515 in seven aircraft deal with Longview

Longview Aviation Capital, and its subsidiary Viking Air of North Saanich, BC, reached a deal to provide the Republic of Indonesia’s Ministry of Defense with

www.wingsmagazine.com

Btw how many of the 6 additional T-50s (from the $240 million contract) are already delivered?

 

[Ananda]

how many of the 6 additional T-50s (from the $240 million contract) are already delivered

Seems the schedule if not mistaken will begin by mid this year. This on condition that they already in effective contract by mid 2021.

 

[Ananda]

BlackSky inks $50 million deal to supply imagery services and satellites to Indonesia

BlackSky inks $50 million deal to supply imagery services and satellites to Indonesia

spacenews.com

The deal for Indonesian defense satelites seems involving Thales Alenia with Blacksky. Seems Blacksky will provide satelite imaging systems networks with satelites provides by Thales Alenia co-op with Black Sky. Local media report overall budget for defense satelites is USD 300mio.

Thus this USD 50 mio contract with Blacksky will be part of overall project.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1755607959001080088

 

[Ananda]

Jubir Menhan: Rencana Pembelian Jet Mirage Sudah Dibatalkan

Jubir menhan mengatakan pembelian jet tempur Mirage 2000-5 bekas dari Qatar memang pernah direncanakan, namun progresnya sudah dibatalkan.

www.cnnindonesia.com

Seems MinDef spokesman told media that Mirage 2K plan has been officially terminated. This seems related with continue accusations from (especially) supporters of other Presidential candidates toward Prabowo on this Mirage 2K procurement plan.

As I have mentioned before, whether justifiable or not, any second hand assets acquisition increasingly can become political liabilities. Thus seems from rumours the budget for Mirage 2K acquisition, will be diverted toward refurbishment of C/D F-16 Blk52ID to V standard. This is why all potential "interim" assets program or 2nd hand procurement in Navy and AF already change to refurbishment project on existing assets. It is seems politically safer.

 

[koxinga]

But it doesn't increase the figther numbers and the upgrades will likely take a good 3 - 4 years to complete, overlapping with the Rafale deliveries. Other than the 10 x T-50i being delivered, the short term would still be a gap.

 

[Ananda]

Other than the 10 x T-50i being delivered, the short term would still be a gap.

Yes, that's why I said even tough justifiable or not (in which interim assets procurement has justification for gap filling), second hand procurement as interim assets is increasingly become political liabilities.

That's why me and some other Indonesian members always said Politics become more determine factor then defense need on Indonesian procurement. Not that defense need being sideline completely, it is just become secondary then politics consideration. Especially internal politics.

Those other candidates that attack Prabowo on interim assets plan, has not giving other alternatives. However as increasingly toward election it is becoming political liabilities, then seems current administration decided for refurbishment as safer political choices. Safer on matter of political calculation and not defense assessment (including gap timing).

Add:
Rumours also talk Frenchie going to speed up first batch of six Rafale delivery from 2026 to 2025. Also there's talks that LM still not giving up on more F-16V, outside plan refurbishment V kits (whether new build or refurbishment from USAF Blk 40+ excess). Too much rumours now, let's see after the election. For one thing budget for F-15ID first batch is still hanging undecided.

 

[koxinga]

talk Frenchie going to speed up first batch of six Rafale delivery from 2026 to 2025. Also there's talks that LM still not giving up on more F-16V, outside plan refurbishment V kits (whether new build or refurbishment from USAF Blk 40+ excess). Too much rumours now, let's see after the election. For one thing budget for F-15ID first batch is still hanging undecided.

It depends whether the French can increase their production capacity to >20 per year.

Dassault’s whirlwind of Rafale orders may be too much of a good thing

Dassault’s order backlog for Rafales has reached new heights. While a backlog is a good problem to have, it is still a problem.

www.iiss.org

 

[ADMk2]

Jubir Menhan: Rencana Pembelian Jet Mirage Sudah Dibatalkan

Jubir menhan mengatakan pembelian jet tempur Mirage 2000-5 bekas dari Qatar memang pernah direncanakan, namun progresnya sudah dibatalkan.

www.cnnindonesia.com

Seems MinDef spokesman told media that Mirage 2K plan has been officially terminated. This seems related with continue accusations from (especially) supporters of other Presidential candidates toward Prabowo on this Mirage 2K procurement plan.

As I have mentioned before, whether justifiable or not, any second hand assets acquisition increasingly can become political liabilities. Thus seems from rumours the budget for Mirage 2K acquisition, will be diverted toward refurbishment of C/D F-16 Blk52ID to V standard. This is why all potential "interim" assets program or 2nd hand procurement in Navy and AF already change to refurbishment project on existing assets. It is seems politically safer.

Sounds like a much more militarily sensible plan. A force comprising Rafale, F-16V fully upgraded and properly armed / supported by proper quantities of enablers, will be of far more use than one including M2K, Rafale non-upgraded F-16 and all the headaches trying to support the diverse fleet.

 

[Ananda]

much more militarily sensible plan. A force comprising Rafale, F-16V fully upgraded and properly armed / supported by proper quantities of enablers, will be of far more use than one including M2K, Rafale non-upgraded F-16 and all the headaches trying to support the diverse fleet.

Yes so far the chaotic procurement plan, seems narrowing to Rafale, F-16 Upgrade and even Flankers with slight upgrade. However knowing Indonesia, new administration can still mess it up. Thus after election, anything can still turn upsidedown.

In the end Political compromise and Reality Budget 'hopefully' can continue put sensibilities. Still there're going to be open question on two type after this. F-15ID and KF-21. F-15ID is being touted as Flankers replacement by end of this decade. While KF-21, well I'm personally already giving up on speculating on that one. Still politically the commitment for KF-21 left open, just anyone guessing what's the end game will be.

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MinDef online accounts (X, Web, and FB) still indicating F-15ID remain open commitment. Just I don't know how they're going to afford this operationally. Perhaps if the window still by end of this decade, they can't have room for this by replacing Flankers.

 

[Ananda]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758436098639048761

Call It a dream, still this company (infoglobal) basically the only avionics company in Indonesia with proven record. Thus make this company so far shown positive lobbying support from MinDef. The Video and X account basically shown two design project that they are now lobbying.

1. LCA call I-22 Sikatan, which so far proposed going to be propelled by 2 RR Turbomeca Adour, similar with current propulsion used by Hawk 200/100.
2. UCV MALE call WANI-23.

My suspicion this come from DI drones project and it's involvement with KF-21, which seems by some corners in MinDef not really progressing much. Off course both KF-21inolvement and MALE UAV stalemates basically not DI faults. It is more to present administration political support quandrum. Still some raise questions on DI financial capacity and capabilities to support projects outside their niche on Turboprop transport.

The talk whether to work with RR on licensing Adour or even re-engineering Adour (which personally beyond Indonesian Industry capabilities) has been raise several times. Still Sikatan mock up has been present on 2022 IndoDefence exhibition. I have nig doubt this company can do that projects by themselves. However if certain investments and reliable established partners can be found, then perhaps.

Still long way ahead, and more importantly continous unwavering political suport and commitment needed. Which in Indonesia can be more tricky then huge budget commitments. Will see how this goes after election. However this company put the video on the projects right after elections result increasingly tilt to Prabowo's, perhaps they already done their homework.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758436098639048761

Call It a dream, still this company (infoglobal) basically the only avionics company in Indonesia with proven record. Thus make this company so far shown positive lobbying support from MinDef. The Video and X account basically shown two design project that they are now lobbying.

1. LCA call I-22 Sikatan, which so far proposed going to be propelled by 2 RR Turbomeca Adour, similar with current propulsion used by Hawk 200/100.
2. UCV MALE call WANI-23.

My suspicion this come from DI drones project and it's involvement with KF-21, which seems by some corners in MinDef not really progressing much. Off course both KF-21inolvement and MALE UAV stalemates basically not DI faults. It is more to present administration political support quandrum. Still some raise questions on DI financial capacity and capabilities to support projects outside their niche on Turboprop transport.

The talk whether to work with RR on licensing Adour or even re-engineering Adour (which personally beyond Indonesian Industry capabilities) has been raise several times. Still Sikatan mock up has been present on 2022 IndoDefence exhibition. I have nig doubt this company can do that projects by themselves. However if certain investments and reliable established partners can be found, then perhaps.

Still long way ahead, and more importantly continous unwavering political suport and commitment needed. Which in Indonesia can be more tricky then huge budget commitments. Will see how this goes after election. However this company put the video on the projects right after elections result increasingly tilt to Prabowo's, perhaps they already done their homework.

I don't gonna say these two programs (I-22 and Wani 23) are totally unrealistic and almost to a level of infantile fantasies, but looking to the lack of support of the current administration for the last 10 years for the Elang Hitam UAV and KF-X programs, ....these two programs mentioned in post #2994 are indeed ridiculously unrealistic.

The next period we will have Prabowo as president, but with Jokowi and Luhut dictating Gibran what to do and say. Prabowo's health and condition is a little bit worrying, so sooner or later the Jokowi dynasty will take everything over. With other words, even the Elang Hitam UAV development and KF-X participation will be kept in the refrigerator.

 

[Ananda]

don't gonna say these two programs (I-22 and Wani 23) are totally unrealistic and almost to a level of infantile fantasies, but looking to the lack of support of the current administration for the last 10 years for the Elang Hitam UAV and KF-X programs, ....these two programs mentioned in post #2994 are indeed ridiculously unrealistic.

Yes, that's the problem in Indonesia politics nowadays. Securing long term commitment throughout myriad of political factions. To make this program become realities, it needs to secure long term political commitment to attract established partners. This assides making sure consortium of local industries also being supported.

Even ROK when doing KFX not only established consortium of local industries supply chains, but also try to get established foreign partners included. The established partners need for support on design phases and work with local industries chains. This's coming from ROK chains that already far ahead then Indonesian chains capabilities.

Our track record in KFX already raise question on Indonesian political long term commitment for any defense projects. This will make harder to attract established partners to work with local production chains as ROK did. Flip floping politics and commitment is always the problem.

I put this projects from Infoglobal as this companies 'fortune' on Indonesian Aero Industry seems increasing. They will not going to be able to do it alone for sure. Thus this kind of project can be a 'test' to see how far Indonesian administration willing to back up Aero Industry chain and network. Seems they're more willingness to back up Naval, Electronics and even Land defense industries. However big questions on Aero Industry.

After all Jokowi and Prabowo known for their talk on 'defense industry investment' and not just procurement. See how far they're willing to commit with Aero Industry or just talk.

Anyway:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759048968716382391

TNI-AU pilot begin familiarization with A400M. MinDef X account shown they are begin simulator training. I watchs videos on pilots landing Airbus Airliners, and the computer instructions very similar in this A400M with Airbus Commercials ones. The layout of the cockpit also very similar.

 

[r0m8470]

Yes, that's the problem in Indonesia politics nowadays. Securing long term commitment throughout myriad of political factions. To make this program become realities, it needs to secure long term political commitment to attract established partners. This assides making sure consortium of local industries also being supported.

Even ROK when doing KFX not only established consortium of local industries supply chains, but also try to get established foreign partners included. The established partners need for support on design phases and work with local industries chains. This's coming from ROK chains that already far ahead then Indonesian chains capabilities.

Our track record in KFX already raise question on Indonesian political long term commitment for any defense projects. This will make harder to attract established partners to work with local production chains as ROK did. Flip floping politics and commitment is always the problem.

I put this projects from Infoglobal as this companies 'fortune' on Indonesian Aero Industry seems increasing. They will not going to be able to do it alone for sure. Thus this kind of project can be a 'test' to see how far Indonesian administration willing to back up Aero Industry chain and network. Seems they're more willingness to back up Naval, Electronics and even Land defense industries. However big questions on Aero Industry.

After all Jokowi and Prabowo known for their talk on 'defense industry investment' and not just procurement. See how far they're willing to commit with Aero Industry or just talk.

Anyway:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1759048968716382391

TNI-AU pilot begin familiarization with A400M. MinDef X account shown they are begin simulator training. I watchs videos on pilots landing Airbus Airliners, and the computer instructions very similar in this A400M with Airbus Commercials ones. The layout of the cockpit also very similar.

I don't get the lack of support for the KFX/K-21. If there is a country in the upswing, with demonstrated track record of being able to grow an industry from a humble beginnings to having strong aspirational portfolio and do it in a short time, one of such country would be South Korea for sure. Look at what they've done with T-50 with the evolutionary variants, the K1/K2 MBT, the myriads of AFV, and missiles. I would have thought that even as a junior partner, with minimal IP transfer, the local aerospace industries can still benefit quite a bit, and there would still be enough $ for everyone.

 

[koxinga]

I don't get the lack of support for the KFX/K-21. If there is a country in the upswing, with demonstrated track record of being able to grow an industry from a humble beginnings to having strong aspirational portfolio and do it in a short time, one of such country would be South Korea for sure. Look at what they've done with T-50 with the evolutionary variants, the K1/K2 MBT, the myriads of AFV, and missiles. I would have thought that even as a junior partner, with minimal IP transfer, the local aerospace industries can still benefit quite a bit, and there would still be enough $ for everyone.

It is not about South Korea or its capability. It is about Indonesian internal politics and who started it.

When administrations change, priorities change.

 

[r0m8470]

It is not about South Korea or its capability. It is about Indonesian internal politics and who started it.

When administrations change, priorities change.

I see that, but don't get the changing priorities due to admin change. Defence building is not something that can be swapped out in a 5 year cycle. It's like all the sane people just decided that once they get in power, it's just an exercise for money/power/influence grab and nothing else.

Curious what the incoming administration would do as far as new hardware acquisition.

 

[koxinga]

It's like all the sane people just decided that once they get in power, it's just an exercise for money/power/influence grab and nothing else.

Bingo! You are not far off. Continuity and long term planning is something only Singapore does well in ASEAN due to it's stable political structure/lack of alternatives.

@Ananda will have more to say about this since he is the Indonesian specialist here.