Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Well..will see about that..this administrations now assign Trade Minister and State Owned Trading Company to gather crumb rubber with that amount..and in same time conclude the deal with the Russian on trade barter.

Frm what I gather, the contract for Su-35 will be signed on parralel deal with Rubber Trade. As Tonnyc mentioned, the Russian is not heard clossing the trade rubber deal with Thailand, then we see what this deal conclusion is.

For one thing, since the Russian did not one to involved local industry in this particullar armament deal with Indonesia, then trade barter is the only other option available under current arms procurement regulation.

For my self, I just wondered if this proposed trade barter deal is the last way out for Su-35 procurement and Pro-Russian arms procurement factions in Indonesia current administration..

 

[Ananda]

End of road for AW 101 in Indonesia ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-corruption-idUSKBN18M1B9

https://m.detik.com/news/infografis/3512714/skandal-nekat-petinggi-au

Panglima TNI: Helikopter AW-101 Merlin tidak sesuai spesifikasi - ANTARA News

The different articles from Reuters, Antara News Agency, and detik online..all related to corruption/graft scandal related to procurement of AW 101 for Indonesian AF (TNI-AU).

As mentioned on previous posts related to AW 101 saga in Indonesia, frm begining AW 101 procurement by TNI-AU already faced hurdles frm the initial one AW 101 for VIP/Presidential purposed is being rejected by President himself that considered to still used existing Super Puma VIP being assembled and part produced by DI/IAe.

TNI-AU insistance then to used AW-101 for Combat SAR/Transport stating it's equiped with ramp doors and can trasported more soldiers compared to Airbus/IAe offered of Caracal. However their insistance that shown on 1 example being delivered to Jkt,shown that AW 101 did not equiped by ramp door, instead with tail door used by VIP version.

This raised suspicions that TNI-AU already commited procurement outside procedures, which to safe the deal they converted the VIP version to troop version with Leonarfo agreement, but the result still AW 101 that not meet military specs for Combat SAR/ Military Tranport versions of AW 101.

Furthermore the TNI-AU brass insistance to bring the sole AW 101 to Jakarta even without the specs as promised by them, raised alarm in Corruption Watch Agency (KPK) and push Mindef and Indonesian Military High Command to hold the induction of that AW 101 to active duty,and pursue iregularity probe on the deal.

With this AW now part Leonardo already faced second corruption scandal in Asia for AW 101 campaign,as they faced simillar hurdle in India 3 years ago.

Pictures bellow frm local forum shown the tail door of AW 101 sole example that being delivered, whille it should be in the form of Ramp Door as promissed by TNI-AU brass for Combat SAR/Military Transport versions.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-corruption-idUSKBN18M1B9

https://m.detik.com/news/infografis/3512714/skandal-nekat-petinggi-au

Panglima TNI: Helikopter AW-101 Merlin tidak sesuai spesifikasi - ANTARA News

The different articles from Reuters, Antara News Agency, and detik online..all related to corruption/graft scandal related to procurement of AW 101 for Indonesian AF (TNI-AU).

As mentioned on previous posts related to AW 101 saga in Indonesia, frm begining AW 101 procurement by TNI-AU already faced hurdles frm the initial one AW 101 for VIP/Presidential purposed is being rejected by President himself that considered to still used existing Super Puma VIP being assembled and part produced by DI/IAe.

TNI-AU insistance then to used AW-101 for Combat SAR/Transport stating it's equiped with ramp doors and can trasported more soldiers compared to Airbus/IAe offered of Caracal. However their insistance that shown on 1 example being delivered to Jkt,shown that AW 101 did not equiped by ramp door, instead with tail door used by VIP version.

This raised suspicions that TNI-AU already commited procurement outside procedures, which to safe the deal they converted the VIP version to troop version with Leonarfo agreement, but the result still AW 101 that not meet military specs for Combat SAR/ Military Tranport versions of AW 101.

Furthermore the TNI-AU brass insistance to bring the sole AW 101 to Jakarta even without the specs as promised by them, raised alarm in Corruption Watch Agency (KPK) and push Mindef and Indonesian Military High Command to hold the induction of that AW 101 to active duty,and pursue iregularity probe on the deal.

With this AW now part Leonardo already faced second corruption scandal in Asia for AW 101 campaign,as they faced simillar hurdle in India 3 years ago.

Pictures bellow frm local forum shown the tail door of AW 101 sole example that being delivered, whille it should be in the form of Ramp Door as promissed by TNI-AU brass for Combat SAR/Military Transport versions.

All these problems and embarresments caused by some corrupt morons....
There was even an article in the Airforces Monthly of April about it.

 

[Ananda]

This AW 101 saga shows how 'bad' coordination within current Jokowi administration on defence procurement. What made laugh that some guys in local forum try to blame this misshap like the AW 101 procurement to previous admin. That really shown how 'redicolous' the present Admin and their supporters to justified their wrong doing.

How you can blame previous admin when all the procurement process happen in Jokowi admin. AW offered the deal after their saga in India, and that happen after 2014, thus in Jokowi era. This simply shown despite their supporters in forum and media try to potraid this administration 'so called' clean procurement..but in reality showing that too many factions with difference agenda 'played' in overall defence procurement process.

Resulted that the procurements practically only work mostly to finish contract frm previous admin..whille the procurement contracts in their own era continue protracted and shown bad coordination...this in the condition that current administration actually have larger defence budget that the previous one.

 

[tonnyc]

I on the other hand do not blame the current admin or the previous one. The current admin very rarely interfere in military affairs. In general the Widodo government admits that he is not familiar with military matters and trusts that the MoD and the armed forces know what they are doing.

Turns out that they don't. Too bad. Perhaps after the current heads of the various services retire, the next generation of armed forces chiefs will be better.

Oh, wait, if they're all like Agus then I'm pinning my hope on the generation after that.

 

[Ananda]

That's one thing that I'm not completely agree with tonnyc. The budget is in the hand of Mindef, which part of Jokowi's cabinet thus part of his administration. Jokowi himself perhaps does not understand military procurement himself, thus give more flexibility for Mindef and the Armed forces chiefs to do it.

But miss coordination and protracted process in Armed Forces procurement definetely has shown lack of control within present admin. How the Mindef and the Armed Forces chief openly saying in media that they did not know procurement of major item (like this AW 101), and blame it only to AF brass?

The AF can't take out money frm the budget without Mindef and Armed Forces chief knowledge. This is not how's the work since the money can only be released by MoD. Let's say that Mindef and Armed Forces Chief trully did not know the procurement..then it's showing much worse coordination within line of command...since this is saying some one can just go to MoD to released the money for major procurement without the top man knowledge and approval.

I'm not saying all goes well in previous admin..but what happen to current admin is worse then previous one..despite all the hype in media that current admin will be more dicipline and properly handling budgets and procurements.

So I don't think it's can be remedy with simply changing the men on the top of MoD and Armed Forces hierarchy. This is more on systematic process dicipline. Thus this is definetely on the area of present admin responsibility and not just the MoD and Armed Forces.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Air Forces Monthly reports in the current number about Airbus industries starting talks with Indonesia about acquisition of A400s for TNI-AU. See attachment.
I don't expect anything soon, maybe a contract will be signed during the next administration, at the earliest...

 

[Ananda]

Sputnik claim.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201706061054357456-russia-indonesia-su-35/

Well if you believe in Sputnik, then it's one step ahead on Su-35 finalization deal with Indonesian AF. No confirmation frm local source tough..

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

https://sputniknews.com/military/201706061054357456-russia-indonesia-su-35/

Well if you believe in Sputnik, then it's one step ahead on Su-35 finalization deal with Indonesian AF. No confirmation frm local source tough..

Well, they are often very optimistic. Like this report: https://sputniknews.com/military/201703211051796709-subs-russia-indonesia-deliveries/ To be honest, I don't expect anything the coming years regarding the acquisition of Russian submarines.
Before there will be any Su-35 contract signed, our defence minister will give multiple breaking-news-press-conferences about it.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Again some empty statements of our minister of defence... Kemenhan Pastikan Indonesia Beli 10 Unit Sukhoi SU 35 dari Rusia - Tribunnews.com Mobile

He tells in fact two things:
1. Its sure/guaranteed that Indonesia will buy 10 Su-35s from Russia, but when is up to the minister of business.
2. Indonesia will get a manufacturing plant to make the spare parts for the aircraft to be able to perform all the maintenance here...

Well, you all understand of course that I don't take this whole story seriously...

 

[Ananda]

MAST Asia 2017: ShinMaywa outlines options for industrial collaboration in Indonesia | Jane's 360

Shinmaywa increase their effort with Industrial collaboration option for competition on Indonesian Multi Purpose Amphibious Plane projects. As mentioned before the competition is between Shinmaywa against Beriev with BE-200.

Just like in Su-35, the Russian already claim that BE-200 will win Indonesian contract, but in truth nothing definitive untill the contract sign.

@sandhiyudha..this is the same minister that also claim strong interest for 16 Grippen as F-5 replacement, when he visit Sweden recently..

 

[Ananda]

TAI, PTDI pen strategic cooperation agreement

Turkey TAI and Indonesian DI sign agreement for further marketing and development of DI's N219 and N245. Previously DI stated that they are looking for partner to Invest on development of N245.

With Turkey TAI is interested on developing regional turboprop airliners, and its previous exposure with CN235, involvement with N245 project which's based on CN235 is seems safer progress rather then developing something frm scratch.

TAI also in talk with DI previously on cooperation for DI developing TAI's existing MALE UAV..further talk on UAV join development is seems part of the agreement.

 

[Ananda]

Thales proposes Watchkeeper UAS for Indonesian Air Force's ISTAR requirements | Jane's 360

Seems parralel with DI program with TAI for MALE UAV, The AF also keep talking with potential supplier to augment their UAV capabilities. This talk with Thales seems related with Defence plan on augmenting border area with survailence UAV.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thales proposes Watchkeeper UAS for Indonesian Air Force's ISTAR requirements | Jane's 360

Seems parralel with DI program with TAI for MALE UAV, The AF also keep talking with potential supplier to augment their UAV capabilities. This talk with Thales seems related with Defence plan on augmenting border area with survailence UAV.

The Watchkeeper WK450 looks like a capable UAV, but its built in the UK by a joint venture company, UAV Tactical Systems (U-TacS), set up by the Israeli company Elbit Systems (51% ownership) and the Thales group. Also the engine is 100% Israeli. So i wonder if its politically acceptable for Indonesia to order it, or they have to do it the way like they did with the acquisition of the Searchers IIs, which were 100% developed and made by the Phillipines...

 

[Ananda]

It's Thales..thus will not come frm Israel..who cares if Israel have heavy involvement..Sipri will clasified it as export frm non israel"...

 

[Ananda]

Well, minister of defence confirmed that Mindef already got official approval to procured at least 11 SU-35. At the same time also aknowledged that the deal has been in negotiation stage for more than 2 years.
Indonesia pastikan beli Sukhoi untuk perkuat pertahanan udara - ANTARA News

http://m.antaranews.com/en/news/112026/indonesia-plans-to-buy-sukhoi-su-35

On that occasion he also mentioned that Indonesia wouuld like to build up MALE UCAV, with Chinese supplier being mentioned as prefered one due to Chinese wilingness to supplied armed UAV or UCAV..
Well the last one seems again another bargaining move..as DI also made agreement with TAI on MALE UAV development based on current TAI ANKA MALE UAV. At the same time still talk with European supplier like Thales for MALE UAV. Afterall he already indicated tot and price as part on MALE UAV deal.

This is part of Jokowi ambition to relly more on UAV for maritime patrol and border survailance and even used more UAV for ISTAR job.
Will see where this going to..

 

[r0m8470]

Well, minister of defence confirmed that Mindef already got official approval to procured at least 11 SU-35. At the same time also aknowledged that the deal has been in negotiation stage for more than 2 years.
Indonesia pastikan beli Sukhoi untuk perkuat pertahanan udara - ANTARA News

ANTARA News : Portal Berita Indonesia

On that occasion he also mentioned that Indonesia wouuld like to build up MALE UCAV, with Chinese supplier being mentioned as prefered one due to Chinese wilingness to supplied armed UAV or UCAV..
Well the last one seems again another bargaining move..as DI also made agreement with TAI on MALE UAV development based on current TAI ANKA MALE UAV. At the same time still talk with European supplier like Thales for MALE UAV. Afterall he already indicated tot and price as part on MALE UAV deal.

This is part of Jokowi ambition to relly more on UAV for maritime patrol and border survailance and even used more UAV for ISTAR job.
Will see where this going to..

What interest me the most is the fascination of the Air Force with Su-35. Is the experience with Flankers in the fleet already is so much better compared to everything else? I do not recall that there was a fly off or in-depth deliberation/selection process. There are options out there - Gripen E, Rafale, Typhoon, F-16, and arguably F/A-18E if the Air Force chose to engage Boeing.

It seems that the Air Force is hell-bent on getting the Su-35, come hell or high water. I just hope that it is as good as advertised, with the right TCO for the budget.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well, minister of defence confirmed that Mindef already got official approval to procured at least 11 SU-35. At the same time also aknowledged that the deal has been in negotiation stage for more than 2 years.
Indonesia pastikan beli Sukhoi untuk perkuat pertahanan udara - ANTARA News

ANTARA News : Portal Berita Indonesia

On that occasion he also mentioned that Indonesia wouuld like to build up MALE UCAV, with Chinese supplier being mentioned as prefered one due to Chinese wilingness to supplied armed UAV or UCAV..
Well the last one seems again another bargaining move..as DI also made agreement with TAI on MALE UAV development based on current TAI ANKA MALE UAV. At the same time still talk with European supplier like Thales for MALE UAV. Afterall he already indicated tot and price as part on MALE UAV deal.

This is part of Jokowi ambition to relly more on UAV for maritime patrol and border survailance and even used more UAV for ISTAR job.
Will see where this going to..

"Memastikan"...in this two years of negotiations, planning and daydreaming....still no any contract signed. And even then, maybe those 8-12 Sukhois will be in a "fitted for but not with configuration". Maybe with some components like sensors and ECM not installed, without a weaponpackage and a little bit downgraded...all because of budget limitations....

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

What interest me the most is the fascination of the Air Force with Su-35. Is the experience with Flankers in the fleet already is so much better compared to everything else? I do not recall that there was a fly off or in-depth deliberation/selection process. There are options out there - Gripen E, Rafale, Typhoon, F-16, and arguably F/A-18E if the Air Force chose to engage Boeing.

It seems that the Air Force is hell-bent on getting the Su-35, come hell or high water. I just hope that it is as good as advertised, with the right TCO for the budget.

Maybe there are several factors, but I think because TNI-AU already has the Su-27/30... "The Flankers we have are good, but the Su-35 is even better!"
The F-16s are indeed also good jetfighters, but the biggest problems of buying American equipment is the big chance of embargos.
The European fighters are great too, but that means a third model of front line fighter.

 

[ADMk2]

Maybe there are several factors, but I think because TNI-AU already has the Su-27/30... "The Flankers we have are good, but the Su-35 is even better!"
The F-16s are indeed also good jetfighters, but the biggest problems of buying American equipment is the big chance of embargos.
The European fighters are great too, but that means a third model of front line fighter.

Has an embargo on TNI-AU fighter operations ever been imposed by the US or anyone else?