Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[ngatimozart]

Don't blame them in a way. Anak Krakatoa is a concern and although it isn't anywhere near as dangerous as Toba, it is nothing to be laughed at either. Toba is a supervolcano and quite capable of an eruption that would be an extinction level event. We have one the same here, Taupo. Another is under Naples, one in Siberia, and of course there is Yellowstone. Can't remember offhand where the other 3 are.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Don't blame them in a way. Anak Krakatoa is a concern and although it isn't anywhere near as dangerous as Toba, it is nothing to be laughed at either. Toba is a supervolcano and quite capable of an eruption that would be an extinction level event. We have one the same here, Taupo. Another is under Naples, one in Siberia, and of course there is Yellowstone. Can't remember offhand where the other 3 are.

The last devastating major eruption occurred 69.000 to 77.000 years ago, so i thought the Toba Supervolcano was a dead volcano, but it seems it is not death at all.


(This list of supervolcanos is stolen from Wikipedia)

Ultra-Plinian	Mega-colossal	> 20 km	> 50,000 yrs[4][5]	vast	vast
Wah Wah Springs (30,000,000 BC), La Garita (26,300,000 BC), Ōdai Caldera (13,700,000 BC), Cerro Galán (2,200,000 BC), Huckleberry Ridge Tuff (2,100,000 BC), Yellowstone (630,000 BC), Whakamaru (in TVZ) (254,000 BC),[6] Toba (74,000 BC), Taupo (26,500

 

[ngatimozart]

Toba is definitely not extinct, it is dormant - sleeping.

 

[deadlast]

I just wonder how the video of the sinking ship is recorded, with the NC212MPA or the CN235-220MPA?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=273562861066512

Video: Indonesian Navy KCR-40-class missile craft in Sinking Exercise - Naval News

The Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) KCR-40-class fast attack craft missile (FACM), KRI Clurit (641) and KRI Kujang (642) took part in a sinking exercice (SINKEX). Two chinese-made C-705 anti-ship missiles were fired and sank former oiler KRI Balikpapan (901) at Natuna Waters.

www.navalnews.com

Seems that the KRI Balikpapan 901 is retired in November 2019.
More info of the history of the ship: KRI Balikpapan 901: Kapal Tanker Tua Peninggalan Perang Dingin

That history piece of KRI Balikpapan from indomiliter just a bit weird or misleading, TNI-AL does own a Khobi-class before but only one, not two (Balikpapan & Sambu) and it was called RI Pakan Baru/Pekanbaru circa 1959 (russianships.info & Jane's Fighting Ship), there are no more details or info beyond this though.

For what my google search got about these ship (Balikpapan & Sambu), according to "Translations on South and East Asia: Volumes 772-784" by Joint Publications Research Service (JPRS) from KOMPAS article on April 12, 1978, both KRI Balikpapan & KRI Sambu were in fact both acquired from Japan, not from USSR. Further google search point me to a mention for one of these ship (without reference) on Malaysian wiki page detailing that KRI Balikpapan did originated from Japan, transferred in March 7, 1978 and were made by Ujima shipyard as MS Akita Maru in 1965. For other mention I could find, details them as a copy of Khobi-class produce by Japan in 1960s found in Jane's Fighting Ships 2004-2009 series book.

TLDR, they're both likely were sourced from Japan, not Khobi-class from USSR like the Indomiliter cite them to be. A bit of FYI after trying to figure out the background from some of these obscure ship in Indonesian navy inventory for a long time now.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

That history piece of KRI Balikpapan from indomiliter just a bit weird or misleading, TNI-AL does own a Khobi-class before but only one, not two (Balikpapan & Sambu) and it was called RI Pakan Baru/Pekanbaru circa 1959 (russianships.info & Jane's Fighting Ship), there are no more details or info beyond this though.

For what my google search got about these ship (Balikpapan & Sambu), according to "Translations on South and East Asia: Volumes 772-784" by Joint Publications Research Service (JPRS) from KOMPAS article on April 12, 1978, both KRI Balikpapan & KRI Sambu were in fact both acquired from Japan, not from USSR. Further google search point me to a mention for one of these ship (without reference) on Malaysian wiki page detailing that KRI Balikpapan did originated from Japan, transferred in March 7, 1978 and were made by Ujima shipyard as MS Akita Maru in 1965. For other mention I could find, details them as a copy of Khobi-class produce by Japan in 1960s found in Jane's Fighting Ships 2004-2009 series book.

TLDR, they're both likely were sourced from Japan, not Khobi-class from USSR like the Indomiliter cite them to be. A bit of FYI after trying to figure out the background from some of these obscure ship in Indonesian navy inventory for a long time now.

Yes it is a little bit confusing.
Some sources say it is a Soviet ship, others a Japanese ship, and some are indeed saying that it is a Japanese copy of a Soviet design...

And now something funny.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382036361566310400

Since when is the Improved Chang Bogo/Nagapasa class an unlicenced copy of the Type 209?

 

[Ananda]

Since when is the Improved Chang Bogo/Nagapasa class an unlicenced copy of the Type 209?

Don't forget that he's in the end depend his bread and butter with Euro OEM. They're now in competition with DSME to secure next batch submarine deals.

All those so called Local Defense Analyst in the end part of Defense Lobbyist that being used by OEM. However his logic on calling DSME 1400 as unlicensed copy from 209 same as calling Philippines Tarlac class as Unlicensed PAL copy from Daesun design. If it's unlicensed copy, don't you think the original design owners already take legal action ?

This is just part of subtle smeared campaign toward competition products. After all those 'Analyst' that also spreading info on DSME 1400 problem. Again Defense is big business.

Add:
If his 'rumours' is true that TNI-AL wants 144m length design changes on Iver based design, then they want to compare with FREMM and Damen Omega. Both have design in that area.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The JMSDF just uploaded some photos.
They can maybe join exercises next time around Natuna.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1382204469165793280

And at last the official video of the commissioning of the KRI Alugoro 405.

And here we have a better video of the launch of the C-705 missile. Video is from KOARMADA 1.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Looks like a very nice design, and although it is even smaller than the Type 205 or 206 submarines, i have my doubt that Indonesia (PAL) is suddenly capable in building submarines after just assembling the KRI Alugoro 405.

 

[Arji]

i have my doubt that Indonesia (PAL) is suddenly capable in building submarines after just assembling the KRI Alugoro 405.

Probably not, but if they want to give a shot a designing a submarine on their own, I don't see why not... Could be a good learning experience in terms of identifying which facility (testing, manufacturing, etc) need to be developed more.

 

[chiphocks]

Looks like a very nice design, and although it is even smaller than the Type 205 or 206 submarines, i have my doubt that Indonesia (PAL) is suddenly capable in building submarines after just assembling the KRI Alugoro 405.

btw we already start this program with SAAB in 2017.

BPPT – SAAB Swedia Teken MoU Rekayasa Teknologi Wahana Bawah Air

Badan Pengkajian dan Penerapan Teknologi (BPPT) bersama SAAB Swedia dan Universitas Pertahanan serta menandatangani nota kesepahaman (MoU) terkait kaji...

www.bppt.go.id

 

[Ananda]

Looks like a very nice design, and although it is even smaller than the Type 205 or 206 submarines, i have my doubt that Indonesia (PAL) is suddenly capable in building submarines after just assembling the KRI Alugoro 405.

Could be a good learning experience in terms of identifying which facility (testing, manufacturing, etc) need to be developed more.

One thing for sure, eventough DSME 1400 first batch begin in SBY era, this administration thus follow up with the project including building Submarine Yard and supporting facilities. Unlike their still questionable intentions for IFX project that so far they only build empty hangar for that project in DI (minus assembly, jigs and support infrastructure).

Thus in theory this design can be use as part of PAL learning curve. They (BPPT and PAL) can engage with outside consultant to iron out the design. Even if PAL already committed with second batch submarine projects (either still with DSME or other partner), they can sub-contract the job to other yards and ship the modules to PAL submarine facilities for final fitting. This design also claim by local naval design company (Terafulk), so perhaps the design with BPPT stamp already got more traction.

Anyway is still a design. There were several design for mini submarine before in past Indodefence. Let's see how this developed. Remember before they're also talking with Naval Group for their small littoral submarine design Andrasta. So there's seems interest for small littoral design submarine.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The start of the construction of two new naval facilities at Natuna.

 

[Ananda]

Adding on the article at post 1,481 below, from Keris FB page there're pictures of Natuna's Submarine Auxiliary Base.

KSAL Resmikan Pembangunan Stasiun Bantu Kapal Selam di Natuna Halaman all - Kompas.com

Laksamana Yudo Margono menandatangani prasasti pembangunan stasiun bantu kapal selam dan peresmian Mes Tjiptadi, di Selat Lampa, Natuna. Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

On the first picture, it's shown charging and support berth/station that's seems only enough to service one submarine. Thus I believe this's support my prediction that the Auxiliary Base ability only to support one submarine at the time.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia engages German, Turkish firms to customise frigate design

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has engaged German naval consultancy, MTG Marinetechnik, and Turkish engineering firm FIGES AS, to customise the design of a...

www.janes.com

About a week ago I see the article on MinDef site talk about this. This related to Iver Based Frigates program.

Badan Sarana Pertahanan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id

That time, I'm bit confused. Whether this means they (MinDef) talking about Iver Based design from Babcock, with another design they work using German and Turkish consultant.

However seems the article in Jane's indicating both are Iver based design. Babcock come out with Iver Base design on their own work (related to type 31), while MinDef also working on with German and Turkish consultant to work on more customize Iver base design.

This's seems related to what I've been put in this thread sometimes ago. Seems Odense now open it's based design to be work out with different consultants. This create attraction for MinDef on potential to have their own design base. While on other hand Babcock design still practically similar to original Odense Iver based on dimensions, thus supposedly less riskier design.

However with they're looking on potential customising the design, makes me wonder what are they looking on in here. If this part of 2 Iver based Frigates that the budget actually being agree on principle from 2020, then creating new derivative design means more work and potential different cost structure then the design that being agreed from previous preliminary contract in 2020.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia engages German, Turkish firms to customise frigate design

Indonesian state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL has engaged German naval consultancy, MTG Marinetechnik, and Turkish engineering firm FIGES AS, to customise the design of a...

www.janes.com

About a week ago I see the article on MinDef site talk about this. This related to Iver Based Frigates program.

Badan Sarana Pertahanan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id

That time, I'm bit confused. Whether this means they (MinDef) talking about Iver Based design from Babcock, with another design they work using German and Turkish consultant.

However seems the article in Jane's indicating both are Iver based design. Babcock come out with Iver Base design on their own work (related to type 31), while MinDef also working on with German and Turkish consultant to work on more customize Iver base design.

This's seems related to what I've been put in this thread sometimes ago. Seems Odense now open it's based design to be work out with different consultants. This create attraction for MinDef on potential to have their own design base. While on other hand Babcock design still practically similar to original Odense Iver based on dimensions, thus supposedly less riskier design.

However with they're looking on potential customising the design, makes me wonder what are they looking on in here. If this part of 2 Iver based Frigates that the budget actually being agree on principle from 2020, then creating new derivative design means more work and potential different cost structure then the design that being agreed from previous preliminary contract in 2020.

Thank you for sharing.
It is a little bit confusing, but it seems the Iver Huitfeldt/Arrow 140 design is a step further than the other candidates.

 

[Ananda]

it seems the Iver Huitfeldt/Arrow 140 design is a step further than the other candidates.

Seems this is still related to preliminary contract for two Iver Base frigates that being submitted in first half of 2020.

Kecanggihan Kapal Perang Fregat Iver yang Akan Dibangun PT PAL

PT PAL Indonesia akan membangun dua unit kapal perang frigate kelas Iver Huitfeldt senilai 720 juta USD (Rp 11 triliun), bekerja sama dengan Denmark.

foto.tempo.co

Thus if this is part of completion on that preliminary contract, then it's not related to additional Frigates batch (that Jane's also talk on 4 candidate design). I do see that, since after I read more on both Jane's and MinDef articles, it's seems related to PT. PAL work out. Thus it implies on existing job contract that already being signed.

So there's still potential drama on follow on Frigate projects, as it is still in Ministrial stages (both in MinDef and Ministry of Finance) related to the choices from one of four design.

Then again I could be wrong, as just like you, I do have confusion on how the whole Frigates projects being structure. Whether the preliminary contract for PT. PAL in 2020 for two Iver based frigate is treate seperately or not. So far seems the 2020 preliminary contract indicated as seperate project with the new Frigate projects (with 4 design candidates).

Anyway the choices seems either Babcock Arrow 140 design or customise design with both German and Turkish consultants. This perhaps answered part of the tweet that you're posting at #1,505. That 'guy' tweet seems talk on either use existing 'proven' Iver design or customise ones.

 

[Arji]

So does this means we're not taking the 30 FFM? I admit, I'm not too familiar with our frigate procurement plan.

 

[tonnyc]

So does this means we're not taking the 30 FFM? I admit, I'm not too familiar with our frigate procurement plan.

Too early to say. And it could be both too, or neither. If you've been watching the Indonesian defense procurement then you know how it is.

Until there's a contract signing, nothing is sure. And even if there's a contract signed, it's still uncertain until it's actually delivered.

 

[thatsamguy]

Fingers crossed it's just a comms equipment failure - never something you want to see. Best of luck to those involved.

JAKARTA (Reuters) - The Indonesian navy is making checks on one of its submarines after the vessel failed to report back results of a training exercise on Wednesday, a navy spokesman said.

The submarine was taking part in a torpedo drill in North Bali waters but failed to relay results of the exercise as expected, spokesman Julius Widjojono said.

Ref: Indonesian navy checking on submarine after failure to report back from exercise

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Fingers crossed it's just a comms equipment failure - never something you want to see. Best of luck to those involved.



Ref: Indonesian navy checking on submarine after failure to report back from exercise

Thank you for sharing.

Earlier this day i saw a report that KOARMAR II planned a live-fire exercise with two patrol boats and one submarine.

It is still unclear which submarine it is.

Breaking News: TNI AL Dalami Kabar Kapal Selam Hilang Kontak di Perairan Bali

TNI Angkatan Laut sedang mengecek laporan hilang kontak salah satu kapal selam yang sedang menjalani latihan torpedo di perairan Bali.

www.inews.id

Edit:
It seems to be KRI Nanggala 402.


Update:
There are reports that MV Swift Resque a left Singapore a couple of hours ago.
But it looks like it is still standby in the strait between Singapore and Batam.

SWIFT RESCUE Current position (Offshore Support Vessel, IMO 9536519) - VesselFinder

SWIFT RESCUE last position is 1 N, 104 E heading to Singapore. TRACK ON MAP...

www.vesselfinder.com

More onfo about the ship:

Fact Sheet: Arrangement between the Republic of Singapore Navy and the Indonesian Navy Concerning Submarine Rescue Support and Cooperation

The arrangement establishes a framework of submarine rescue support and cooperation between the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) and the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL). It also reaffirms the close and long-standing cooperation between the two navies, which is underpinned by regular interactions...

www.mindef.gov.sg

MV Swift Rescue - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org