Indian Hyper sonic missile program

faheem

New Member
I was reading the news paper. I read an article that the Indian officals announced that India will be the first country to built a hypersonic missile.
i was suprised to read this Is there no country in the world that have a hypersonic missile. i think this news that i read is not correct.

if there is no country with hypersonic missile in the world. Is India has enough
tech to built first hypersonic missile before Russia , America and China
 

aaaditya

New Member
well that is an overstatement ,india had ground tested the engine.now there are setting up facilities for airframe design.

India's maiden hypersonic wind tunnel under construction:-
Thiruvananthapuram | June 28, 2005 12:40:20 PM IST

Thiruvananthapuram, June 28 : Work on India's first hypersonic wind tunnel (HWT) is under way at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) here. Only a handful of countries can boast of an HWT.

Scientists at VSSC are now burning the midnight oil because the HWT is to become a vital ingredient in further development of India's space programmes particularly when India is looking at reusable launch vehicles.

Wind tunnels have undergone enormous development over the years. The current breed of supersonic wind tunnels (SWT) marked the development of turbojet which ushered in an era of supersonic aircrafts that travel two or three times the speed of sound.

Hypersonic travel is expected to be 5-25 times the speed of sound.

The investigations that are carried out in the wind tunnel include total aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft models and their components including tests with engine jets simulation pressure distribution over models surfaces, models of inlets and aircraft with flow through in the internal channels, aircraft components interference during their separation and heat exchange parameters.

The SWT produces supersonic speeds (Mach numbers up to five) while in the HWT Tunnels the Mach numbers between five and 15.

The VSSC, which is the lead centre for India's launch vehicle development, began its operations in 1963 from the premises of St. Mary Magdalene's Church, 10 km from here.

India's first Nike-Apache sounding rocket was launched on Nov 21, 1963 at the Thumba Equatorial Rocket Launching Station (TERLS), which came to be known as an Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) centre in 1969.

After the death of Vikram Sarabhai, the founding father of the country's space programme in 1971, it was named the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre.

(IANS)

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/...php?newsid=3139 :coffee


see what i mean the goal for development of this missile(reusable launcher) is 2015.

so it is still in a very premature stage.:coffee
 

doggychow14

New Member
Well a wind tunnel does not mean India has the capabilites. IN order to create a hypersonic missile, i believe you need a scramjet engine. And this India does not posses. The US (i think) is the only country that is currently undergoing tests of the scramjet engine with the X-43 x plane. Sry just checked, Australia, Japan, and the SUs are developing the scramjet engine
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
doggychow14 said:
Australia, Japan, and the SUs are developing the scramjet engine
Nope, IIRC

Australia was the first country to reach Mach 8. There are Mach 10 tests later this year

"HyShot

On July 30, 2002, the University of Queensland's HyShot team successfully conducted the first ever test flight of a scramjet.

The team took a unique approach to the problem of accelerating the engine to the necessary speed by using an Orion-Terrier rocket to take the aircraft up on a parabolic trajectory to an altitude of 314 km. As the craft re-entered the atmosphere, it dropped to a speed of Mach 7.6. The scramjet engine then started, and it flew at about Mach 7.6 for 6 seconds. [1]. This was achieved on a lean budget of just A$1.5 million (US $1.1 million), a tiny fraction of NASA's $US 250 million to develop the X-43A.

NASA has partially explained the tremendous difference in cost between the two projects by pointing out that the American vehicle has an engine fully incorporated into an airframe with a full complement of flight control surfaces available. "


France has tested to Mach 6.5 (in collaboration with the Russians)

US has also tested to Mach 8 and is due for a Mach 10 test later this year. They ran Mach 3 platforms about 40 years ago.

Highsea will need to confirm the US tests.

Also the US and Aust are running a shared programme.
 
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highsea

New Member
The X-43A made Mach 9.6 last November. That was the final flight of that program (Hyper-X).

There are other ongoing projects, HY-FLY is for sustained cruise at Mach 6+ (400 nm), and Falcon is for a reusable hypersonic vehicle that can deliver 12,000 lb. payloads up to 9,000 nm. from CONUS within 2 hours.

Falcon is the culmination of the three programs, the objective is to have a delivery system and weapons system tests completed by 2009. The actual flight profile is defined as 9000nm in 3000 seconds.

http://www.darpa.mil/tto/programs/falcon.html

http://www.air-attack.com/page.php?pid=32
 
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aaaditya

New Member
india has already ground tested the scramjet engine as well as a cryogenic engine ,india is now currently developing a scale model of this hyperplane design
(i beleive it is based on a design rejected by the usa but picked up and developed by the indians).it is supposed to take of vertically and land conventionally(that is for the isro project also known as the re-usable space launcher ,its actual variant is supposed to weigh around 300 tons with a 30 ton payload),the drdo is developing one for the airforce which is to be used for high spead reconaissance,electronic warfare and ground strike roles ,this system is expected to be of the same size as the mig25(i will try and post their images on the indian millitary images thread):coffee
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
aaaditya said:
india has already ground tested the scramjet engine
How do you ground test a scramjet engine without forced induction and no wind tunnel?
 

highsea

New Member
IIRC, they got a model of a combustor to hold a flame in a wind tunnel last year. Obviously not at hypersonic speeds, since India doesn't have a wind tunnel that can get to those velocities.

The plan was to launch a model from a sounding rocket sometime next year.

aaaditya- do a search through the old posts, it's back there somewhere. No need to repost the article here again. You need to be a little more discriminating about what you post, the other day you posted an article about Cope Thunder that was a year old. The idea is to generate discussion, not to just post articles for the sake of posting.
 

highsea

New Member
aaaditya said:
dear highsea check the news article which i posted the date says june28 2005 so how exactly is it an old post.(i beleive it's been posted for the first time here.).:mad:
Just because you posted it 2 days ago doesn't mean it's a current article. The article you posted is about last years Cope Thunder excersize, not the one that is just finishing up. India did not participate in Cope Thunder this year. See these threads:

http://defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1838&highlight=Cope+Thunder

http://defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2326&highlight=Cope+Thunder

http://defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1809&highlight=Cope+Thunder
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The following thread was deleted as its off topic. Please note this threads title subject and stay on track.


aaaditya said:
well i think the mirage2000-5 would cost around 45-55 million
dollars each.

dear highsea check the news article which i posted the date says june28 2005 so how exactly is it an old post.(i beleive it's been posted for the first time here.).:mad:
 

powerslavenegi

New Member
doggychow14 said:
Well a wind tunnel does not mean India has the capabilites. IN order to create a hypersonic missile, i believe you need a scramjet engine. And this India does not posses. The US (i think) is the only country that is currently undergoing tests of the scramjet engine with the X-43 x plane. Sry just checked, Australia, Japan, and the SUs are developing the scramjet engine
Sorry dude Russians have done it yet again while US is still busy experimenting with X-43 .Russians have tested and deployed Topol m(ICBM) reported to have clocked 10800 miles/hr as compared to 7200 miles/hr rec. set by X-43 A.

http://www.rense.com/general69/tiddosdzdd27makes.htm
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4057
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
powerslavenegi said:
Sorry dude Russians have done it yet again while US is still busy experimenting with X-43 .Russians have tested and deployed Topol m(ICBM) reported to have clocked 10800 miles/hr as compared to 7200 miles/hr rec. set by X-43 A.

http://www.rense.com/general69/tiddosdzdd27makes.htm
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4057
Before criticising others it would pay you to understand the terminology and the concepts first.
  • all ballistic missiles have a hypersonic speed stage
  • ballistic missiles are not hypersonic missiles
  • Topol is not a Hypersonic missile - it's a ballistic missile
  • The German V2 hit hypersonic speeds - as did the Saturn5 that helped put US Astronauts on the moon - yet they are both not hypersonic missiles as they are ballistic rockets.
Hypersonic missiles are not ballistic missiles. Arguing that the Topol is hypersonic over the X-43 is completely inaccurate as it is not in the platform class or definition.

The comparison is not only erroneus, it's completely wrong. One could just as well argue that because a Saturn 5 does 25,000mph that its hypersonic as well - that would be just as idiotic a claim.

Some journalists should stick to reporting car accidents and stay away from things military.
 
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b_karan

New Member
INDIA's HYPERPLANE

aaaditya said:
india has already ground tested the scramjet engine as well as a cryogenic engine ,india is now currently developing a scale model of this hyperplane design
(i beleive it is based on a design rejected by the usa but picked up and developed by the indians).it is supposed to take of vertically and land conventionally(that is for the isro project also known as the re-usable space launcher ,its actual variant is supposed to weigh around 300 tons with a 30 ton payload),the drdo is developing one for the airforce which is to be used for high spead reconaissance,electronic warfare and ground strike roles ,this system is expected to be of the same size as the mig25(i will try and post their images on the indian millitary images thread):coffee
India has indeed tested Scramjet and Cryogenic and is in the process of building HYPERPLANE . Please see below :



Home > News > PTI

India aims to fly hypersonic plane in 2007

January 01, 2004 17:17 IST
Last Updated: January 01, 2004 21:27 IST


Indian defence scientists are aiming to build a plane designed to cruise at speeds three times faster than existing fighter aircraft while consuming less fuel.

The Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) is building an 8metre technology demonstrator, which will be powered by a supersonic combustion ramjet (Scramjet) engine that takes oxygen from the atmosphere and burns liquid hydrogen.

"The ground tests of the engine would begin in 2005 and we aim to fly the unmanned aircraft in 2007," DRDL Director Prahlada told PTI in Bangalore.

The aircraft would be built in India's aviation capital, Bangalore, and Hyderabad. It would be a high speed transport aircraft with an engine that does not have a compressor or a turbine.

"The scramjet engine takes in oxygen from the atmosphere, liquefies it and uses it for the cryogenic engine, improving the efficiency of the plane by several factors because the weight of the fuel, particularly for long distances, constitutes around 70 per cent of the total weight of the aircraft," officials said.

The technology demonstrator would be a precursor to President A P J Abdul Kalam's dream project and DRDO's Aerobic Vehicle for Hypersonic Aerospace Transportation (AVATAR).

India has achieved considerable progress in the air breathing engine technology (ramjet) at sub-sonic speed in its surface-to-air Akash missile programme, but is yet to master the technology at supersonic speed of up to Mach 7 (speed of sound is referred to as Mach). "We are improving on our expertise in air breathing engine technology and it would be used in an unmanned aircraft," Prahlada said.

Incidentally, the country is in race with the US, Japan, Russia and China to build a hypersonic plane which is expected to revolutionise low cost space travel. The Indian Space Research Organisation has begun conceptual studies to build and launch a reusable launch vehicle using air-breathing technology by 2015, he said.

DRDL is jointly working with academic institutions, including the IITs and the Indian Institute of Science, besides collaborating with the Mishra Dathu Nigam (Midani) to develop high temperature Nickel-Cobalt alloys and carbon composite materials, which could withstand heat during high-speed flight of the hyper plane.


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AMITLCA

New Member
IT IS NO SUPRISE THAT INDIA IS GOING FORWARD WITH THIS PROJECT .HOWEVER IT HAD RECENTLY ACQUIRED SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS IN HYPERSONIC ENGINE DEVELOPMENT.IT IS SAID THAT IT WILL GO FORWARD WITH HYPERSONIC TEST FLIGHT IN NEAR 2007 SOMEWHERE IN ANDHRA PRADESH.MIND YOU INDIA IS NOT FAR BEHIND ITS IMEDIATE COMPETITER CHINA.IN FACT IN SOME FIELDS IT HAS PROVED ITS MIGHT WHERE CHINA HAS FAILED.FOR EXAMPLE CHINA HASN'T HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS IN THE FIELD OF MILITARY PLANES EXCEPT SOME COPIED ONES{which deserve no appreciation}WHERE HAS INDIA HAD MADE INDEGENIOUS LCA WHICH MAY NOT BE FAMOUS BUT FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN FC-1
 

faheem

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
AMITLCA said:
IT IS NO SUPRISE THAT INDIA IS GOING FORWARD WITH THIS PROJECT .HOWEVER IT HAD RECENTLY ACQUIRED SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS IN HYPERSONIC ENGINE DEVELOPMENT.IT IS SAID THAT IT WILL GO FORWARD WITH HYPERSONIC TEST FLIGHT IN NEAR 2007 SOMEWHERE IN ANDHRA PRADESH.MIND YOU INDIA IS NOT FAR BEHIND ITS IMEDIATE COMPETITER CHINA.IN FACT IN SOME FIELDS IT HAS PROVED ITS MIGHT WHERE CHINA HAS FAILED.FOR EXAMPLE CHINA HASN'T HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS IN THE FIELD OF MILITARY PLANES EXCEPT SOME COPIED ONES{which deserve no appreciation}WHERE HAS INDIA HAD MADE INDEGENIOUS LCA WHICH MAY NOT BE FAMOUS BUT FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN FC-1
And you call CHENDGU J-10. Is it a success or not
 

aaaditya

New Member
here is some additional information about the avatar hyperplane :

1) it will weigh about 25 tons ,60% (15 tons ) will be fuel ,

2)it will require very less amount of commercial fuel(aviation kerosene) ,it will carry liquid hydrogen on board,

3)it will collect and liquify the oxeygen during its flight,this technology has already been patented and is unique to the indian design (all the others tested so far use scramjet engines )

4) a scramjet engine has already been successfully tested,and also a cryogenic engine.

5)the avatar will be able to carry a 1000kg payload.

6)it can be launched vertically like a rocket and also can take off and land like an ordinary aircraft.

7)it is expected to have a cruise speed of around 10 mach(11880kms/hr)

8)as a part of this programme ,reentry technology and the ceramic heat shield technology are to be tested this year end on a recoverable satellite.
 

faheem

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
aaaditya said:
here is some additional information about the avatar hyperplane :

1) it will weigh about 25 tons ,60% (15 tons ) will be fuel ,

2)it will require very less amount of commercial fuel(aviation kerosene) ,it will carry liquid hydrogen on board,

3)it will collect and liquify the oxeygen during its flight,this technology has already been patented and is unique to the indian design (all the others tested so far use scramjet engines )

4) a scramjet engine has already been successfully tested,and also a cryogenic engine.

5)the avatar will be able to carry a 1000kg payload.

6)it can be launched vertically like a rocket and also can take off and land like an ordinary aircraft.

7)it is expected to have a cruise speed of around 10 mach(11880kms/hr)

8)as a part of this programme ,reentry technology and the ceramic heat shield technology are to be tested this year end on a recoverable satellite.
Hey from which source you got this information me and the others would like to know about it
 

aaaditya

New Member
faheem said:
Hey from which source you got this information me and the others would like to know about it
this is pretty open and common information and has also been posted on this forum,however i took this information from two sources a week magazine that i have and also an article on the avatar hyperplane project posted in the keypublishing and the bharat rakshak forum.

i believe i have posted several sources regarding this project on this forum,
i had also posted an image of india's hstv project(this is a drdo project ,completely independent of the avatar project ,which is a isro project).

you can get this information about the avatar hyperplane just by googling it.
 

aaaditya

New Member
i dont think i have posted this image ,but this is a design digramme of the avatar hyperplane and the specifications of the the hstdv.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6748/hstdv0gw.jpg

here is the link to article on the indian air breathing engine:

http://www.hindu.com/seta/2006/01/19/stories/2006011900151500.htm

the above article also emphasises the advantage of this technology over the conventional solid fuel and ram jet technology.

here is an article on the indigenous cryogenic rocket engine.

http://www.spacemart.com/news/ISRO_To_Launch_Indigenous_Cryogenic_Engine_This_Year.html

regarding the successfull testing of the indian air breathing engine ,here is the link ,this engine was tested to full power for 10 seconds.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=60800

here is an article from tribune (dated 2004),which gives some information on the indian scram jet engine.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040630/nation.htm#4

and most importantly this is the isro newsletter on their scram jet engine and the air liquifying technology,this article dated jan 10-2006 also highlights the benefits of the use of this technology(the cost benefits).

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/Jan10_2006.htm

and as the grand finale for this post ,heer is a link on the us hypersonic vehicle project just for your reading and understanding of the technology:

http://www.space.com/spacenews/businessmonday_031020.html
 
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