I guess this is pretty much a comparison, isnt it? Moreover the intend of my post was to correct you in your view of the 093 SSN being an adequate counterpart for a Akula II. It is certainly not.
well, I am not with the sub community and I guess you are not, too?! Otherwise I couldnt explain your evaluation of the 093 SSN. Simply said, SSN vs. SSN scenarious are far from being not realistic, so the 093 vs. Akula II argument is valid since both vessels may encounter each other and then it comes to hunter/killer capabilities. Or do you think they will turn away from each other saying: "Hey, that isnt a boomer...not worth our time."?!
Did I say anything in that direction?
Yeah well. I cant see your point. I didnt say anything against Pakistan aquiring SSN-capability. I just stated that your claim of the 093 being an adequate counterpart is not valid. Also I said that the procurement of 093 SSN by the pakistani navy within the time the Indians get their hands on a useful vessel is unlikely, based on the initial news that they get the Akula II in the next time, of course...for the reasons I stated above.
Whats the worth of credibility if this is based on obsolete subs?
The 093 is designed and intended to be an SSN. If its attack capability is limited this makes it an insufficient SSN, but not automatically an SSGN. I recommend to compare capabilities of a SSGN like Oscar/II to these of the 093 and you see what I mean.
Actually, it refers to those who serve, have served in subs or are tied up in the sub building industry. At an operator level it's never referred to as a group of unprofessionals with a similar interest. Hobbyists and armchair admirals/generals are never considered a "community" as far as professionals are concerned. It basically gets down to who is sharing the knowledge and whether they are respected within their sphere of either operation or influence.corsair7772 said:
Actually there are very specific ways to assess another platform without seeing it in the water. Some very clear "visions" can be made without tagging it. You misunderstand how intelligence collection occurs if you think that there is no info on the 93. There is very clearly info about within the "sub community" about what are some of the design aspects and where components and some design features are being made.doggychow14 said:
If that is pointed to me: I didnt say anything like that. Corsair7772 started to talk of limited capabilities. If it wasnt pointed to me, ignore this sentence.
Firstly I'd like to know whom you are talking of by referring to "No1". Corsair? Please understand that I am lacking some knowledge of "insider names" here and have a need for the real nicks, otherwise I wont be able to respond to your posts properly!
Actually it does not. Since you surely are aware of the specs of modern SSN, you know, that Los Angeles SSN carry Tomahawk CM including a VLS system since 1982. The projected Astude Class does that as well. Akula class SSN carry the Granat cruise missiles. Not a single one of these subs is classified as an SSGN. They are SSN. But I guess, you got some more points beyond the CM capability to validate your point. Just go ahead! Also if you take a look at the hull layout of the already mentioned Oscar/II, you will see the specific requirements of an SSGN to be classified as such a sub. Simply being able to fire CM does not automatically make an SSGN or SSN/SSGN "blend" or whatever.
First of all i dont know why you read my posts microscopically. I specifically mentioned that i was being rough in my explaination, i dont take pride in hammering other peoples heads with little known terms and knowledge. But your darn right when you say that simply firing cruise missiles doesnt make a blend of an ssn and ssgn.turin said:If that is pointed to me: I didnt say anything like that. Corsair7772 started to talk of limited capabilities. If it wasnt pointed to me, ignore this sentence.
Firstly I'd like to know whom you are talking of by referring to "No1". Corsair? Please understand that I am lacking some knowledge of "insider names" here and have a need for the real nicks, otherwise I wont be able to respond to your posts properly!
Actually it does not. Since you surely are aware of the specs of modern SSN, you know, that Los Angeles SSN carry Tomahawk CM including a VLS system since 1982. The projected Astude Class does that as well. Akula class SSN carry the Granat cruise missiles. Not a single one of these subs is classified as an SSGN. They are SSN. But I guess, you got some more points beyond the CM capability to validate your point. Just go ahead! Also if you take a look at the hull layout of the already mentioned Oscar/II, you will see the specific requirements of an SSGN to be classified as such a sub. Simply being able to fire CM does not automatically make an SSGN or SSN/SSGN "blend" or whatever.
I thought it was obvious from my post, who "belongs" to the sub community and who dont. Calling it an organization or asking for membership is a curious thing to do however. Over here you are a part of the "sub community" if you serve on a sub, are family with one who does or work in some field of construction, R&D. If you do not, you are no part of such a community but simply that what GF0012 called it, namely a "hobbyist / armchair admiral/general" and as I said before I never would even dare to call me a "member" of that community.
Feel free to give me some more info to validate your points about the 093-discussion. Otherwise happy hunting to you 2 and "arrivederci". :mrgreen
Without speaking for Turin, I guess he is doing what I do, breaking down the post so as to make my comments easier to digest for each issue. It's not an issue of microscopic analysis, but it is a legacy of analysis that we always had to do.corsair7772 said:
Well, I share gf0012-aust's point of view with that. Its simply effective in order to make sure I can adress each issue mentioned. Call it the "german way" of replying to a post if you wish.
Yeah I know you didnt say it. This part of my response included some unmarked irony since you claimed I'd think of the sub community in such terms like "organization" which I clearly do not. However I see some sharper restrictions than you do, but hey...its your opinion and you may stick to it.