India to lease nuclear submarine from Russia

[XEROX]

India to lease nuclear submarine from Russia


MOSCOW. Oct 21 (Interfax) - The Indian Navy will lease a nuclear powered submarine from Russia.

"Moscow and Delhi signed a contract, according to which, India's Navy will lease a Project 971 nuclear powered submarine [from Russia] for ten years," a high ranking source at the defense manufacturing complex told Interfax.

He said that the contract was signed in the beginning of 2004.

The submarine to be leased is a Project 971 Nerpa nuclear submarine, which is being constructed at the Amur ship building facility, Komsomolsk-na-Amure.

"It is 85% ready right now," the source said.

The submarine should be finished by 2007. An Indian crew will then arrive in Russia to train on the submarine.

According to independent experts, profits from the use of the submarine could be as much as tens of millions dollars a year.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10713283

Am i right to persume "Nerpa" can carry up to twelve Granat submarine launched cruise missiles, any chance of having popeyes or BrahMos :?:

The previous rumours where that india would have a lease-to-buy for 2 akulas with an option for a 3rd :?:

 

[srirangan]

Yep, that pretty much completes the nuclear triad that India had been yearning for ever since '98.

 

[redsoulja]

what happened to teh whole ATV or the indigenous one u guys were going for???

 

[srirangan]

Yep, that is coming up, expected around 2008-2010. Till then we can't wait and sit around without completing the nuclear triad.

 

[redsoulja]

lol the russians are going to help u wiht that one too right???
wehn wuill inda be complelelty indpendent is ome felds?
is that afew generations form now sri?

 

[srirangan]

I don't have a crystal ball in front of me so I can't tell you the exact date. The organizations are there. Infrastructure is present, and money is being pumped in. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[webmaster]

Ladies, this isn't really a LCA or Arjun thread. Almost 8 OFF TOPIC replies deleted.

 

[lalith prasad]

according to idr.jane india's atv is based on the russian charlie design however later they revised it and stated that india's atv hull design closely represents that of the russian project885 severodvinsk.which is considered to be a fourth generation submarine in the same class as the seawolf.dont know how true this is.indian submarine and design crew are currently undergoing training in russia.india faced problems in the development of reactor containment vessel small enough to fit the atv hull this was reportedly solved by the russian this was the same problem that forced the brazilians to give up their nuclear submarine programme(snac-2)..with the exception of france ,us and russia all other nations have required assistance in developing the nuclear submarines.

 

[XEROX]

Ivanov denies reports of leasing submarine to India

TOTSK TEST GROUND (Orenburg region). Oct 22 (Interfax) - Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov has denied media reports that Russia has leased a nuclear powered attack submarine of Project 971 (Akula class) to India for ten years.

"I know this subject well and I can assure you that the report is not truthful," he told the press in the Orenburg region on Friday.

"I cannot confirm this information," he said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=10713867


Indian navy denies submarine deal

The Indian navy has denied reports that a deal has been finalised with Russia for the lease of an Akula-class nuclear-powered submarine.
Navy spokesman, Commander Vinay Garg, told the BBC talks were continuing between the two countries but no agreement was completed.

He said more details could be expected by Monday.

Earlier reports from Moscow claimed India had reached agreement to lease the submarine for 10 years.


The reports said the deal was worth tens of millions of dollars.

The Akula is a sophisticated nuclear-powered submarine that would significantly increase India's naval reach.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3763970.stm



"Commander Vinay Garg, told the BBC talks were continuing between the two countries but no agreement was completed"

"He said more details could be expected by Monday" :?

 

[srirangan]

Lol .. nice try at the cover up

 

[corsair7772]

Its an Akula 2, one hell of a submarine. The indians get that and pakistan would be forced to start negotiations for a Type 93 SSN from China. Its that good gentleman. And great assett for reference when building an ATV. :smokingc:

 

[turin]

Its an Akula 2, one hell of a submarine. The indians get that and pakistan would be forced to start negotiations for a Type 93 SSN from China. Its that good gentleman. And great assett for reference when building an ATV.

Well I will believe in an indian (leased) Akula II, when its sailing into an indian harbor, no minute earlier.
As for the 093...Pakistan should better have some other ideas. First thing is that the 093 is not even operational within the PLAN, secondly its IMO nowhere near reality to assume that China would sell that sub to anyone. And thirdly...even an 093, from all I read about it and the Akula II, is nowhere near the russian sub in terms of technology. The best thing I know is that its comparable to Victor III-level tech (which is still an improvement for what the chinese have right now).

 

[adsH]

turin you would be surprised at the level of cooperation pakistanis and chinese have, for example when the pakistanis acquired the tech for the French augusta most of the chinese subs were being modified similar to the certain attributes the french subs contained. i'll try to get a source on this. Pakistan has access to French electronicand technology all it needs is access to SSN tech which France cannot offer, it can offer Pakistan all the related tech ie the electrics and the onboard computing systems sensors etc. so i wouldn't be shocked if this sort of arrangement might not materialize.

 

[india2020]

Its an Akula 2, one hell of a submarine. The indians get that and pakistan would be forced to start negotiations for a Type 93 SSN from China. Its that good gentleman. And great assett for reference when building an ATV. :smokingc:

Pakistan IMO doesnt need a nuclear submarine anyway.India is the only problem for pakistan and diesel subs are more than enough to reach almost any part of it.India has other plans much bigger and a lot more problems than pakistan.It is natural we need a nuclear sub.

 

[mysterious]

I dont think the Pakistan Navy would mind atleast a pair of nuclear subs by around 2010 or 2015. Pakistan's policy is minimum deterrance which means they'll try to get the same tech as their rivals but only limit the 'number' of items related to that tech to keep their costs minimum and to keep their rival(s) at bay. :smokingc:

 

[corsair7772]

Its an Akula 2, one hell of a submarine. The indians get that and pakistan would be forced to start negotiations for a Type 93 SSN from China. Its that good gentleman. And great assett for reference when building an ATV.

Well I will believe in an indian (leased) Akula II, when its sailing into an indian harbor, no minute earlier.
As for the 093...Pakistan should better have some other ideas. First thing is that the 093 is not even operational within the PLAN, secondly its IMO nowhere near reality to assume that China would sell that sub to anyone. And thirdly...even an 093, from all I read about it and the Akula II, is nowhere near the russian sub in terms of technology. The best thing I know is that its comparable to Victor III-level tech (which is still an improvement for what the chinese have right now).

Thats some very crude assessment. Were not buying a boomer here man were buying a fast attack. An SSN isnt a MIG which you can go off comparing to an F-16. If ur in the submarine community youll understand that this kind of stuff is better left to the aviation magazine.
In case u didnt know pakistan relies on submarines for it offenseive operations and if it cant master this arm its basically helpless. A nuclear sub is the essence of a martime power. According to mahan were a littoral state so were not a martime power but for the purpose of sea denial were going to have 2 need a strong fleet tailored to deny control of the sea and submarines are the essense of such a mission. Thus it would be foolish if pakistan doesnt take the best boats available here. And nuclear submarine is a leading element of such a force. Pakistan would need about 4 by 2020 if it wants credibilty in submarines. A type 93 by 2015 is a start, improved versions by 2020 are the bottom line.
PS in a subcontinent scenario an SSN comparable to V-3 is pretty good. An Akula 2 has its plus points (its basically the same as a Los Angles Class) but a V-3 is perfectly capable of handling it with the right handling and fittings. And i think the Type 93 is more of an SSGN because of its limited attack capability.
Ill explain the chinese diplomacy part some other time but for now remmember the law of using buffer states against ur enemies. A cheap option.

 

[gf0012-aust]

As for the 093...Pakistan should better have some other ideas. First thing is that the 093 is not even operational within the PLAN, secondly its IMO nowhere near reality to assume that China would sell that sub to anyone. And thirdly...even an 093, from all I read about it and the Akula II, is nowhere near the russian sub in terms of technology. The best thing I know is that its comparable to Victor III-level tech (which is still an improvement for what the chinese have right now).

Well, after having spent 5 days at a sub warfare conference, I'd have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with you on the issue of Chinese subs and their quality.

They are nowhere near the acoustic quality of the 3rd series of USN boomers and SSK's. In addition to that, I spent 3 days listening to Mo Xiping and Du Wenping of the Institute of Acoustics Chinese Academy of Sciences giving discussion papers on acoustic properties and detection techniques on various vessel types, from my perspective, they are 15 years behind the US, France, Germany and probably 3 other countries.

I can tell you unequivocably, that they are not silent platforms - irrespective of what you might see stated by some.

The issue of India and the Akula 2 is a different matter. That will fundamentally depend on how they manage the project and whether it is a turnkey russian solution. The Akula 2 is completely outclassed by at least 4 other platforms that I know of - but it depends on what they want to do with them.

 

[Revival_786]

Russia denies submarine deal with India

By Jawed Naqvi

Moscow, Oct 22: Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on Friday denied reports of a nuclear submarine deal with India, Press Trust of India said from Moscow. "I can assure you that the information about the submarine is not true," Mr Ivanov was quoted as saying by the ITAR-TASS news agency which on Thursday reported the deal.

Mr Ivanov, the new co-chairman of the Indo-Russian Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation, said that during his New Delhi visit in January, no negotiations were held on submarines.

"We really had discussed very serious contracts in military-technical co-operation, in particular, a major contract for the supply of 'Admiral Gorshkov' aircraft carrier was signed. But there were no talks about submarines or their leasing," he said.

ITAR-TASS and private Interfax news agencies, quoting 'defence industry sources', on Thursday reported the signing of the submarine deal earlier this year with India. According to the Thursday report Russia was to lease Akula-II class multi-role nuclear submarine 'Nerpa', currently under construction at a shipyard in Komsomolsk-on-Amur in the Far East.


http://www.dawn.com/2004/10/23/top11.htm

 

[turin]

Thats some very crude assessment. Were not buying a boomer here man were buying a fast attack. An SSN isnt a MIG which you can go off comparing to an F-16. If ur in the submarine community youll understand that this kind of stuff is better left to the aviation magazine.

Well you may correct me but you started comparing SSN by saying:

The indians get that and pakistan would be forced to start negotiations for a Type 93 SSN from China. Its that good gentleman.

I guess this is pretty much a comparison, isnt it? Moreover the intend of my post was to correct you in your view of the 093 SSN being an adequate counterpart for a Akula II. It is certainly not.
Also:

If ur in the submarine community youll understand that this kind of stuff is better left to the aviation magazine.

well, I am not with the sub community and I guess you are not, too?! Otherwise I couldnt explain your evaluation of the 093 SSN. Simply said, SSN vs. SSN scenarious are far from being not realistic, so the 093 vs. Akula II argument is valid since both vessels may encounter each other and then it comes to hunter/killer capabilities. Or do you think they will turn away from each other saying: "Hey, that isnt a boomer...not worth our time."?!

In case u didnt know pakistan relies on submarines for it offenseive operations and if it cant master this arm its basically helpless.

Did I say anything in that direction?

In case u didnt know pakistan relies on submarines for it offenseive operations and if it cant master this arm its basically helpless. A nuclear sub is the essence of a martime power. According to mahan were a littoral state so were not a martime power but for the purpose of sea denial were going to have 2 need a strong fleet tailored to deny control of the sea and submarines are the essense of such a mission. Thus it would be foolish if pakistan doesnt take the best boats available here.

Yeah well. I cant see your point. I didnt say anything against Pakistan aquiring SSN-capability. I just stated that your claim of the 093 being an adequate counterpart is not valid. Also I said that the procurement of 093 SSN by the pakistani navy within the time the Indians get their hands on a useful vessel is unlikely, based on the initial news that they get the Akula II in the next time, of course...for the reasons I stated above.

And nuclear submarine is a leading element of such a force. Pakistan would need about 4 by 2020 if it wants credibilty in submarines.

Whats the worth of credibility if this is based on obsolete subs?

And i think the Type 93 is more of an SSGN because of its limited attack capability.

The 093 is designed and intended to be an SSN. If its attack capability is limited this makes it an insufficient SSN, but not automatically an SSGN. I recommend to compare capabilities of a SSGN like Oscar/II to these of the 093 and you see what I mean.
Also I'd like to hear what you understand under "limited attack cap". If its the high acoustic signature, then this certainly wouldnt help the vessel in operations as SSGN.

 

[P.A.F]

who cares. the chinese aren't building the gwader port for nothing you know. :smokingc: