India Opposes Sale Of F-16s By US To Pak

[adsH]

"to change the harness you physically need to pull the entire plane apart. you cannot just add new hardware modules to an older harness. there are peripheral issues of data buss connections, thermal issues due to increased data traffic, EMF changes, RF changes, even line availability. "

EMF soultions

When an alternating current flows through a primary winding, a magnetic field is established around the winding. As the lines of flux expand outward, relative motion is present, and a counter emf is induced in the winding. Flux leaves the primary at the north pole and enters the primary at the south pole. The counter emf induced in the primary has a polarity that opposes the applied voltage, thus opposing the flow of current in the primary. It is the counter emf that limits exciting current to a very low value.

i think its a similar concept to a Networked Building where you have UTP Cabling and you have noise problem its addressed by twisting the pairs (you get cross noise cancellation). you can have Shielded pairs but there size and mass limits flexibility and space is always an issue. But for a digital communication (where you only have two states) UTP ie non shielded twisted pair is cost effective and the most practical.

Point being it can be achieved if we have a qualified Electronic Engineer on the project!!

about the Harness are we talking about the Ejection seat system. the new improvements over PCU-15 torso harness!! or the F-16 WIRING HARNESS CNT F42620-97-M-0200 AMT TO Interconnect Wiring



ll F-16s delivered since November 1981 have built-in structural and wiring provisions and systems architecture that permit expansion of the multirole flexibility to perform precision strike, night attack and beyond-visual-range interception missions. This improvement program led to the F-16C and F-16D aircraft, which are the single- and two-place counterparts to the F-16A/B, and incorporate the latest cockpit control and display technology. All active units and many Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve units have converted to the F-16C/D.
http://www.voodoo.cz/falcon/info.html

about the dataBus issues i am sure the AC has enough flexibility to accommodate the necessary wiring they have the Comprehensive MLU program on offer. LM states the cockpit During an MLU receives a hundred additional wires just in the cockpit.

one thing i have to ask you GF the added F-16 E/F Dorsal Spine, can that be incorporated onto the F-16 A/B.

 

[gf0012-aust]

"to change the harness you physically need to pull the entire plane apart. you cannot just add new hardware modules to an older harness. there are peripheral issues of data buss connections, thermal issues due to increased data traffic, EMF changes, RF changes, even line availability. "

EMF soultions

When an alternating current flows through a primary winding, a magnetic field is established around the winding. As the lines of flux expand outward, relative motion is present, and a counter emf is induced in the winding. Flux leaves the primary at the north pole and enters the primary at the south pole. The counter emf induced in the primary has a polarity that opposes the applied voltage, thus opposing the flow of current in the primary. It is the counter emf that limits exciting current to a very low value.

i think its a similar concept to a Networked Building where you have UTP Cabling and you have noise problem its addressed by twisting the pairs (you get cross noise cancellation). you can have Shielded pairs but there size and mass limits flexibility and space is always an issue. But for a digital communication (where you only have two states) UTP ie non shielded twisted pair is cost effective and the most practical.

Point being it can be achieved if we have a qualified Electronic Engineer on the project!!

adsH, yes it can be achieved, but the last thing you want to do on a plane is provide an interconnect EMF solution. It makes subtle changes to the COG of the platform and thus can effect handling characteristics through various flight envelopes. I'm not suggesting that an EMF top and tailing repellant will add huge weight, but it needs to be factored in. By replacing the harness it doesn't matter as much about additional weight as it is distributed.

about the Harness are we talking about the Ejection seat system. the new improvements over PCU-15 torso harness!! or the F-16 WIRING HARNESS CNT F42620-97-M-0200 AMT TO Interconnect Wiring

No, I was actually talking about a complete platform harness. Any plane of decent age should really have a re-harness considered - it's a safety issue. New generation cables and connectors are more fire proof, less toxic and usually considerably lighter.

about the dataBus issues i am sure the AC has enough flexibility to accommodate the necessary wiring they have the Comprehensive MLU program on offer. LM states the cockpit During an MLU receives a hundred additional wires just in the cockpit.

again, that depends on what the MLU specifics are. I'd suggest that a cockpit harness change is not providing full benefit.

one thing i have to ask you GF the added F-16 E/F Dorsal Spine, can that be incorporated onto the F-16 A/B.

I'm not sure whether the echo/foxtrot spines could be added, but I would imagine that it would be better anyway to design one around the specific platform. The platforms skeleton would be subtley different at some mounting points, so I don't think its just a matter of retro fitting latter model parts. Again - adding a weasel dorsal pack would mean changing the body harness if you were to do it properly.
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[Sq No.15]

Don't fret if Pak gets F-16s

India need not lose sleep even if Pakistan manages to acquire more F-16 fighters from the US. After plastering American combat pilots in an exercise earlier this year, IAF top guns now have another reason to be gung ho: their top-notch mean machines have proved more than a match for F-16s, the much-vaunted 'fighting falcons'.

Russian-origin Sukhoi-30MKI jets are apparently outgunning American F-16s on "several aspects" at the ongoing Indo-Singapore air combat exercise in Gwalior.

This is the first-ever face-off between these two sophisticated war machines originating from the two former Cold War adversaries.

"Our Sukhois are doing very well against the F-16Cs (of Singapore Air Force) in terms of manoeuvrability, sophistication of avionics and weapon systems. Similarly, our MiG-29s and Mirage-2000s are also matching up to the F-16s," say IAF sources.

IAF is pitting even its MiG-21s, which constitute over 45% of India's combat fleet, against F-16s during the 'Sindex-Ankush' exercise in Gwalior.

"Ever since the Pakistanis acquired F-16s from the US in the mid-1980s, we wanted to size them up. So, we are matching almost all our planes with F-16s of the Singapore Air Force, which are more advanced than the F-16s of Pakistan," said sources.

The IAF has also tasked its elite combat school to develop manoeuvres for MiG-21s to elude the radar cones of F-16s.

IAF spokesperson Squadron Leader Mahesh Upasani only said, "Results of the exercise will be assessed only after the debrief. It's premature to comment at this stage."

Instead of F-16s, the US had fielded the F-15C Eagles during the Cope India-04 exercise in February. So, the decks were promptly cleared when Singapore came knocking for training facilities with its F-16s.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-896301,curpg-2.cms

 

[XEROX]

against Singapore it wasnt the MKI but the MK-1 :?:

 

[adsH]

guys a platform is not what determines who is superior. the surrounding support and the overall package that are employed including Pilots and war doctrines.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Don't fret if Pak gets F-16s

India need not lose sleep even if Pakistan manages to acquire more F-16 fighters from the US. After plastering American combat pilots in an exercise earlier this year, IAF top guns now have another reason to be gung ho: their top-notch mean machines have proved more than a match for F-16s, the much-vaunted 'fighting falcons'.

The Indian Times has obviously missed the recently released info on Cope India which detailed the ROE's for Cope India.

I suggest that you read them before getting excited at an exercise which was restricted in a number of areas:

eg

USAF ALI missiles set to 1/3rd of typical intercept/acquisition range
Ratio of 3:1 in IAF favour. ie 12 IAF aircraft against 4 USAF in all meeting engagements.

and, most importantly, those ROE's were at the IAF request.
you might also want to note that no Indian pilots have made any comment about the exercise about their capability - and for very good reason. The press accounts doen't reflect actual realtime scenarios on how the USAF would fight unfettered.

/excerpt on

Two factors have been cited as major reasons why the 3rd Wing took a drubbing. None of the participating American aircraft had the latest long-range AESA radars, although some of the F-15Cs of the Wing had this equipment. A decision had been made beforehand not to send the AESA equipped planes to India due to the additional maintenance package required to support them. A total of six F-15Cs were sent to India, each equipped with a fighter data link, short-range AIM-9X heat-seeking air-to-air missiles, and the U.S.'s helmet-mounted cueing system.

Secondly, at India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the full range of capabilities of simulated long-range radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles. U.S. fighters could not use the active on-board radar capability of the AMRAAM, and the missile was limited to around 32 kilometers range and required the use of the F-15C's onboard radar to target Indian aircraft. In standard use, AMRAAM has a range of over 100 kilometers and is a fire-and-forget missile that doesn't require additional guidance from the F-15. Practiced tactics by the F-15 crews mix two AESA-equipped F-15Cs with two stock aircraft. The AESA aircraft take long-range missile shots to thin out and disrupt the formation of a numerically superior force before the two sides close up for closer fighting.

The F-15s flew in groups of 4 against packages of 12 Indian Air Force aircraft consisting of a mix of Mirage 2000, Su-30, Mig-21, and Mig-27 aircraft. The Mirage and Su-30 aircraft were used in the air-to-air role, while the Mig-27 was used as the strike aircraft with the Mig-21 providing escort to the Mig-27s. The Indians also had a simulated AWACS platform and the use of simulated active radar missiles such as the AA-12 and the French Mica, unlike the F-15Cs. This gave the Indian Air Force a fire-and-forget air-to-air missile capability that the U.S. fighters didn't have, a heavily unrealistic assumption in actual hostilities.

However, the U.S. pilots admitted that they did have problems with the simulated active missile threat and don't normally train against launch-and-leave threats. They also admit they underestimated the training and tactics of the Indian pilots. Indian air force planners never repeated failed tactics and were able to change tactics as opportunities became available, mixing things up and never providing the same tactical "look." Some of the Indian aircraft radars had different characteristics than U.S. pilots had seen on stock versions of the aircraft, including some of the Mirage 2000s.

/excerpt off

 

[mysterious]

And Gary, you might also want to point out that the Singaporean F-16s that the IAF is exercising with, are F-16'C's!!! Ofcourse those falcons are superior to PAF's F-16 A/Bs but if PAF gets the MLU and/or more falcons from Block 50 (adding to that the abilities of the PAF pilots and experience with the platform), we could be talking about a whole new ball game. :smokingc:

 

[Aussie Digger]

You must also take into account that Countries never reveal there full capabilities when exercising with international air arms. As gf pointed out early, Australian RAAF Hornets "smashed" the French Mirage 2K's when they were "downunder" early this year, however the MK2 is an excellent combat aircraft and a "real" engagement would be much closer than this exercise was.

If the Singaporean's are being used to "size up" the suspected capabilities of PAF's F-16's, then the Singaporean's will by the ROE for the exercise be limited to what it is believed PAF's F-16's would be capable of, ie: within visual range missile shots only, certain radar range and performance limitations etc.

Singaporean F-16's are however far more capable than this, being predominantly of Block 52 configuration and featuring a variety of indigenous and Israeli manufactured enhancements. The Dash-3 Helmet mounted sighting system and Python IV air to air missile system are 2 such advanced systems used by Singapore. I bet those capabilities aren't used to their maximum though. I think many Indian fighters would be severly embarrased if they did...