Implications for ADF if U.K dump JSF?

[chrisrobsoar]

I seriously doubt Britan is going to dump the JSF and go for the Rafale, i just dont see that happening. The idea was floated to pressure the US into believing that the RAF have other options.

On an unrelated subject......i would assume the Yanks are ticked off with the Brits for selling the Typhoons to the Saudis. Hence the exclusion of the Rolls Royce engine as punishment.

Re: Dumping. See my previous post.

Switch to Rafale M?; well no. (The cost to the UK aerospace industry would be too great to tolerate).

If we do not proceed with the JSF, the Typhoon N will be developed at whatever cost.

The JSF second engine is not really about RR, but is more concerned with having a second engine builder in the US (GE) and local US politics.

 

[Glider]

Forgive the intrusion but this is my first posting onto this forum. For what its worth I believe that the UK does have other options, at least for the RAF.

The UK other option is to replace the JSF with the Grippen. I think we have a 40% share in the aircraft anyway so costwise that would be a good option. Its a very capable plane from a manufacturer who has an excellent track record. As an RAF replacement for the JSF it has a lot going for it. The Grippen has some overseas sales to its credit, and you can be sure that the RAF would get a good deal should they go that way.

The problem is the Fleet Air Arm, at first glance the Rafale is almost the only option, note almost. Its available, will not need, much if any development and the carriers are designed for it. However the French do not have a terrific reputation for swapping technology and we may well have a similar problem with the JSF.

So we are left with having to develop a naval version of another plane.
The cost of developing a Naval Typhoon and the delay it would cause is such that I believe that its a non starter. Would anyone bet on less than 7 years?

The cost of developing a Naval Grippen is probably less than the Typhoon. Its designed for rough surfaces and it probably will not need as much beefing up as a Typhoon. Its versatile and can carry out the air to air and attack missions, plus we will not have to rely on other countries to assist with the development. The last point is often overlooked. The overheads of dealing with other countries are significant particually if you need their input into designing and building new parts.

I would bite the bullet, go for the Grippen and take control of our own destiny.

Remember that if other countries see the UK, the USA's closest friend walk away from the JSF after spending 2 billion on it because we do not trust the USA to give us the support we need. They are likely to say if the UK doesnt trust the USA, why should we?

 

[chrisrobsoar]

Glider

Forgive the intrusion but this is my first posting onto this forum. For what its worth I believe that the UK does have other options, at least for the RAF.

Welcome. (BTW: Do you fly gliders?).

As this is a bit off topic I will be brief.

The UK other option [for the RAF] is to replace the JSF with the Grippen.

The RAF wanted JSF to replace the Harrier and Jaguar aircraft. The close support task could be carried out by A2G Typhoons rather than by another aircraft type.

The problem is the Fleet Air Arm, .

True.

at first glance the Rafale is almost the only option, note almost. Its available, will not need, much if any development and the carriers are designed for it.

IMHO: The potential damage to the UK aerospace industry would preclude the procurement of Rafale.

So we are left with having to develop a naval version of another plane.
The cost of developing a Naval Typhoon and the delay it would cause is such that I believe that its a non starter. Would anyone bet on less than 7 years? .

The CVF will not be available until 2014. 7 years should be enough to develop the Typhoon N aircraft.

The CEO of BAE Systems has already stated that in his opinion Plan “B” is a Typhoon N.

Remember that if other countries see the UK, the USA's closest friend walk away from the JSF after spending 2 billion on it because we do not trust the USA to give us the support we need. They are likely to say if the UK doesnt trust the USA, why should we?

True, the US my loose other JSF customers (e.g. ADF). The UK government would also be under public pressure to withhold support for the US in other areas (i.e. Iraq). The US would become more isolated.

 

[Glider]

Your points are valid and I agree that the Typhoon A2G would be the best option for the RAF but I suspect cost would get in the way. A high end/Low end approach was what I had in mind similar to the F15/F16. In that case a cheaper low risk option with minimal funds leaving the country would be the Grippen.

BTW I flew Gliders for many years but am now grounded for health reasons. Fortunately that is getting better and my wife is getting more worried each month.

 

[J.K Nilsson]

There was some talk around a navalised Gripen for Brazil. With the BAe in the company already i don´t think that the EF will be the first choice to navalise.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson

 

[gf0012-aust]

There was some talk around a navalised Gripen for Brazil. With the BAe in the company already i don´t think that the EF will be the first choice to navalise.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson

Hi J.K. welcome to the forums.

re a navalised Gripen. Wouldn;t you consider that to be a long way off?

Unless the initial design parameters allowed for future shipboard work, then the design will be compromised. Its very difficult - if not impossible to convert a non navalised platform into a CATOBAR capable aircraft. eg The structural loads at launch and trap are enormous.

The entire frame of the aircraft needs to be ruggedised and then extra attention paid to the undercarriage and tailhook area. Those alone add extra weight to the aircraft - which means that the performance will also be adjusted.

Are you aware of any naval mules in development?

 

[J.K Nilsson]

There are some hearsay that Saab is planing a Gripen with increased MTOW, more fuel, moved main undercarrige, more powerful engine. Let´s wait some months and there should be more to talk about.

Regards,

J.K Nilsson