If i were the general to reunion taiwan

[ever4244]

there is lots of tread talking about maybe-war in taiwan , but all seems to be unrealisitic due to lack of knowlege of china and taiwan, i am a student in beijing , i believe i know better on this matter.

first i can tell you we ll never ever use nuke in taiwan. and even if the situation has gone too bad,it more likely ended up threating to nuke US fleet .that 99% will end the war, 1% will brought real disaster . Because taiwanese are also chinese , we want to reunion not ruin .will US use nuke in the civil war if they had?

back to point , my first move will announce the civil exigency in UN and use diplomatic effort to warn any country who would interfere is violating the sovereignty of china which will be seen as a declaration of war. meanwhile secret negotiation with US and Japen will underway for US would not likely to risk danger to evoke a globle war and none US president vow to protect taiwan if it announce independent first.

After that i ll launch the 800 ballistic missile to destroy airport ,military base ,harbour ,headquater ,radar station ,power plant ,in a sudden attack ,meanwhile the chinese-seal already sneak to taiwan will guide the airforce to completely destroy the remaining facility and gathering taiwan troops ,after the first wave 70% of taiwan airplane was destroyed in base and other s hide in bunker , 200 su-27sk will patroll seek to destroy any already taken off fighter . while more j-10 will assistantant su-30mkk to sink taiwan fleet----they are vulnerable with out air cover. and cruise missle will also fired to give accurate attack to bunker and radar station . after all that, the main landforce will be land or airdroped , helped by chinese-seal , and air assistant ,they will seize all important facility and key point in taiwan ,the elite paratrooper are ordered to capture leaders of taiwan . plus the once the TV station was captured , we ll announce the reunion of taiwan, and extinguish the morale of insurgence .and because taiwan has long belong to china -----which is also admited by many leader in taiwan troops----many of them can find their great grandfather in mainland , so there won t be too fierce resistance if the situation is seal.

and if US interfere , and all other means are in vain , we ll try to slow US by a
internet and communication attack and dump $------china has worlds largest
foreign exchange storation and us national debt, which may cause the chaos
of US and brought them back to table.
if the bloodshed is doomed , then i ll order the full control of civil fuel and facility .froze all us-investment and facility in china ,defend US fleet with landbased airforce , and subwater force. i ll order full reproduction of all kinds of combat plane necessery and use swarm of low quality plane combined with su-30 j 11 j10 , so launch saturation attack on US carrier --------i am sure none carrier fleet can stand 2000k jh7+ 300 j10+ 100s-30 +200-j11. and we are develping a long range cruise missile can attack ship. same time , the subwater force will seize the opportunity when fleet are busy dealing with air-assult . we ll warn korea and other us ally don t permit US attack on their airbase or we ll evoke north korea to assault or bombard them with cruise missile , -------i don t think those country will join US-----if the tiger and lion are fighting dare deer join in the fight?, for even if china lose , they won t be comfortable when china took revenge on them .besids , there is no international law approve the interference with other country s civil conflict, and most country in the world has recognize taiwan is part of china, so how can they explain to their people if they join the US and being revenged by china-------that s not accord to their own interest .

So largely the was is a limited one with all kinds of trick and threat , sometime the politic effort is much more crucial than real fight .and persionaly i hope it can come to a peaceful reunion

 

[aaaditya]

i realy doubt if usa and japan would negotiate with china,that is the reason why china is building up its navy(to counter usa,becuase they do not expect usa to stop interfering),once usa and japan get involved (iam sure south korea and north korea will also be involved at some stage,because usa will use it as an execuse to attack north korea saying that they are chinese allies,and once north korea joins the war ,south korea will definitely feel threatened and will be forced to be involved).

your plan is flawed since it does not take into consideration the eventuality of usa joining the war .

usa in reality is not concerned about taiwanese independence ,they are more concerned about china ,whom they consider as their rival,usa also follows an anti-communist policy).

the war in iraq is a proof that usa does not bother about losses.also usa air force ,army and navy are as of now definitely superior to china and i dont see them losing their edge to china anytime in the near future.

 

[ever4244]

US dose care cost

If US so eager to hammer all the communist why all the president must come to china once and sing highly for the so called cooperate-ship----if not friendship, If US don t count cost , why they don t assult DPRK and solve the nuclear crisis once and for all,.and Iran , russia, i believe uncle sam want to smush them in his dreams .but none of them get really pinched . We have many ways to persude america to negotiate, and i don t think americans want a globle war.------that a insufficent of democracy. If ever taiwan want to announce the independence , US will be the first to press them back. that happens a lot of time when US president warn taiwan leader not to brought up trouble . as for other country , you fall to mention even some minor war, many america ally would not permit US airforce use their base to attack ,
needless to say china is one of the most influencing country in the world .
US can only rely on its own carrier .
by the way , in chinese view,military prowess is not for fight but for negotiatation , if we havenot a strong navy , then US will surely interfere ,but if we can convince them our force will hurt them a lot, them will weigh the cost . just like the sting of bee, it is not for attack (a bee can only use it once), but for threat.

 

[Waylander]

Why do you think you would be able to surprise the forces of Taiwan?
If they officially declare independence one would think that they are also prepared for an imminent answer of Beijing and their army, navy and air force is at high alert.
And even the Sovjets were not very sure about their ability to fullfill a successfull saturation attack onto an US carrier task force during the '80s and China is not near to the sea strike capabilities of the former SU.
And do you think that the Chinese air forces uses nearly the whole air force to strike at once against a carrier task force? Leaving the rest of their country defenseless against attacks of US Fighter Wings stationed in Korea and Japan and US Bomber Wings somewhere else. Not to talk of the remaining Taiwanese Air Force which would be happy to see that the fighter screen over the street of Formoso is gone.

As to the question of how bloody this war against Taiwan would be.
There are enough examples in history which show that civil/brother wars tend to be one of the bloodiest wars. There have also been civil wars in the chineses past where dozens of millions died.

 

[ever4244]

reply

Why do you think you would be able to surprise the forces of Taiwan?
If they officially declare independence one would think that they are also prepared for an imminent answer of Beijing and their army, navy and air force is at high alert.
And even the Sovjets were not very sure about their ability to fullfill a successfull saturation attack onto an US carrier task force during the '80s and China is not near to the sea strike capabilities of the former SU.
And do you think that the Chinese air forces uses nearly the whole air force to strike at once against a carrier task force? Leaving the rest of their country defenseless against attacks of US Fighter Wings stationed in Korea and Japan and US Bomber Wings somewhere else. Not to talk of the remaining Taiwanese Air Force which would be happy to see that the fighter screen over the street of Formoso is gone.

As to the question of how bloody this war against Taiwan would be.
There are enough examples in history which show that civil/brother wars tend to be one of the bloodiest wars. There have also been civil wars in the chineses past where dozens of millions died.

Can you take off the plane in 5 minute? that the time ballistic missile fly, taiwan is narrow and parallel to mainland , the channel is only 90km wide.even our long ranged rocket can reach the airport, so even if they are alert, can they take off all the plane in case the attack? even if they can,they are within range of s-300pmu on our side , so they have no geography advantage at all.
plus you just don t know how many airplane we have, especial j 7 j 8, there is still enough to defend the land. and i don t think our neighour will assist US ,US herself may not interfere either for it s taiwan take the agressive move by announce independence------i fall to figure out why american willing to die for taiwan-------that s not WW2, and there is no right and wrong . it just not worthy to dieing for .

as to the carrier , within 4 we are sure we can defeat them----i believe soviet is also sure of that, if US summon all the carrier , i can only prey to god that will not ended up to a nuclear war. ----but can US neglect all other interests and surport taiwan like that? taiwan is not pearl harbour , Its a part of china, not US, why would they fight such a bloody war with us?

 

[icelord]

Heres the misconception, countries listen to US advice, and they do thier own thing if its best for them. If taiwan declared independance, why would China need to invade, get over it, look, China and Taiwan need to realise, they won't reunite, taiwan has prospered on its own, and china is only just playing catch up. China needs to move its assest elsewhere.
Of course the US would get involved, you want an example of america coming to assist a small nation against a bigger threat, Korea, Vietnam. Nam ended badly, but US still went to their aide. Korea is well, still going strong.

and if US interfere , and all other means are in vain , we ll try to slow US by a
internet and communication attack and dump $------china has worlds largest
foreign exchange storation and us national debt, which may cause the chaos
of US and brought them back to table.

I'm no economist, but i think you underestimate americas resolve, if the chinese did attempt to wipe economy, it would only ensure more determination to not allow themselves to be in that situation again, and they'd rectify it.
As for intenet and communication attack, what you gunna do, hack Youtube?
Prank call people every 5mins?

This is not a personal attack, but thank christ your not a leader, and with such an attitude and strategy towards taiwan, i'd doubt you'd get far. Generals need to evaluate all options, more so then any politician can, and an attack on Taiwan would be very different to how you presented a scenario,

We have many ways to persude america to negotiate, and i don t think americans want a globle war.------that a insufficent of democracy.

Thats just plain ignorance, you can't persuade sh*t when it comes to negotiations, this is not some domestic dispute, this is international and foreign affairs, too many countries have investments in china and US to allow a dispute, neither country would really be able to get a upper in negotiations, as the Euro Union would get involved, along with Russia and others.

What your proposing is proposterous, we've already discussed in another thread chinas ability to fight if war is declared, the entire pacific Sub fleet would bring China to its knees when it comes to supplies, with most coming by sea, and Russia would close its borders to anything getting through, that includes its Military Weapons, such as ships, planes and tanks.

hen i ll order the full control of civil fuel and facility .froze all us-investment and facility in china ,defend US fleet with landbased airforce , and subwater force. i ll order full reproduction of all kinds of combat plane necessery and use swarm of low quality plane combined with su-30 j 11 j10 , so launch saturation attack on US carrier --------i am sure none carrier fleet can stand 2000k jh7+ 300 j10+ 100s-30 +200-j11. and we are develping a long range cruise missile can attack ship. same time , the subwater force will seize the opportunity when fleet are busy dealing with air-assult

I rekon they could take on 2000 aircraft and come out with a couple of scratches. seeing a fleet has carrier, with say scramble of 8 at first, idk, Big E would be better with this, but launching of what, 20+ in extreme? for close defence or too meet and wipe out the attacking fighters, depending on formation, most likely would be mix of Anti-ship missiles on most, with several fighters for Air to air, but this is nuts anyway, i doubt china has 2000 aircraft able to launch and engage, in fact, i got no idea why i'm arguing this crazy scenario.
then theirs the AWDs, which can engage multiple targets at extreme ranges, you could see the loss of 70% of your strike force before they move into any sort of attack range.

why they don t assult DPRK and solve the nuclear crisis once and for all,

Because thats just stupid, plain and simple

 

[Waylander]

They just operated 6 carriers together with additional air force units during a maneuver in the pacific.
And you want to defend your country with J-7 and J-8?

And how do you know how many of your missiles make it through the air defense screen of Taiwan?
And how many of your missiles are able to directly hit airfields with high precision not to talk of hitting AND penetrating the small shelters?
Combat engineers are also very fast at repairing runways and the Taiwanese Air Force also trains for using highways as secondary runways.
This works very good we also have many of those secondary airfields on our highway network.
Not to talk of your vulnerable and too small amphibious capabilities.

Too many ifs to really say who is able to win this conflict.

 

[icelord]

Can you take off the plane in 5 minute? that the time ballistic missile fly, taiwan is narrow and parallel to mainland , the channel is only 90km wide.even our long ranged rocket can reach the airport, so even if they are alert, can they take off all the plane in case the attack? even if they can,they are within range of s-300pmu on our side , so they have no geography advantage at all.
plus you just don t know how many airplane we have, especial j 7 j 8, there is still enough to defend the land. and i don t think our neighour will assist US ,US herself may not interfere either for it s taiwan take the agressive move by announce independence------i fall to figure out why american willing to die for taiwan-------that s not WW2, and there is no right and wrong . it just not worthy to dieing for .

as to the carrier , within 4 we are sure we can defeat them----i believe soviet is also sure of that, if US summon all the carrier , i can only prey to god that will not ended up to a nuclear war. ----but can US neglect all other interests and surport taiwan like that? taiwan is not pearl harbour , Its a part of china, not US, why would they fight such a bloody war with us?

Patriot systems would engage anything inbound, AWDs in port leave their comps going incase of such scenarios, and any attack would be known in advance because US would have large number of intel assets in China, and thats with out SIGINT.

You may fail to understand why US would assits taiwan, but the point is you don't propose to a country to support it in case of invasion or attack, and then when the time comes, go AWOL and hope for the best.
You overestimate the chinese navy, they have nothing on USN. You could have 200 subs to americas 74, with say 30 in pacific, and USN would still nail the lot. But you don't you got 69 at present count, and most were built long before the USN considered building its oldest subs in current service.

And most of the USN mothball fleet would be able to match the PLAN. The sheer numbers don't even match, and china hasn't even looked at matching the USN for numbers, because they are way too far behind.

 

[Grand Danois]

If US so eager to hammer all the communist why all the president must come to china once and sing highly for the so called cooperate-ship----if not friendship,

China and DPRK are not communist states. They're nationalistic dictatorships with a streak of fascism.

You think the US wouldn't get along with those?

 

[ever4244]

Heres the misconception, countries listen to US advice, and they do thier own thing if its best for them. If taiwan declared independance, why would China need to invade, get over it, look, China and Taiwan need to realise, they won't reunite, taiwan has prospered on its own, and china is only just playing catch up. China needs to move its assest elsewhere.

Can Britian get over it if north Ireland independent? Can US get over it if south state getover it? Its not a matter of communism or capitalism, It s not a matter of rich or poor. For centuries china divide and reunion , and none gets independent(minority excluded), for that is the highest moral to reunion the nation in chinese.-------the feeling you can never taste for lacking of such long history and culture.

back to point, it is known that even US can t be sure to intercept missile 100%, and patriot3 is much expensive than ballistic missle, and the reaction time is only 1/3 compare to iraq war.how can you defend hundreds of such missle with 3 suit of patriot? let along the long ranged rocket, just think what happen in Israel. and our rocket is much more accurate with guidence head. the ballistic missle 's accuracy is within 50m, and our cruise missle can reach 10m, the only problem is our satelite is few and vulnerable .

To take off and land on modern fighter in highway is quite hard, and thatkind of highway will surely bombard by the less expensive rocket.let along our pilot already in advantage situation .

It s still unknown how much US will interfere.We can never stand a chance if we start a unlimited war with US, but you need to give me a reson why US willing s to die in thousands to interfere the matter. I know the 6 carrier gather to rehearsal , but thats only a power show, maybe a kind of warning--------but denied by US . Soviet has invade many countries , but US never directly support for fearing a world war, As to korea war, US has never expect china will join, if her know , very likely she will not cross the 3-8 line.

plus:I post the thread is not because i like war, it s just a reply to the tactic game someone has post. but none should doult chinese s determination to reunion taiwan . You can see every time every leader visit china , we ll insist them to make a announcement about taiwan . that very important to us , but not so important to US comparing to have war with china.

 

[Grand Danois]

It s still unknown how much US will interfere.

It is known. They will. Rest assured.

 

[Waylander]

Would you start a war where your plan is build around the gamble if the US interferes or not?

 

[ever4244]

I require explanation

China and DPRK are not communist states. They're nationalistic dictatorships with a streak of fascism.

I require explanation for the words you use to describe my country---even though myself don t like communist either . check in the website of CIA-world factbook , and see how US offically describe china, and chech the UN website. ask your own Ministry of Foreign Affairs, None of them can describe china like that!

 

[Waylander]

How would you describe the political system of China?

 

[ever4244]

we will

Would you start a war where your plan is build around the gamble if the US interferes or not?

Yes ,we would if taiwan was gong that far, you know , if our goverment fall to stop taiwan from independent , they will collapse as for sure . So far we support the communist goverment because they have the courage to stand our sovereignty , neither US nor soviet make it surrender( korea war and soviet -china border skirmish ). It s may sounds nationalism but for a country who empoly such great honor in the past and has been ravage by so many country in modern time , it s more important even than our lifes. let s just hope the economy bond taiwan , mainland and US together , and the war will not spark.

 

[Grand Danois]

I require explanation for the words you use to describe my country---even though myself don t like communist either . check in the website of CIA-world factbook , and see how US offically describe china, and chech the UN website. ask your own Ministry of Foreign Affairs, None of them can describe china like that!

There is no reason to get upset (well, it doesn't upset me). China officially describes itself as communist. However, the power structures, socioeconomic structures, and the way the regime legitimises itself, causes me to use such terms.

The reason why US, UN etc. refer to China as communist, is because that is what they have decided to name themselves, thus it becomes the official name. Such institutions are polite and use the official description.

 

[ever4244]

How would you describe the political system of China?

I have no right to comment on my motherland ,
but it s better than you thought, or i can t sit here enjoy the totally free intenational-web surf . i welcome you to come here and learn by yourself. daily life and study here is as troublesome as anywhere else in the world.

 

[icelord]

if you google tianaman square massacre, what result do you get?

 

[Grand Danois]

I have no right to comment on my motherland ,
but it s better than you thought, or i can t sit here enjoy the totally free intenational-web surf . i welcome you to come here and learn by yourself. daily life and study here is as troublesome as anywhere else in the world.

Btw, welcome to the forum. it is good to have people from all around the world here.

 

[ever4244]

if you google tianaman square massacre, what result do you get?

For that i don t like commusit, but if you investgate more fully, you ll find things did not turned out to be what western dramatically described. (i know elder people who experienced )
To err is human-being, to forgive is saint .
as long as things getting better and better and CCP can maintain our sovereignty .