How would pak. counter phalcon threat?
- Thread starter GoldenEagle
- Start date
The Watcher
New Member
If I am not wrong, ukrain already declined to sell those puppies to PAF. Maybe that has changed now? Any news on it guys?
DarthChorley
New Member
i read recently that the chinese were looking at creating a totally indigenous version of the j-11...and that they would look to export this version in the future ....however i also read that this version was at least 5 years away from production...
Interesting .... I read somewhere that Chinese J-10 is not for export and China will try to export FC-1 as much as possible in place of J-10. But I m not sure about it. Anyways, China is now making WS-10(??) engine for J-11 and it is possible that J-11 and FC-1 will be exported, and not the J-10.DarthChorley said:
I think the "move in fast, fire ur missiles and get outa there" is good. Very good... How about buying a Mig-25, arm it up and use its Mach 3 ability 4 a dash in and out?
(dont mind my over enthusiasm but everyone wants 2 shoot down an AWACS!!!)
(dont mind my over enthusiasm but everyone wants 2 shoot down an AWACS!!!)
Oqaab said:Hello favad,
welcome to the forum.
Comming back to the topic.
Plzzz provide a link regarding this FT-2000 upgrade. And if its range is extended to 150 kms, it will still not be able to counter Phalcons. I mean, there are chances but its just a SAM and SAMs miss targets more. FT-2000 was selected to counter aircrafts like Su-30MKI or there are some rumours about this missile that it can also be used as a ABM but it is still not confirmed.
Well ,,, you froget one this , Future version of Phalcon will also counter this threat , it will armed with jammers aslo which jam the GPS signels ......of the immcoming missile .
Aircraft can Jam Sams.(that rhymes pretty well). And Phalcons can do it pretty well. There taking over the canberras role in EW in the IAF.
Yeah dude...am here.Oqaab said:
Well of course aircrafts deploy counter measures against SAMs and try to jam them. All depends on the type of missile heading your way...could be radar guided, IR guided...etc. and this dictates what kind of countermeasures are deployed.
Read my article at the following URL:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_616.shtml
Sometime when i tell you things i think i banging my hrad against wall ...
Friends got complete information about armaments ,. don;t u ever heard of Infrared jammers ?
or about anti -anti radiation missiles ?just like flares which project aircraft from heat seaking missiles.
or about Ionnisation ?
IAF think one step ahead, thats why it takes long to get deal ,, IAF want make sure that deal is the best armed wiht all avaliable technology.
Friends got complete information about armaments ,. don;t u ever heard of Infrared jammers ?
or about anti -anti radiation missiles ?just like flares which project aircraft from heat seaking missiles.
or about Ionnisation ?
IAF think one step ahead, thats why it takes long to get deal ,, IAF want make sure that deal is the best armed wiht all avaliable technology.
I think AWACS killers like the Chinese FT-2000 or the Russian KS-172 AAM-L which have ranges in excess of 400 kms are a good way of countering the threat of the Phalcons.
The missiles having passive seekers and home on jam modes will be very difficult to jam. Only solutions could be that
1) The AWACS turns its radar off and engage in evasive manouvres. This will be exactly what the opponent want....no radar coverage which can give its fighters time to swoop in.
2) Use towed decoys. Which I must say cannot be very effective since the AWACS would have to turn its huge EM emitting radar off anyways.
So I think such anti radiation missiles with huge ranges and passive seekers are the way to go for an airforce which wants to counter an AWACS armed opponent.
The missiles having passive seekers and home on jam modes will be very difficult to jam. Only solutions could be that
1) The AWACS turns its radar off and engage in evasive manouvres. This will be exactly what the opponent want....no radar coverage which can give its fighters time to swoop in.
2) Use towed decoys. Which I must say cannot be very effective since the AWACS would have to turn its huge EM emitting radar off anyways.
So I think such anti radiation missiles with huge ranges and passive seekers are the way to go for an airforce which wants to counter an AWACS armed opponent.
The major factor is what money is available to spend on a solution. The ideal solution is one that is integrated - and a counter to an airborne array system will be expensive.
1) Long range air launched interceptors
2) Satellite controlled final delivery (if poss with the weapon system)
3) Long range tracking systems
4) Long range SAMs
Any of these in isolation provide a level of response, as an intetgrated solution - on an order of magnitude - they become tipping point solutions.
1) Long range air launched interceptors
2) Satellite controlled final delivery (if poss with the weapon system)
3) Long range tracking systems
4) Long range SAMs
Any of these in isolation provide a level of response, as an intetgrated solution - on an order of magnitude - they become tipping point solutions.
Gangsternation
New Member
[Admin Edit: Try to put some sense and volume in your replies. Make sense. :idea2 Explain the WHY, HOWs, etc. ]
mysterious
New Member
any of u read this article lately?
Pakistan Looking To Acquire FT-2000 "AWACS Killers"
October 19, 2003: Confirming China's acquiescence to support Pakistan in dealing with the strategic challenge posed by Indo-Israel military collaboration, reliable European defence experts have claimed that Chinese "AWACS Killers" would play a key role in Pakistan's strategy to counter Indo-Israel Phalcon deal.
FT-2000 commonly known as "AWACS Killers", surface to air missile (SAM), designed by Chinese experts are considered to be the most appropriate option, if the USA refuses to provide the same kind of "AWACS" to Pakistan which are being sold to India by Israel under the approval of Washington. "Pakistan is also considering a project to produce FT-2000 "AWACS Killers" type of missiles, indigenously", claimed an expert requesting anonymity. Pakistan and China are equally concerned over the India-Israel Phalcon deal concluded with Washington's acquiescence and are of the view that the transfer of AWACS technology to India would challenge the delicate conventional military equilibrium in South Asia, disturbing the no win situation which guarantees peace in the region.
"High level consultations between Beijing and Islamabad on the Indo-Israel Phalcon deal are in progress as both Pakistan and China, through diplomatic channels, have conveyed to the international community that they would counter the Indian move of acquiring Israeli Phalcon Radar System", a European defence expert monitoring the AWACS related developments told.
Indian clarification that it will use the Phalcons in only 'Kargil type of intrusions' has failed to assuage authorities in Beijing, who believe that the India-Israel-Russia Il-76-Phalcon deal is deleterious for regional peace as Phalcons are force-multipliers and would dramatically alter the conventional weapons balance in the region. Pakistani Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat's statement on Pakistani endeavours to counter the India-Israeli Phalcon Radar System deal and his claim that 'the nation would hear good news by June 30, 2004' has been interpreted by European experts in the context of the perceived Pak-China cooperation on this issue.
The European experts indicate that Pakistan may take the same option followed by China when the USA vetoed the Israeli decision to provide AWACS to China. China had warned Israel that its decision to cancel the sale of an advanced airborne radar system could hurt bilateral relations. But Israel bowed to American pressure in July 2000 and scrapped a $250m deal to sell China a Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS). The US administration, according to the defence source, have indicated that they would help Pakistan in countering the conventional weapons imbalance affected in the region by India-Israel Phalcon deal only if the congress agrees to such a proposal. Analysts here believe that the US congress seems to be in no mood, however, to assent to any of such proposal tabled by the administration.
Admin Edit: Links please!
Pakistan Looking To Acquire FT-2000 "AWACS Killers"
October 19, 2003: Confirming China's acquiescence to support Pakistan in dealing with the strategic challenge posed by Indo-Israel military collaboration, reliable European defence experts have claimed that Chinese "AWACS Killers" would play a key role in Pakistan's strategy to counter Indo-Israel Phalcon deal.
FT-2000 commonly known as "AWACS Killers", surface to air missile (SAM), designed by Chinese experts are considered to be the most appropriate option, if the USA refuses to provide the same kind of "AWACS" to Pakistan which are being sold to India by Israel under the approval of Washington. "Pakistan is also considering a project to produce FT-2000 "AWACS Killers" type of missiles, indigenously", claimed an expert requesting anonymity. Pakistan and China are equally concerned over the India-Israel Phalcon deal concluded with Washington's acquiescence and are of the view that the transfer of AWACS technology to India would challenge the delicate conventional military equilibrium in South Asia, disturbing the no win situation which guarantees peace in the region.
"High level consultations between Beijing and Islamabad on the Indo-Israel Phalcon deal are in progress as both Pakistan and China, through diplomatic channels, have conveyed to the international community that they would counter the Indian move of acquiring Israeli Phalcon Radar System", a European defence expert monitoring the AWACS related developments told.
Indian clarification that it will use the Phalcons in only 'Kargil type of intrusions' has failed to assuage authorities in Beijing, who believe that the India-Israel-Russia Il-76-Phalcon deal is deleterious for regional peace as Phalcons are force-multipliers and would dramatically alter the conventional weapons balance in the region. Pakistani Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat's statement on Pakistani endeavours to counter the India-Israeli Phalcon Radar System deal and his claim that 'the nation would hear good news by June 30, 2004' has been interpreted by European experts in the context of the perceived Pak-China cooperation on this issue.
The European experts indicate that Pakistan may take the same option followed by China when the USA vetoed the Israeli decision to provide AWACS to China. China had warned Israel that its decision to cancel the sale of an advanced airborne radar system could hurt bilateral relations. But Israel bowed to American pressure in July 2000 and scrapped a $250m deal to sell China a Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS). The US administration, according to the defence source, have indicated that they would help Pakistan in countering the conventional weapons imbalance affected in the region by India-Israel Phalcon deal only if the congress agrees to such a proposal. Analysts here believe that the US congress seems to be in no mood, however, to assent to any of such proposal tabled by the administration.
Admin Edit: Links please!
Gangsternation
New Member
if the Phalcon let say resides in india while covering large quantities of pakistani airspace....and if the F-2000 can not reach it from pakistan, then on the event of war, my guess is a speacialised mobile F-2000 can be used, this would obviosly mean pakistan gaining ground in india to shoot the bugger down.
U cannot shoot down anything over another countries airspace, hence the notion of war must be in place for any shooting down of awacs.
Another idea just sprung to mind, but would require the usage of a very small UAV that the phalcon would not be able to detect. Imagine a very small, or even a stealth UAV which carries a small compact Air to Air missile, this would be more then sufficient to take down awacs. Bottom dollar says the US is building a stealth UAV. -wingz
U cannot shoot down anything over another countries airspace, hence the notion of war must be in place for any shooting down of awacs.
Another idea just sprung to mind, but would require the usage of a very small UAV that the phalcon would not be able to detect. Imagine a very small, or even a stealth UAV which carries a small compact Air to Air missile, this would be more then sufficient to take down awacs. Bottom dollar says the US is building a stealth UAV. -wingz