how about leonidas,the spartan.who fended off 250000 persians with his 4000 greeks for 4 days at thermopylae???later when he was outflanked(courtesy a greek traitor)he sent back most of other greeks leaving just the 300 spartans.they repulsed attack upon attack from 10000 persians(their best troops-"the immortals")before sheer superiority of opponents numbers caught up with them.persians won that engagement with 4000 dead.but it was a decisive stand made by leonidas,as it pumped up greek morale and resulted in subsequent persian defeat at plateae.he showed to the world what a small disciplined battle hardened force could do against a much larger force.that may have been inspiration to alexander who defeated darius-3 with 30000 men against 120000.
Great Commanders in History
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Not to detract from Leonidas' effort. But it has been a popular urban myth to continue to extol the virtues of the spartans. Yes, there were 300 of them, but there were also 700-900 Greek retainers etc who refused to leave them as well. The Greeks (who were not soldiers, but just ordinary impressed villagers) also had the opportunity to flee before contact - and they didn't.neel24neo said:
I would agree with most of that but the 4000 "persians" that died were really slave troops (arabs) who really didn want to be there. The only real army trained troops were the immortals and as you mentioned once they got involved the battle was over. An dont forget theuniforms of the two armys, the "persian" troops had no armour whatsoever while the greeks were covered with metal. Also the conditions were all great for the greeks because no matter how large the persian army the were at a bottle neck and at most twenty-thirty could have passed.neel24neo said:
alexandros_gre_2004
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I would like to inform you that when Xerxes saw the small amount of people there were closing his road, ordered then his immortals to arrest them and bring them in front of him. But immortals couldn't stand against the long hellenic spears and the short swords of spartans which in their hands were extremely lethal, so they finally went off. three times the persians attacked with the same way but they couldn't beat them. So finally one trator saw to the Persians a small path around the mount. Until the morning the 300 spartans and the rest of the army were almost surrounded, so leonidas ordered the army which was consisted of almost 8000 people to leave for their citys in order to fight the persians there, but he hold his 300 spartans 400 thebians and almost 700 thespians. When they were surrounded at all, the hellenic troops went to the top of a hill in order to give the final battle.Then they made a cyrcle in order to face as many persians was possible. But the persians couldn't kill them with their swords so they send them a cloud of arrows, the result? all dead. And something else, Leonidas took an order from Sparta, to come back alive and winner or not to come back alive and loser so he chosed to die with all his Spartans.Sep said:
alexandros_gre_2004
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alexandros_gre_2004 said:it is because you told us in a previous message that the hellenic troops were iron covered, the persians probably knew it so they had to be more prepared if the wanted to beat them.Sep said:
alexandros_gre_2004 said:
alexandros_gre_2004
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And you have also to know that the persians burned twice the city of Athens when they came in Hellas, a city which was without citizens because all of the residents learned about Mardoniu's army and they moved to Salamina. You have also to know that the persians army destroyed and killed all of the residents of a city which was called Eretria. Also, Alexander the great burned Persrepolis in order to have a revence for the atheneans and for all the hellenics cities that suffered so many things from the invantion of the persian army. You have also to know that when Alexander caught the family of Darius, after the battle of Gaugamila, he treated them as a king family not as slaves. Also when the persians found the camp with the injured greek soldiers they killed them all. So Alexander the great had many reasons to burn Persepolis. And something else when Xerxes found the dead Leonidas after the battle of Therompylae, ordered to cut his head and to put it on a stick, but after the battle of Marathon where the Atheneans with the Plateans beated the persian army, they ordered the rest of the persians to bury their dead persians soldiers with honours. Something that also Alexander the great used to do after a battle.Sep said:
Admin: Please take care when you perform quotes within your replies. I have fixed up your reply.
alexandros_gre_2004
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1st Post)
By the way, I am a hellenic guy so I am very well informed about all this stuff!
2nd Post)
fieldmarshal you have also to know that macedonia is a part of greece just like athens or sparta, so it is greek too. you have also to know that the nations there is now and want to be called ''MACEDONIA'' is a nation of peple that they came and stayed a little bit norther from they real macedonia many centuries after the victorys of alexander the great
3rd Post)
who is the admin here?
By the way, I am a hellenic guy so I am very well informed about all this stuff!
2nd Post)
fieldmarshal you have also to know that macedonia is a part of greece just like athens or sparta, so it is greek too. you have also to know that the nations there is now and want to be called ''MACEDONIA'' is a nation of peple that they came and stayed a little bit norther from they real macedonia many centuries after the victorys of alexander the great
3rd Post)
who is the admin here?
alexandros_gre_2004
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Admin: Please do NOT daisychain responses when you can edit them into the one post. It makes it looks as though you are just posting to build up your tally count.
Please learn how to use the editing function as well. I have had to fix up 4 posts now.
Please learn how to use the editing function as well. I have had to fix up 4 posts now.
fieldmarshal
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Re: Great Commanders
alexandros i can tell by ur post that ur a greek and hence cant accept the reality that greece and macedonia are 2 distinct entities. This fact has been amply demostrated by the US govt. which has decided to recognize mecodonia as a seperate entity/country from greece and the recognition of the mecadonian flag & also the usage of the words "Republic of Mecedonia" in all offical US documents and all bilateral documents. SO wake up man as preteding like an ostrige wont make the storm go away
[Mod edit: Please refrain from making direct attacks.]
alexandros i can tell by ur post that ur a greek and hence cant accept the reality that greece and macedonia are 2 distinct entities. This fact has been amply demostrated by the US govt. which has decided to recognize mecodonia as a seperate entity/country from greece and the recognition of the mecadonian flag & also the usage of the words "Republic of Mecedonia" in all offical US documents and all bilateral documents. SO wake up man as preteding like an ostrige wont make the storm go away
[Mod edit: Please refrain from making direct attacks.]
alexandros_gre_2004
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Re: Great Commanders
And my friend, this is you that you have to wake up!!!!!!!:
if you want to know more about macedonia just visit this site http://truth.macedonia.gr/fieldmarshal said:alexandros i can tell by ur post that ur a greek and hence cant accept the reality that greece and macedonia are 2 distinct entities. This fact has been amply demostrated by the US govt. which has decided to recognize mecodonia as a seperate entity/country from greece and the recognition of the mecadonian flag & also the usage of the words "Republic of Mecedonia" in all offical US documents and all bilateral documents. SO wake up man as preteding like an ostrige wont make the storm go away
[Mod edit: Please refrain from making direct attacks.]
And my friend, this is you that you have to wake up!!!!!!!
:Re: Great Commanders
Back to the topic of "Great Commanders", perhaps we might wish to state the scope and criteria of what defines a great commander e.g. tactics, innovative application of technology etc. And also time frames in relevance to their battles and achievements?
Could we also leave the hero-worshipping and chest thumping at home for the kids and concentrate more on how these commanders think and what makes them tick?
Let me start the ball by asking for some of the great ancient world commanders or strategists and with reference and material to support such claims. By ancient world, I meant ancient Rome, China, Mesopotamia etc.
Once again, just the facts and leave the rabid vitriol at the door, thank you.
Back to the topic of "Great Commanders", perhaps we might wish to state the scope and criteria of what defines a great commander e.g. tactics, innovative application of technology etc. And also time frames in relevance to their battles and achievements?
Could we also leave the hero-worshipping and chest thumping at home for the kids and concentrate more on how these commanders think and what makes them tick?
Let me start the ball by asking for some of the great ancient world commanders or strategists and with reference and material to support such claims. By ancient world, I meant ancient Rome, China, Mesopotamia etc.
Once again, just the facts and leave the rabid vitriol at the door, thank you.
alexandros_gre_2004
New Member
Re: Great Commanders
[edited]
[edited]
No no, this won't do. You must present the feats of Hannibal e.g. the wide flanking operational march through the Italian Alps, his tactics during the annihilation of the Romans Legions at Cannae etc and any facts to back it up.Pendekar said:
Incidentally, he was defeated by another Great Commander of his time, Scipio Africanus, who hoist Hannibal with his own petard ie taking the fight to Carthage.
edit:
one of many information links on Hannibal Barca.
Re: Great Commanders
If people just add links you will find that the majority of people will not be bothered responding as it does not stimulate or provide an incentive for debate.
We're interested in why people think some of these commanders are deserving of the title - not just because a web site has "all of" your answers.
Pendeakar, we prefer people to make comments outlining with their own words + supporting links.Pendekar said:
If people just add links you will find that the majority of people will not be bothered responding as it does not stimulate or provide an incentive for debate.
We're interested in why people think some of these commanders are deserving of the title - not just because a web site has "all of" your answers.
Re: Great Commanders
Another good source of information on Hannibal and his career can be found at : http://phoenicia.org/punicwar.html. A personal observation is the webmaster's or owner's preamble about the Phoenician's origins suspected Semitic origins and it not being open to dispute. Overall quite a good read.
If you were to move your mouse over the words "Hannibal Barca" in my earlier post, you will find its the same link.Pendekar said:
Another good source of information on Hannibal and his career can be found at : http://phoenicia.org/punicwar.html. A personal observation is the webmaster's or owner's preamble about the Phoenician's origins suspected Semitic origins and it not being open to dispute. Overall quite a good read.
Re: Great Commanders
Next would be his great flanking operation up through the Straits of Gibraltar into Spain and over the Alps. At that time, it must be a logistics nightmare and I believe his army would have been depleted and demoralised. To keep his army intact at the end of such an ordeal speak volumes of his charisma and command presence.
Any comments or interest in discussing Hannibal's exploits? It would be nice if there is a similar study on his "student", Scipio Africanus.
Well said. Since we are on the subject of Hannibal for the moment, allow me to make this observation on his early formative years. It is interesting to note that his father, Hamilcar Barca indoctrinated him and instilled in him such a hate for Rome. In most of the commanders or generals who have made their mark in history, I believe few can match this part of Hannibal.gf0012-aust said:
Next would be his great flanking operation up through the Straits of Gibraltar into Spain and over the Alps. At that time, it must be a logistics nightmare and I believe his army would have been depleted and demoralised. To keep his army intact at the end of such an ordeal speak volumes of his charisma and command presence.
Any comments or interest in discussing Hannibal's exploits? It would be nice if there is a similar study on his "student", Scipio Africanus.
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