German Navy: Third Combat Support Ship instead of F125-Frigates?

[Grand Danois]

I read that they're offsets for the U214... Also seems that MONARC didn't work out that well.

 

[Mangusta CBT]

I read that they're offsets for the U214... Also seems that MONARC didn't work out that well.

Italy buy U212

 

[Mangusta CBT]

Why the : ?

I have add a random smile

 

[Waylander]

They paid for the U212A already so I don't think so.

And yes, the fact that navalizing pzh2000 155mm and MLRS is more difficult and expensive than expected, is part of the article.

Very good news in my eyes and a good step forward to a real multimission F125 and not some dubious land support ship.

 

[Grand Danois]

Italy buy U212

Oh! That's right.

They paid for the U212A already so I don't think so.

And yes, the fact that navalizing pzh2000 155mm and MLRS is more difficult and expensive than expected, is part of the article.

Very good news in my eyes and a good step forward to a real multimission F125 and not some dubious land support ship.

IIRC the Vulcano is also used on the Dutch LCF. Re the offset, this is a Googletranslation of above article.

...guns 127 LW- Volcano for the new German frigates F125”.

The Undersecretary of Defense Lorenzo Forcieri has announced today that from part of the Germany 127 LW- have been accepted the proposal for the supply of the guns Volcano, produced from the Oto Melara, that they will come installs to you on the new German frigates F125.

“In the course of my recent visit in Germany, I have emphasized the problem of the store clerks of the Oto in the course of the encounter had with my homologous German, Peter Eickenboom. I have placed with force that gives German part was the adapted compensations for the huge investments that Italy is making in Germany on programs that regard the submarines and other weapon systems. My demand was supported from the fact that the Oto Melara is the company leader of the field and that its products are to the vanguard and of absolute excellence”, has declared Forcieri.

The guns will be therefore Italian mount to you on the five German frigates. The value of the store clerk goes from the 70 to 100 million euro. In the within of the same program 12,7 Hitrole-NT has been also selected the naval turret to remote control. The amount of the contract is gone around on 10 million euro.

“Moreover - Forcieri has declared - to the Oto they will come also entrusted the jobs of suit refitting and modernization of the guns currently in use on the old F124 frigates in equipment to German Navy”.

The contracts will come signed to september, after that the program for the new F125 frigates definitively will be approved of from the Bundestag.

“They are satisfied that this long negotiation has been concluded positively for our national industry. This happening, beyond to being the demonstration of the level of competitiveness caught up from the companies of the comparto defended of our Country, will assure to the Oto an important quota job for the next years. And other negotiations, than we augur ourselves can anch' they go to good aim, are in course”, has said Forcieri.

 

[Waylander]

Ah, okay maybe I missunderstood you.

I thought you mean that the OTOs are part of the payment for the subs but it looks like it is more like "we bought your toys so you should also buy our toys".

This here is a little bit irritating:

Moreover - Forcieri has declared - to the Oto they will come also entrusted the jobs of suit refitting and modernization of the guns currently in use on the old F124 frigates in equipment to German Navy”.

The F124s are shiny new...

 

[Grand Danois]

Ah, okay maybe I missunderstood you.

I thought you mean that the OTOs are part of the payment for the subs but it looks like it is more like "we bought your toys so you should also buy our toys".

This here is a little bit irritating:

The F124s are shiny new...

Yes, I noticed that too, but thought it was used as relative compared to the "new" F125.

 

[Waylander]

But I doubt that our navy even thought about upgrading and refitting the guns of the F124. I mean they are nearly right out of the yard.

I think it is just a typo and they mean F123.

 

[Grand Danois]

But I doubt that our navy even thought about upgrading and refitting the guns of the F124. I mean they are nearly right out of the yard.

I think it is just a typo and they mean F123.

Or it could mean "refitting and modernization" of the 76 mm guns on the F124? Methinks that is it.

Do they currently use the Compact or the Super Rapid. Facetted shielding (cupola) is another possibility. Upgrade to DAVIDE?

 

[Waylander]

Compact if I remember correctly.

I also thought about an upgrade but why haven't they installed what they wanted some month ago when the last F124 hit the water?
And the "old" in the sentence just makes me wonder.

I still bet on a typo.

Anyway, time will tell...

 

[contedicavour]

I agree it sounds like a typo - F123 more likely.

Anyway, at long last we are trying to make our defence industries more efficient by identifying areas of expertise. I'll make myself clear : we (italians) leave land artillery to the Germans who are clearly more experienced, and them (germans) leave us ship based artillery. At least we have economies of scale working and our respective taxpayers get more for their money.

Regarding the offsets for U212A, the article doesn't mention them specifically, but it does say that after several joint programmes where German defence industry is leading (U212A is an example), our undersecretary of defence has negotiated a programme where our industry leads.

Last remark : Oto Melara is doing a superb job of reinforcing its global leadership in naval artillery over competitors such as Bofors. Guided munitions are clearly the future.

cheers

 

[orko_8]

MONARC integration as well as GMLRS seem to be abandoned...

From defence-aerospace:

OTO Melara Wins Major Naval Order from Germany for 127LW Guns


(Source: Città della Spezia; issued April 3, 2007)


(Issued in Italian; unofficial translation by defense-aerospace.com)



LA SPEZIA, Italy --- Italian Undersecretary of Defence Lorenzo Forcieri announced today that Germany has accepted an offer for the supply of 127 LW Vulcano cannons, produced by OTO Melara, for the German Navy’s new F125 frigates.

“During my recent visit to Germany, I discussed the issue of OTO’s offer with my German counterpart, Peter Eickenboom. I stressed that Germany must adequately compensate the major investment that Italy is making in German submarines and related weapon systems. My argument was bolstered by the fact that OTO Melara is the world leader in the naval artillery sector, and that its leading-edge products attain an absolute level of excellence,” Forcieri said.

The five German frigates will thus be fitted with Italian main guns. The order is valued at 70 to 100 million euros. For the same ships, Germany has also selected the remotely-controlled 12.7 Hitrole-NT machine-gun stations, for a contract valued at 10 million euros.

“Furthermore,” said Forcieri, “OTO will also be awarded the refitting and upgrade contract for the guns in service on the older F124-class frigates of the German Navy.”

The contracts are to be signed in September, once the funding for the F125 frigates has been approved by the Bundestag.

“I am pleased that these long negotiations have been concluded to the satisfaction of our industry. This success, in addition to demonstrating the high degree of competitiveness of our country’s defence industry, will provide OTO with a significant workload over the coming years. And other contracts, that I hope will also be successfully concluded, are also being negotiated,” Forcieri concluded.

 

[Waylander]

You are aware of what we are talking aboutg, aren't you?

 

[orko_8]

You are aware of what we are talking aboutg, aren't you?

Excuse me if I have missed the obvious, haven't slept for about 40 hours :crazy


edit: I have indeed missed the obvious :mad Mods please delete my last two messages, my apologies..

 

[Grand Danois]

Excuse me if I have missed the obvious, haven't slept for about 40 hours :crazy


edit: I have indeed missed the obvious :mad Mods please delete my last two messages, my apologies..

Don't think it should be deleted; you provided a proper translation of the article - less confusion. Though not as far as the "old F124s" are concerned.

 

[Mangusta CBT]

In my opinion GMLRS could be good in little and fast ship for support amphibious operation, if i dont mistake LCS will have a MLRS system.

 

[B.Smitty]

In my opinion GMLRS could be good in little and fast ship for support amphibious operation, if i dont mistake LCS will have a MLRS system.

LCS won't have an MLRS. There has been talk of equipping it with Netfires as part of the ASuW module, but that's still a ways off.

 

[Waylander]

BTW, 70-100 million € for five guns?
Are those guns really that expensive?

For this amount of money you get a company of Leopard 2A6EX with all shiny gadgets.

 

[Grand Danois]

BTW, 70-100 million € for five guns?
Are those guns really that expensive?

For this amount of money you get a company of Leopard 2A6EX with all shiny gadgets.

For comparison, the Danish Navy coughed up 15 million dollars apiece for refurbed second-hand 127 mm Mk45 Mod 4. And that was cheap!

 

[kato]

If they're really getting the 127mm LW with the full Vulcano support, that'll also be a decent part of the money. Especially since, if you look at introduction and development dates, we're looking at the guided 40nm-range dedicated anti-ship and land-attack version of Vulcano.