Future of Russian Military

[Wall83]

Well the year of 2008 is coming to its end and not much has happend with the Russian armed forces.
The first Borei class submarine has finaly had its reactor started up and may, after almost 13 years in building, go to sea trails by the end of the year .
http://russianforces.org/blog/2008/11/yury_dolgorukys_reactor_is_on.shtml
No word about any new fighters this years (what a suprise) and the total number of new ICBMs will probaly bee around 6-8.
The latest news about the new T-95 tank is that it will be deliverd after the year 2010. The new PAK-FA stealth fighter are planed to make its first flight next years...well lets just see about that.
No new frigats, SSKs, SSNs, destroyers or cruiser has joined the forces this year.

Any comments on this?

 

[SkolZkiy]

For latest several years putting in service new arms is not shown as publicly as it was.
About Borey the problem was not with the sub the problem was with nave ICBMs Bulava - don't you think that it would be stupid to put on service strategic sub without ICBMs?? more then this at first Borei was being built not for Bulava but for BARK (this project was closed) and constructors had to reconfig and rebuilt sub according to new missile.
If you don't see some news in the web it doesn't mean that there nothing happens

 

[Wall83]

Well it depens how you look on it. China has launched atleast 2 Type-094 ssbn without having any new SLBM to arm it with.

 

[SkolZkiy]

May be it is right but during this years Borei was modified and if you don't know there already two Borei's in produce =) first was started in 2004 and second in 2006. they must be put in service in 2010 year =)

 

[Wall83]

Yes i know that two more boreis are under construction. But I dont think they will be in the water by 2010.
If they finaly get the Bulava in working order by 2009 they problably test it on the Yuiry for some time. And we should remember that they must produce 16 missiles to each submarine. So no more then one submarine a year will get a full complement of SLBMs. That meens that it will take atleast to 2011-2013 before three Boreis will be fully armed och operational.

 

[Feanor]

Wall83 you obviously don't pay very close attention to the Russian military. The Bulava has had a fully successful test flight, serial production of the missile has started, and there are rumors of another test flight before the end of this year. I also found an article which says that UVZ has completed their portion of the state defense order early, so that means two T-90A btlns. Skolzkiy is right though, they have been keeping increasingly quiet about defense procurement recently, this year in particular.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=63529&cid=25

 

[Wall83]

Yes I know they had two launches of the Baluva in 2008. One in september that had some problems with the warheads seperation. The second in late November seems to have been a success but it problably have many test launches left before it gets put on active duty.
I have not heard anything about a serial production, and it seems very stupid to me to start production of an missile that still hasent been fully tested and have failed during fifty procents of its launches. Why build missiles that have 50/50 chance of working??

 

[Feanor]

Serial production has been started.

http://rian.ru/analytics/20070807/70518239.html

 

[Wall83]

Hm well i dont read russian that well but okey. If then the "serial" production has started over a year and a half ago they should have several dozens of missiles ready? If not that serial production is the same as the one for the Su-34, then its about two missiles a year .

 

[Feanor]

Who said anything about over a year and a half ago. Serial production has just been started this month.

 

[SkolZkiy]

About another test flight till the end of this - this was said by vice-primeminister Sergei Ivanov. About SU-34 there are 10 planes building right now and 3 of them were put on service OFFICIALLY. BUt as i said before NEW INFO ON PUTTING NEW ARMS IN SERVICE IS NOT PUBLISHED for last half-year =)

 

[nevidimka]

Huh? did I get that right? the Bulava is in production already? That after 1 Total launch success??

 

[harryriedl]

Huh? did I get that right? the Bulava is in production already? That after 1 Total launch success??

agree seems odd that its had such a patchy sucess rate that they have put in production. It would make sense to keep on testing it as it is primary nuke tride. You would want 100% sucess rate as you are reling on SSBN as the primary or second strike wepond you would want reliblity

 

[Dalregementet]

I would say a joke! The russians tries to maintain a too large army, mainly made up of antique equipment so they waste the few resources they have on old junk. Procurement of new equipment goes slow so the deterioration of the russian armed forces are accelarating. Just look at the performance in the georgian war, look how the russian soldiers behaved - undisciplined and unproffessional. The equipment was old, no night vision capability and no UAVs to just mention a few issues.

I think the russian army has lots of problems to deal with... alcohol and corruption just to mention a few.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaaP7bQglcU"]YouTube - drunk russian soldier drives tank[/ame]

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Wow that video is something else.:nutkick I don't understand Russian but I can picture the owners of that store mad as hell that a tank drove throw the wall.

On a side note I wounder if the record low or almost record low oil prices might have a negative impact on the modernization of the Russian Military.

 

[Feanor]

About another test flight till the end of this - this was said by vice-primeminister Sergei Ivanov. About SU-34 there are 10 planes building right now and 3 of them were put on service OFFICIALLY. BUt as i said before NEW INFO ON PUTTING NEW ARMS IN SERVICE IS NOT PUBLISHED for last half-year =)

Do you have a link to a source that a third Su-34 has indeed been completed? I recall reading that 10 are in assembly on rian.ru but nothing about a third one. I assumed that those ten will be added to the two currently at the Lipetsk training center to form the first squadron.

Dalregementet I agree to some extent, however there is a rather major downsizing and reformatting under way as we speak. The army will lose over 100 000 men, and will see the disbanding of all the "cadre" units.

As for Bulava serial run, time will tell.

 

[SkolZkiy]

damn =)) Sory guys not 3 but of course 2. wrong button =))

About reducing the size of RuA - during the last real-time interview on TV Vladimir Putin explained that nodody will br fired from service before his but they won't renew contracts with most officers who are to retire up to 2010 year and those officers who came after universities.

read this or translate

Путин: Я рассчитываю на то, что все преобразования, которые намечены и будут осуществляться в вооруженных силах, повлияют на обороноспособность, но в лучшую сторону. Будут укреплять обороноспособность государства. Ради этого все и делается.

Что касается увольнений, о которых вы сказали, никаких массовых увольнений не планируется. Более того, в 2009 году увольняться будут только те офицеры, которые выслужили соответствующие сроки службы. Это первая категория. Вторая категория - это офицеры, которые были призваны после военных кафедр по договорам на два года. И срок этих договоров истекает. Значит, что касается, что касается прапорщиков, то их просто не будут готовить вновь. Но те, кто хотят дослужить в таком качестве, имеют это право. Те, кто хотят перейти, по сути исполняя те же самые обязанности, но на гражданскую службу, а как правило это делается с повышением заработной платы, могут сделать этот выбор самостоятельно. Но, повторяю еще раз, те, кто служат в качестве прапорщиков, их никто не собирается увольнять только за то, что они прапорщики. Так что эти опасения, они лишены оснований. Если же будут появляться какие-то перегибы в этом смысле, будут появляться, всплывать вещи, которые не планировались, но возникают, то тогда мы на это будем реагировать, я даже ни на секунду не сомневаюсь.

Что касается обеспечения жильем. В течение 2010 года все офицеры должны быть обеспечены постоянным жильем, а к 2012 году, в 2012 году, все военнослужащие, вооруженные силы, будут обеспечены служебным жильем. Темп, набранный в решении этой задачи, такой, что дает нам полное основание считать, что поставленные задачи будут исполнены.

 

[Viktor]

I would say a joke! The russians tries to maintain a too large army, mainly made up of antique equipment so they waste the few resources they have on old junk. Procurement of new equipment goes slow so the deterioration of the russian armed forces are accelarating. Just look at the performance in the georgian war, look how the russian soldiers behaved - undisciplined and unproffessional. The equipment was old, no night vision capability and no UAVs to just mention a few issues.

I think the russian army has lots of problems to deal with... alcohol and corruption just to mention a few.

YouTube - drunk russian soldier drives tank

Have you ever ask yourself a question. How did Russia destroyed Georgian 5 years nato/israel trained army in 3 days with all that "antique" equipment as you put it. Georgia had more man, batter tanks (israeli modernized), descent amount of artilery and nice airdefence with Upgraded Russian/Ukrnian and even Izrael airdefence system all networked. So??

I dont think that modernization of army is worde than buying new equipment as you can save a lot of money in comparison with brand new equipment and still be able to maintained 20 000 tanks strong force.

 

[ROCK45]

Battle field

We all knew how this short war would end the Georgian Armed Forces are tiny compared to Russia. I do not know who started it or who was wrong or right but the type of fighting that took place in my opinion was very 80s level.

I think Russia's Arm Forces showed they need better battle field awareness they seem to react more then have set goals.

I think Russia's battle doctrine is more Divisional based then Battalion based and I think showed in the close in fighting.

On a tactical level I think Russia could have done better. The Georgian air assets, naval assets, and strong points, should have been dealt with early on and at the same time, on a tactical level.

Viktor
Georgia had more man, batter tanks (israeli modernized), descent amount of artilery and nice airdefence with Upgraded Russian/Ukrnian and even Izrael airdefence system all networked. So??

I don't know how much of this is true "Georgia had more man" doesn't sound right to me. I don't know the level of training provided to the Georgians others here may know better. It's not like the US supplied PAC-3 and Block-52+ Vipers to them. Maybe Israel sold them some Spider SAM's I don't know but even if they did why didn't Russia take them out on a tactical level?

I'm not taking sides and don't really know started the war but military wise I think for a world power Russia should have dealt with Georgia on a tactical level better then they did, in 2008

 

[Feanor]

I don't recall any Israeli SAMs in Georgia. Nor was their IADS truly networked on any level. Nor were they a "NATO standards" army. However they did have the number advantage during most of the fighting. At least statements from Russian commanders are along the lines that initially the Georgians had a massive number advantage, and only towards the end of the conflict the numbers of deployed Russian troops began to match the numbers of Georgian forces.

However the Russian Army did not fight on a divisional level. This war was almost a proving ground for the new brigade concept of the Russian Army. It was fought by reinforced regimental tactical groupings (~brigade), iirc 5 of them, and superior air power. Recon and tactical cooperation between VVS and ground forces was bad, but did not have an effect on the overall outcome (other then causing some avoidable casualties).