Future of alternative fuels in the military

[Falstaff]

Sorry for double-posting, I submitted faster than I wanted.

Waylander will be able to confirm that here in germany and many parts of western europe among technicians the hybrid engine is considered to be somewhat of a marketing coup as a modern common rail turbo diesel engine still is waaaaaaaaaaaay better in terms of fuel consumption and power. Compare the new Lexus h and Mercedes CDI models for example.
The thing about the hybrid engine is, if you run it on high power for a long time, you don't have that big advantage (besides, 50% is science fiction) in fuel consumption. And it is heavier and needs more space, if it is a "full hybrid", not the "electrical asssisted" type of engine. And if you mount the motors in the wheels you are increasing the weight of uncushioned mass with negative impacts on handling characteristics.
I think its military use is somewhat limited to the "shadow"-role (see above). The advantage is you can run on "noiseless" e-motors for a short period.
But for MBTs etc.? I don't think so.
I think that despite all problems and difficulties the fuel cell coupled with full electric drive will be the drive train of choice. Ok, you have the fuel handling problem and massive heat radiation (appr. as much heat as power, says our local professor), but give it another 10-15 years.

 

[Waylander]

Jup, this is the problem.
Current "classic" turobodiesels with common rail technology are just more overall effective than every other system if it comes to military use in vehicles. And even when it comes to noise it is possible to make it very quiet.
Take the Fennek scout as an example. This one is really quiet. I was really impressed by it when I first saw it in real.

 

[Rish]

Granted this thread is a little old, but I was wondering if there were any recent developments. Either in terms of alternate fuels (aside from petroleum based fuels) or work on alternate/hybrid engines for ground vehicles. So far, aside from some testing, I haven't heard for a military vehicle having been fitted with an HEV engine.

Also, can anyone tell me the approximate ratio for distances travels by a vehicle powered by a tank of diesel and a tank of alcohol (ethanol or methanol)?

-Thanks

There was an article last month on defencetalk about how the air force is testing alternative fuels on its b-52s, but i was to lazy to put it up. at this point they are using a combination of the alternative fuel and jet fuel. i can't remember the name of the alternative fuel, but if i remember or find the article i'll get back to you.

 

[Rish]

sorry for the double post, but heres the article:

B-52 tests alternative jet engine fuel

9/19/2006 - EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AFPN) -- The Air Force accomplished another aviation first when a B-52 Stratofortress flew using an alternative fuel Sept. 19.

The flight test involved running two of the bomber's engines on a synthetic fuel, made from a 50-50 blend of traditional crude oil-based fuel and a Fischer-Tropsch fuel derived from natural gas. The jet's other six engines ran on traditional JP-8 jet fuel.

Undersecretary of the Air Force Dr. Ronald M. Sega was on the mission as a crewmember.

"This test sets the stage for a more comprehensive plan the Air Force has toward conservation," he said. "This test fits into this overall vision and is the first step in a long process for looking at the viability of alternative fuels."

Maj. Gen. Curtis Bedke, Air Force Flight Test Center commander at the sprawling base, said, the fuel is one of many the Air Force is looking into.

"This test is aiding in creating options and alternatives to our current fuel," the general said.

Dr. Sega said the engines running on the synthetic fuel performed as well as the others. But he is still waiting for test analysis and the final test results.

If the test is successful, the next step will be to use the alternative fuel to perform an eight-engine test in a few months, General Bedke said.

Before the manned flight, the center tested the fuel to see how it reacted to aircraft parts. The fuel ran a T-63 engine during 130 hours of fuel testing. One of the engines was then taken off the B-52 and sent to Tinker Air Force Base, Okla., where it went through a 50-hour continuous alternative fuel run.

The engines ware reinstalled into the bomber and ground tested before the test flight.

After going through the testing here, the alternative fuel left in the bomber's fuel tanks is scheduled to undergo cold-weather testing in January or February.

Although the Fischer-Tropsch fuel demonstration flight was successfully completed, it was cut short due to a mechanical issue with the B-52's left wing-tip landing gear, which was unrelated to the alternative fuel test. The aircraft landed safely without incident.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123027415

 

[Simon9]

Granted this thread is a little old, but I was wondering if there were any recent developments. Either in terms of alternate fuels (aside from petroleum based fuels) or work on alternate/hybrid engines for ground vehicles. So far, aside from some testing, I haven't heard for a military vehicle having been fitted with an HEV engine.
-Thanks

I think I mentioned this earlier but I don't see any need for military vehicles to switch from diesel any time soon, and this is why: new technology capable of producing completely clean, sulphur-free diesel from coal.

The original technology was famously developed by the Germans in WWII - Allied bombing of the German synthetic fuel plants resulted in fierce aerial battles and eventually the Allies prevailed, virtually starving the Germans of fuel.

But new technology is capable of producing jet engine-quality fuels and sulphur-free diesel from coal, for substantially lower cost than distilling diesel from crude oil. I've worked on three different projects to do this and all are within a few years of full production, and best of all this process uses coal that is unrecoverable by conventional mining methods - meaning that there is probably three or four times more coal (at least) available for this than there is for mining - and there is enough coal for mining to last many hundreds of years yet. In short, we are probably several hundred years away from running out of cheap diesel.

 

[rossfrb_1]

This may be of interest to some.
I remember reading about the UK army acquiring diesel powered motorbikes because they wanted a 'one fuel for all army', a quick google threw up
http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/4272/
http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/university/press/2004/03112004.cfm
and numerous other sites.
these urls suggest that the USMC may be at the forefront (with 550 ordered).
Anyone know how this is progressing?
Lastly, does anyone know what the ADF M1s are running on (diesel)?

rb